Rappaport: CB Tarell Brown foot injury: [10/17 Update - - IR'ed]

[RobertWeathers]

My comment isn't meaning to question the decisions of Belichick, but rather just stating the disappointment that 4 veteran CBs haven't seemed to work out for one reason or another.

Maybe Brown still ends up contributing down the stretch? That's all we can hope for.

I know. It's all good.

BB is still GoAT. At this point he and his FO hasn't figured it out at CB2. Luck hasn't been on his side and their choices of players have not been good.

He'd be the first to tell you that.

Let's hope Rashaan "Bud" Melvin works out.

 

[n6249c]

I know. It's all good.

BB is still GoAT. At this point he and his FO hasn't figured it out at CB2. Luck hasn't been on his side and their choices of players have not been good.

He'd be the first to tell you that.

Let's hope Rashaan "Bud" Melvin works out.

No, everybody knows Luck plays for the Colts.

Although with his injury and the way he plays he might be helping our side.

One thing for sure, the uncertainty about whether to prepare for him or Hasselback is not going to be helping BB and Matt create their game plan.

 

[n6249c]

I know. It's all good.

BB is still GoAT. At this point he and his FO hasn't figured it out at CB2. Luck hasn't been on his side and their choices of players have not been good.

He'd be the first to tell you that.

Let's hope Rashaan "Bud" Melvin works out.

I'm going to take a different view. The choices of players have not been the problem, the problem is that the players they've tried have not risen to the occasion and seized the opportunity - yet. Their CB1 choice did rise to the occasion. When they called Butler's number he performed. So far Ryan has been spotty on that count, not a total washout but not a consistent star. Fletcher and McLain and a couple of others were over the hill but worth a try to see if they had a season left in the tank. Coleman and Melvin and the PS guys are about to get their chance. We'll see how they do, by December we will know if Hank Poteat type measures are required, for now it is far short of such extremes. But if it does get there, BB has shown he can make it work, and has the Lombardi to prove it.

This is interesting, most obvious example yet of using the first half or two thirds of the season as an extended TC to tune the lineup and find the best combinations. We saw it last year with the OL, this year it's the DBs. What is most amazing, and most promising, is that we are seeing Belichick do it without losing games. Pretty amazing!

 

[mgteich]

That sucks. Lots of playing time for butler and Ryan

Butler played all the reps last week. It is Ryan's time that will be affected. Coleman will likely be the nickel back, as he was last week. coming in for a linebacker. BTW, last week Brown replaced Ryan in nickel packages.

 

[mgteich]

Chung is the starter. DMC slides up on pure passing downs and Harmon comes in. Combine the two if you'd like. The point is that they aren't scouring the waiver wire for replacements like CB2

The patriots aren't scouring the waiver wire for a CB2 because Ryan has been playing that role, having beat out Fletcher. Coleman is our nickel.

There are two issues.
1) Should we try to rade (not waiver wire) for a #2 corner?
2) Should we try to add (by any means) a 5th CB to compete with Melvin for reps, and in case of injury?

Obviously, this depends on who is available. But my answer to both questions is "yes".

Melvin may fit right in a be a quality player for us, as Coleman is. Or, Melvin could be another Checkwa, Cox, McClain or Fletcher.

 

[DaBruinz]

I vote we trade our 2106 #1 pick for a CB

Seriously, I think we have to do something. This will/could be our downfall as far as trying to repeat. It was a pretty big weakness before Brown's injury, now it's really bad.

2106?? Pretty sure that Goodell and the rest of the league might have a problem with that.. LOL

 

[RayClay]

I know. It's all good.

BB is still GoAT. At this point he and his FO hasn't figured it out at CB2. Luck hasn't been on his side and their choices of players have not been good.

He'd be the first to tell you that.

Let's hope Rashaan "Bud" Melvin works out.

Ha ha. We should just call him "Bud" with no further explanation. Maybe his rookie task could be handing out hot towels in the locker room.

 

[DaBruinz]

Not impressed with melvin's 3 cone drill lol. Does coleman have the make up speed to cover wrs on the outside? It wouldn't shock me if they brung fletcher back.

Melvin's 3 cone doesn't have to impress you. He's an outside Corner and yes, he does have the make-up speed..

 

[RayClay]

2106?? Pretty sure that Goodell and the rest of the league might have a problem with that.. LOL

Well it's their fault, so why should they?

 

[aluminum seats]

Exactly. Poteat had been cut in the preseason and out of football all season when the Pats called and signed him six days before the divisional playoff game.

Today everyone on this board would proclaim the prospects hopeless.

All he did was help win the Super Bowl.

It seems to be weirdly frowned upon to suggest (Mike Reiss really gets his back up about it) but one thing is that our secondary coaching doesn't appear to be as good now as it was then.

People point to the Pats' CBs and say, "look! they weren't that good when they left either, so that means the coaching was fine, the players just weren't good!" Overlooking the fact that the Pats were able to excel, as you note, with JAGs in the past, due to, one might suggest, better coaching.

We rave about how we've had a couple of offensive line coaches who have really made a difference, then insist that it's impossible for secondary coaches to do the same.

 

[DaBruinz]

BB is definitely not perfect CB was a DEFINITE NEED in the Draft going in you don't draft a NEED poition in the Seventh Round.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, they had many of the CBs rated lower than you? Or that they felt that none of the CBs that the website had rated early would fit their system? Or that the more highly talented CBs wouldn't be open to the Pats brand of coaching? There are so many things NONE of us know about the process that the hindsight whining is tiresome..

 

[DaBruinz]

Well it's their fault, so why should they?

RayClay- Go back and read the year again. I bolded it and made it bigger.. I think you'll see the issue

 

[meatface]

Butler played all the reps last week. It is Ryan's time that will be affected. Coleman will likely be the nickel back, as he was last week. coming in for a linebacker. BTW, last week Brown replaced Ryan in nickel packages.

I just meant in the sense that Butler and Ryan will not be able to be subbed out very often. I think Melvin is going to get more playing time than would be ideal

 

[SlowGettingUp]

I think our problems at CB over the years simply reflect our poor draft position - we're always choosing at 30 or below, and the best corners are long since gone.

CB1 and CB2 are positions where it's hard to compensate for physical deficiencies - the CB is often one-on-one with a star player. So it's hard to get good CBs on the cheap - that's why Butler is close to being a miracle.

 

[PatriotReign]

Melvin White a corner with decent size and a couple of years of experience is on the Ram's practice squad.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'm going to take a different view. The choices of players have not been the problem, the problem is that the players they've tried have not risen to the occasion and seized the opportunity - yet.

I understand that some players are more successful in some systems than others but to say that a guy like Fletcher wasn't a good decision doesn't make sense. With that said, what makes BB great is that he does not allow his bad personnel decisions to become boat anchors. He took a shot on Fletcher in thinking he could contribute and once BB came to the conclusion that he could not here he released him. I have zero problem with the approach. He's found good players that way. This instance he swung and missed.

Their CB1 choice did rise to the occasion. When they called Butler's number he performed. So far Ryan has been spotty on that count, not a total washout but not a consistent star. Fletcher and McLain and a couple of others were over the hill but worth a try to see if they had a season left in the tank. Coleman and Melvin and the PS guys are about to get their chance. We'll see how they do, by December we will know if Hank Poteat type measures are required, for now it is far short of such extremes. But if it does get there, BB has shown he can make it work, and has the Lombardi to prove it.

This is interesting, most obvious example yet of using the first half or two thirds of the season as an extended TC to tune the lineup and find the best combinations. We saw it last year with the OL, this year it's the DBs. What is most amazing, and most promising, is that we are seeing Belichick do it without losing games. Pretty amazing!

He is THE BEST at all time in keeping a roster fluid and optimized as much as possible. He knows he'll make mistakes. He just doesn't live with them like other organizations.

 

[n6249c]

Melvin White a corner with decent size and a couple of years of experience is on the Ram's practice squad.

Dangerous to have him on the roster along with "Bud" Melvin. I can see it now, waning moments of Super Bowl 50, Pats clinging to a slim lead lead with the opponents knocking on the door. Belichick disdains a time out, and shouts "Melvin, get in there!" Pats get flagged for too many men when both players run onto the field....

 

[n6249c]

It seems to be weirdly frowned upon to suggest (Mike Reiss really gets his back up about it) but one thing is that our secondary coaching doesn't appear to be as good now as it was then.

People point to the Pats' CBs and say, "look! they weren't that good when they left either, so that means the coaching was fine, the players just weren't good!" Overlooking the fact that the Pats were able to excel, as you note, with JAGs in the past, due to, one might suggest, better coaching.

We rave about how we've had a couple of offensive line coaches who have really made a difference, then insist that it's impossible for secondary coaches to do the same.

Another reason it's time to bring back Poteat again. He's coaching CBs, could be an upgrade. He was certainly on the other side of the equation you describe.

 

[zydecochris]

I think our problems at CB over the years simply reflect our poor draft position - we're always choosing at 30 or below, and the best corners are long since gone.

CB1 and CB2 are positions where it's hard to compensate for physical deficiencies - the CB is often one-on-one with a star player. So it's hard to get good CBs on the cheap - that's why Butler is close to being a miracle.

Good point. I think the problem has been accentuated by two factors: i) the first is that it used to be that you could find corners that weren't amazing athletes but they could be effective by pulverizing the receivers, but Polian got that legislated out of the game for his Colts, so now corners all have to be amazing athletes; ii) the second is the proliferation of extremely large and tall receivers.

The combination of the two means that the ideal cornerback is a true freak of nature like Patrick Peterson, big enough to cover big receivers but an amazing athlete at that size. It is of course virtually impossible to find someone like that when drafting 30 or below.

The other solution is to have a mix and match set of cornerbacks, some super quick and shifty and at least one that is bigger and more physical. Last year it worked to perfection with Revis as the cover guy, Browner as the big physical corner, and others to fill in. Sometimes Browner was the CB2 and sometimes not, depending on the matchup.

IMHO, the primary problem this year has been the lack of a bigger more physical cornerback that can play on the edge against big receivers. BB's first attempt was Fletcher, 6', 205 lbs, but he didn't work out, he followed a very bad year with Philadelphia in 2014 with a poor start here. Now, we are bringing in Rashaan Melvin, who is 6' 2'', 193. Not likely to be a wrecking ball, but at least he has height.

I know roster positions are at a premium, but I had my way we would continue to poach young cornerbacks from other teams practice squads and give them a whirl to see if the light comes on with any of them. If Brown is IR'd then I wouldn't mind seeing us poach another young cornerback.

 

[mgteich]

I just meant in the sense that Butler and Ryan will not be able to be subbed out very often. I think Melvin is going to get more playing time than would be ideal

Butler was never subbed out. There is no reason for the two staring corners to be subbed out, unless we are dealing with specific matchup situations.