OT was letting both Talib and Revis sign elsewhere a good decision?

[Bruins29]

Revis was a great player for us, a key reason we won the Super Bowl last year.
.

That is great. Maybe we can have a cake for him when the Jets come to town. I have an idea, instead of living in the past how about giving some credit to our "depleted" secondary who at this point has better points and pass yards allowed than last years team.......oh who by the way were 3-2 at this point in the season not 5-0 like our "shrimp/depleted" secondary has us.

 

[patfanken]

Some comments on the comments:

1. Every time you want to ask a question similar to the OP, repeat this 3 times. "the first rule of capology is for every dollar you give one player there is one less dollar to give everyone else."

2. Remember that within common sense the Pats spend to the higher limits of the cap. So when you speculate if we should have kept Revis or Talib, you also have to ask who that is currently on the team would you choose to take off the team.

3. I think it should be clear by now that Revis was NEVER coming back here. The Pats gave Revis a very reasonable offer that would have made him the highest paid CB in the league.... and the Jets beat it....by a lot. The Jets would have beaten any off the Pats made, and made that clear to Revis and his people well before they were legally supposed to.

4 Talib was a more questionable decision, and in the end they decided they went as far as they could go. Talib took the top dollar from a top competitor, and has played pretty well...but after this year his cap number is going to exceed his worth not matter how well he plays.

5. I think people vastly over value how important one CB can be. Revis was even better with the Jets than he was with the Pats and he never got them past losing in the AFCCG. BB knew how to win against Revis most of the time and he was never the reason the Pats lost. He made things difficult, but look back and see all the times the Pats scored more than 30 against the Jets when they had some of the best defenses in the league including Revis.

6. People forget just how bad some of the secondaries the Pats recently had on some teams that won 12+ games, including one that went to a superbowl with 2 CB's that wouldn't make this team. BB doesn't build shut down defenses. He build D's that win games.

7. I said this earlier in the year, and I believe it more now. When the season ends, and we compare the stats between this defense and the 2014 one, the results are going to be remarkably similar, and that includes all the garbage time scores they have given up thus far ((and I count 5 TD's among those)

8. The best stat that last year's defense attained was that in the last 10 games (including the playoffs) the Pats didn't give up a SINGLE 4th quarter TD. That is a worthy goal to aspire to. Hopefully after we get through the next 4 games our defense will have improved enough to be ready to duplicate it.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

Revis was and is an elite talent however he made up his mind a long time ago.
Talib and Browner are good solid guys however they seem to match up well with
tall lanky guys and struggle with quick shifty guys. All of them represent water under
the bridge.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

BFD. Who says dez would have lasted 3 weeks here. Obviously BB diddint want him for some reason. ALso Bryant was 12th in receptions last year, 8th in yards, 10th in yds a game, and 35th in the NFL yds after catch.

DMac is considered a top 2-3 FS in the league. So you can say whatever you want but the stats dont back your claim. as great as Dez is.



You are complaining. And its annoying. And you would have a tiny bit of a point if the Pats D was worse than last year, of the team was not undefeated. Unfortuantely for you the D is better in several categories and the team is undefeated.

So shut the fuk up already.

I have the right to an opinion on mccourty-Bryant. You can disagree with it. But it's my opinion.

The 5-0 start and top 10 ranked D is terrific. We are all estactic. The last two times we've had this type of start 5-0 in 04 and 07 we made the super bowl both times. I like our chances again this year very much.

With that said, being 5-0 doesn't erase some of the negatives that have gone, and we should be able to address them as fans.

Last year, I coached a high school team to a state championship(not football). Despite the fact we remained undefeated for a majority of the season, I was always bringing up the critical errors, to keep the team humble. To make sure they continued improving.

Your last comment is unremarkable

 

[Bruins29]

Your last comment is unremarkable

Your OP is even more unremarkable but seeing your whole viewpoint on this frames it all pretty nicely. You can have your opinion about Dez all you want. Dosent make it right.

You are being called out as a troll by another poster. I am not a big fan of your attitude. But let me guess, in your world its everyone else....right?

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Some comments on the comments:

1. Every time you want to ask a question similar to the OP, repeat this 3 times. "the first rule of capology is for every dollar you give one player there is one less dollar to give everyone else."

2. Remember that within common sense the Pats spend to the higher limits of the cap. So when you speculate if we should have kept Revis or Talib, you also have to ask who that is currently on the team would you choose to take off the team.

3. I think it should be clear by now that Revis was NEVER coming back here. The Pats gave Revis a very reasonable offer that would have made him the highest paid CB in the league.... and the Jets beat it....by a lot. The Jets would have beaten any off the Pats made, and made that clear to Revis and his people well before they were legally supposed to.

4 Talib was a more questionable decision, and in the end they decided they went as far as they could go. Talib took the top dollar from a top competitor, and has played pretty well...but after this year his cap number is going to exceed his worth not matter how well he plays.

5. I think people vastly over value how important one CB can be. Revis was even better with the Jets than he was with the Pats and he never got them past losing in the AFCCG. BB knew how to win against Revis most of the time and he was never the reason the Pats lost. He made things difficult, but look back and see all the times the Pats scored more than 30 against the Jets when they had some of the best defenses in the league including Revis.

6. People forget just how bad some of the secondaries the Pats recently had on some teams that won 12+ games, including one that went to a superbowl with 2 CB's that wouldn't make this team. BB doesn't build shut down defenses. He build D's that win games.

7. I said this earlier in the year, and I believe it more now. When the season ends, and we compare the stats between this defense and the 2014 one, the results are going to be remarkably similar, and that includes all the garbage time scores they have given up thus far ((and I count 5 TD's among those)

8. The best stat that last year's defense attained was that in the last 10 games (including the playoffs) the Pats didn't give up a SINGLE 4th quarter TD. That is a worthy goal to aspire to. Hopefully after we get through the next 4 games our defense will have improved enough to be ready to duplicate it.

Excellent Post, awesome you really answered my question.

I do disagree with one point. When BB was in NY he built shutdown Ds. Perhaps he doesn't attempt to do that anymore, but he used to as a coordinator. That said BBs half time adjustments are second to none, and he definitely builds Ds to win. And we do have some great young talent on our D

 

[Bruins29]

Seriously!!! You sound like an 8 year old

"DEZ is better than McCourty cause I said so!!!!!!!!" Naaahh Nahhhh

Who the **** cares and even if Dez's stats were much better you couldnt prove he would have even fit on this team.....BTW many people have come out and made the claim he would not have worked out as well here.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Your OP is even more unremarkable but seeing your whole viewpoint on this frames it all pretty nicely. You can have your opinion about Dez all you want. Dosent make it right.

You are being called out as a troll by another poster. I am not a big fan of your attitude. But let me guess, in your world its everyone else....right?

Do you even know what my whole viewpoint is?

My attitude is very positive when it comes to the patriots. I consider myself as big a fan as any out there

Let's get back to discussing football please

 

[Bruins29]

Do you even know what my whole viewpoint is?

I think its asking rhetorical questions, making silly claims on multiple layers, dumb player comparisons and moving goal posts and creating strawmen when you are called out.

Did I miss anything?

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Seriously!!! You sound like an 8 year old

"DEZ is better than McCourty cause I said so!!!!!!!!" Naaahh Nahhhh

Who the **** cares and even if Dez's stats were much better you couldnt prove he would have even fit on this team.....BTW many people have come out and made the claim he would not have worked out as well here.

Let's agree to disagree on McCourty-Bryant

I think its asking rhetorical questions, making silly claims on multiple layers, dumb player comparisons and moving goal posts and creating strawmen when you are called out.

Did I miss anything?

Let's leave the personal attacks out of this. And get back to discussing football. If you don't agree with me or like what I have to say, then ignore me. My question was answered for this thread, I am done with discussions here.

 

[supafly]

BFD. Who says Dez would have lasted 3 weeks here? Obviously BB did not want him for some reason.

Major character concerns, as well as Oklahoma State's tendency to dumb down the offense so that Bryant could excel. Even now in DAL, he's had a babysitter and has still gotten into trouble and made poor decisions.

As you state, it's difficult to project whether or not Bryant could've picked up our system on any level whatsoever. While extremely talented, football intelligence and understanding the complicated system come first here in N.England.

 

[1960Pats]

Some comments on the comments:

1. Every time you want to ask a question similar to the OP, repeat this 3 times. "the first rule of capology is for every dollar you give one player there is one less dollar to give everyone else."

2. Remember that within common sense the Pats spend to the higher limits of the cap. So when you speculate if we should have kept Revis or Talib, you also have to ask who that is currently on the team would you choose to take off the team.

3. I think it should be clear by now that Revis was NEVER coming back here. The Pats gave Revis a very reasonable offer that would have made him the highest paid CB in the league.... and the Jets beat it....by a lot. The Jets would have beaten any off the Pats made, and made that clear to Revis and his people well before they were legally supposed to.

4 Talib was a more questionable decision, and in the end they decided they went as far as they could go. Talib took the top dollar from a top competitor, and has played pretty well...but after this year his cap number is going to exceed his worth not matter how well he plays.

5. I think people vastly over value how important one CB can be. Revis was even better with the Jets than he was with the Pats and he never got them past losing in the AFCCG. BB knew how to win against Revis most of the time and he was never the reason the Pats lost. He made things difficult, but look back and see all the times the Pats scored more than 30 against the Jets when they had some of the best defenses in the league including Revis.

6. People forget just how bad some of the secondaries the Pats recently had on some teams that won 12+ games, including one that went to a superbowl with 2 CB's that wouldn't make this team. BB doesn't build shut down defenses. He build D's that win games.

7. I said this earlier in the year, and I believe it more now. When the season ends, and we compare the stats between this defense and the 2014 one, the results are going to be remarkably similar, and that includes all the garbage time scores they have given up thus far ((and I count 5 TD's among those)

8. The best stat that last year's defense attained was that in the last 10 games (including the playoffs) the Pats didn't give up a SINGLE 4th quarter TD. That is a worthy goal to aspire to. Hopefully after we get through the next 4 games our defense will have improved enough to be ready to duplicate it.

Interesting points as always.
1 - Having a cap doesn't make losing Big Vince any easier for me.
3 - There's a reason they call him Mevis.
4 - I never cared for Talib's act. I'm pretty glad I don't have to see his rodent looking face that much anymore. He also didn't gain any points when he popped off after he left.
6 - I'm not sure that a normal offense could have carried some of those defenses to the SB.
7 & 8 - This defense may not reach such a lofty goal as that 4th quarter run from last year, but anything close would be fine with me.

 

[Canuck]

Signing Revis would have completely ruined the economic structure of this team... to have CB make that much more than Brady would have been absurd...

Talib made more sense, but he followed the money.. not much you can do, the Pats made a fair offer and he chose to walk away..

This reminds me of the whole SUH fiasco, 28 million dollar cap hit next year?? Indy has Luck and Hilton coming in at 29 million next year and Fleener and Costonzo also need to get paid..

Our entire offense is already locked up for 2016.. gotta take a long view on all of this.

Many teams are in the pay me now, live for today mode of team building.. the Pats choose a different approach.

Bill runs the Patriots like it's a business. Multi-year projections for player salaries and cap hits. Kraft and Bill sit down and do a budget for each year. Bill is an expert at asset (player) management. Every asset has a value. He will pay fair market value but won't overpay even if the asset is highly valuable.

 

[goheels22002]

I think the Patriots were lucky to get 19 games out of Revis Island without having to enter Cap Hell to get there. Talib drove us all nuts with his nagging injuries and the way he got wiped out by that cheap shot by Welker in the 2013 AFCC.

Let's talk about this in December when Talib is on the bench with a hip pointer or something. and Revis is on IR with a knee injury. Darrelle Revis mulled retiring following microfracture surgery

Both are excellent corners but neither is worth the cap space they commanded from their douche-y teams given their injury histories.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

We should have kept Talib and Revis and also traded Dobson for Watt. We should also trade Branch for Suh as well, and if we can get Wake thrown into the deal, even better. I'm sure we could add Sherman and Chancellor too since we're remaking the D. They were both late picks, I'm sure we could get them both for a 4th rounder.

We were 8th in points allowed and 13th in yards allowed last season with Revis. We were 10th in points allowed and 26th in yards allowed 2 seasons ago with Talib. We're currently 10th in points allowed and 17th in yards allowed and the defense always gets better in the second half.

Butler is not as good as Revis or Talib, but we couldn't match what they got paid. But the results have been better than Talib, and close to Revis.

And before we all start crowning the Jets, bear in mind they have not beaten a team with a winning record. And every team they've beaten has had a losing record at the time they played the Jets except for week 1, when they beat Cleveland.

 

[Double TE]

I get that bringing back Revis was cost prohibitive I just didn't like plan B of Fletcher and Brown. Instead of drafting Malcolm Brown perhaps they should have grabbed a CB there IDK?

 

[RobertWeathers]

I get that bringing back Revis was cost prohibitive I just didn't like plan B of Fletcher and Brown. Instead of drafting Malcolm Brown perhaps they should have grabbed a CB there IDK?

Fletcher was a disaster. Brown did well before he got hurt.

Well, Byron Jones was drafted by DAL a few spots ahead of Brown. Hes playing but not lighting the world on fire. Jalen Collins was drafted a few spots after Brown by ATL and has done nothing.

Meanwhile, Malcom Brown is improving every week.

 

[oldrover]

In case no one has made this point yet, allow me...













I don't care. I can't stand it!!!!

 

[Kontradiction]

Letting Talib walk wasn't a mistake. He ****ed out in two straight big time situations, one of which I thoroughly believe he could have come back in the game from (given the way he ran to the tunnel and the way Dennard looked to be almost pleading with him to come back into the game). I would have loved to have Revis back, but I'm not sure how realistic that would have been. The Jets gave him a ton of guaranteed money and would have probably ratcheted that up even more if the Pats somehow got close to that amount. We simply couldn't outbid them and Woody didn't exactly keep it a secret of how much he wanted Revis back.

 

[PP2]

I do disagree with one point. When BB was in NY he built shutdown Ds. Perhaps he doesn't attempt to do that anymore, but he used to as a coordinator. That said BBs half time adjustments are second to none, and he definitely builds Ds to win. And we do have some great young talent on our D

BB did not "built" shutdown D's in NY, at any point. He wasn't the one who drafted Lawrence Taylor (for example) and didn't even have any say over who to sign or draft during his tenure as DC.