Stevie Johnson likely to sign with Pats [3/17 update: signs w/ San Diego]

[VectorPrime]

Jennings just said that he doesn't care if he wins another SB, he just wants to be paid. F**k that.

 

[Deus Irae]

Want no part of Bowe or Moore. Wanted no part of Stevie's attitude. So this development doesn't bother me. I wouldn't have gone more than ~$2.5M for 1 year plus a team option for a second year. Wouldn't take Bowe at the minimum.

Wanted Cecil badly, I'll admit that.

Seriously....

re-focus on your WR evaluation techniques and processes.

 

[patfanken]

So my last post was pretty much right on. Between the greater opportunity to be a bigger part of the offense, the climate, the money, and going home, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone with a modicum of sense as to why Stevie Johnson went to the Chargers. He would have been a fool to do otherwise.

Maybe now we can get back to figuring out how we can fill the ACTUAL needs this team has at 3rd down back, swing LB, and DL.

I also want to note that we have such a LONG time to get all this done. Back in 2011 the 2 most important FA pick ups that year came in with no notice, and not until July. (Andre Carter, Mark Anderson). Last year key guys like Ayers and Castillas didn't arrive until October.

The point is that you just don't KNOW, who is going to be that dependable to critically good player from year to year. Think back to last year at this time. Who would have thought that Wilfolk, Connolly, Wendell, LaFell, Chung, Siliga, and DA would play such critical parts. Who would have thought that we'd be able to start a 4th round rookie at C and upgrade the position. That Hightower and Collins could upgrade their games to levels approaching all star status....without Mayo being around.

Who are going to be those guys THIS year. It could be Wright, Easley, Buchannon, Moore, both Flemmings, or any of a half dozen other players who aren't even on the roster yet. THAT is what makes the whole "team building" process so precarious and difficult to do. You can't just throw together guys who look good on a fantasy team and predict success.

How the F often do you have to see it tried and fail before you start to get a clue. Just look at what happened to Miami and TB. Both were huge "winners" in the FA frenzy the last few seasons, and BOTH spent most of this off season trying to get away from most of what they brought in just in the last few years. And how does Denver feel after being EVERYONE's lock to win the AFC last off season. They are absolutely gonna pay for those big contract signings the next few years

Hey think about it. The Pats do a great job of cap management, yet even they get stuck having to make moves they really didn't want to make because of it. Just look at the Revis, Mankins and Wilfolk moves. Those weren't want to moves, they were HAVE to moves. In the long term we will survive all those tough decisions, they all hurt short term..

 

[Deus Irae]

... Just look at the Revis, Mankins and Wilfolk moves. Those weren't want to moves, they were HAVE to moves. In the long term we will survive all those tough decisions, they all hurt short term..

None of those moves were HAVE to moves.

 

[JackBauer]

Maybe now we can get back to figuring out how we can fill the ACTUAL needs this team has at 3rd down back, swing LB, and DL.

I don't know how you can look at a team making additions at WR and then claim it's not an actual need.

 

[patfanken]

I don't know how you can look at a team making additions at WR and then claim it's not an actual need.

I'm not sure I understand your question. Last season we revamped the receiving corps due to additions and returns from injury (Gronk and DA). In doing so we essentially got three 1000 yd receivers. I don't understand why anyone wouldn't think that without adding ANYONE, that starting receiver group (Gronk, Edelman, LaFell, and DA) wouldn't be even MORE effective with another year working together with Brady.

After THAT group of 4, it certainly isn't unreasonable to think that from the next tier of receivers (Chandler, Wright, Dobson, Tyms, Boyce, Gibson, etc), we should be able to find 2 or 3 more capable, dependable, and productive players to add their respective skill sets to the first 4 to create a very versatile, flexible, and productive receiving group.

That is why I don't seem to understand the URGENCY I see in some fans to upgrade the WR with big name FA or high draft picks. I remind everyone that there IS only one ball for each play, and we already have a top 5 receiving target on the team, as well as 2 other 1000 yd receivers. Personally I believe in continuity. I would like to see what the EXISTING group of receivers can accomplish by playing together for another year.

 

[captain stone]

Crabtree, Bowe and Moore would be my next targets.

I'd also add Greg Jennings to the list. In fact, I would place Jennings at the top of the list.
I ass-ume that you mean Denarius Moore, not Lance Moore.
Hakeem Nicks is another possibility, though I wouldn't offer him - or Denarius Moore, for that matter -
much, if any, more than what Brandon Gibson accepted.
I absolutely wouldn't offer Crabtree or Bowe what Stevie Johnson was offered. I wonder what Bowe's
former LSU teammate (however briefly) Brandon Lafell thinks of him. If those thoughts are positive,
then I'd consider making him an offer between the Gibson & Johnson ones, but for less guaranteed $.

 

[JackBauer]

I'm not sure I understand your question. Last season we revamped the receiving corps due to additions and returns from injury (Gronk and DA). In doing so we essentially got three 1000 yd receivers. I don't understand why anyone wouldn't think that without adding ANYONE, that starting receiver group (Gronk, Edelman, LaFell, and DA) wouldn't be even MORE effective with another year working together with Brady.

That is why I don't seem to understand the URGENCY I see in some fans to upgrade the WR with big name FA or high draft picks. I remind everyone that there IS only one ball for each play, and we already have a top 5 receiving target on the team, as well as 2 other 1000 yd receivers. Personally I believe in continuity. I would like to see what the EXISTING group of receivers can accomplish by playing together for another year.

You claimed that WR wasn't an actual need. I would argue that it is based on the fact that the Patriots have brought in one wide receiver (Gibson), whilst attempting to bring in another (Johnson).

I do not think it is as pressing a need as, say, CB/OL/DL (the team's most pressing needs, in order, as I see them), but it is a need, and the team's behavior suggests as much.

While the Patriots appear to have a good receiving stable on paper, durability is a real concern. DA can't stay healthy, Gronk has spent a good while dealing with various injuries, and Edelman has to be one of the luckiest guys in the NFL considering the way he plays. I'm not in favor of spending a high draft pick on the position (unlikely to help much this season), nor am I in favor of bringing in a high-priced FA. Instead, I would have preferred to get a mid-tier guy (Cecil Shorts, Stevie Johnson) who could hedge against Dobson and the persistent injury concerns.

 

[Wheelman]

This is what you get for making a "Stevie Johnson likely to sign with pats" thread...

 

[Ivan]

He's a blocking te that doesn't block all that well.

He's a depth player who helped them win a Super Bowl, I really don't get taking a dump on him.

 

[Sicilian]

You claimed that WR wasn't an actual need. I would argue that it is based on the fact that the Patriots have brought in one wide receiver (Gibson), whilst attempting to bring in another (Johnson).

While you might be right, the fact that the only WR who they've currently signed was on a 1-yr deal for less than a million might suggest that, while they want to add competition for the depth players, they don't view the need as great enough to invest significant resources into. I wouldn't classify that as a "need" move.

 

[patfanken]

You claimed that WR wasn't an actual need. I would argue that it is based on the fact that the Patriots have brought in one wide receiver (Gibson), whilst attempting to bring in another (Johnson).

I do not think it is as pressing a need as, say, CB/OL/DL (the team's most pressing needs, in order, as I see them), but it is a need, and the team's behavior suggests as much.

While the Patriots appear to have a good receiving stable on paper, durability is a real concern. DA can't stay healthy, Gronk has spent a good while dealing with various injuries, and Edelman has to be one of the luckiest guys in the NFL considering the way he plays. I'm not in favor of spending a high draft pick on the position (unlikely to help much this season), nor am I in favor of bringing in a high-priced FA. Instead, I would have preferred to get a mid-tier guy (Cecil Shorts, Stevie Johnson) who could hedge against Dobson and the persistent injury concerns.

Fair enough, but I still disagree with your characterization that because they brought in Gibson and are talking to other WR's, the Pats aren't happy with their current group. Gibson was a typical "coming off an injury" value that the Pats love to take a shot at, especially one they liked as an opponent. Also IIRC, his signing predated DA's restructuring, so he might have also been looked at as a potential replacement in case in hadn't worked out with DA.

BTW- aside from the spurious twitter feeds, we really don't exactly know how hot the Pats were to sign Stevie Johnson, so to use him to buttress a POV might be shaky.

It's not like I'm against bringing in any more receivers into the mix, Jack, especially if they bring skills sets (size/speed/quickness, etc) that we don't have. I love the idea of intense WR competition in TC. I think I am more reacting to urgency and neediness that some fans put into their posts when it comes to the WR position.

 

[JackBauer]

While you might be right, the fact that the only WR who they've currently signed was on a 1-yr deal for less than a million might suggest that, while they want to add competition for the depth players, they don't view the need as great enough to invest significant resources into. I wouldn't classify that as a "need" move.

Not by choice.

 

[Sicilian]

Not by choice.

Yes and no. If they're not willing to extend beyond a very modest number for the player, in a way it was their choice (and also SD's choice to offer more, and Johnson's choice to take more). Without knowing what they offered it's hard to say.

 

[Deus Irae]

While you might be right, the fact that the only WR who they've currently signed was on a 1-yr deal for less than a million might suggest that, while they want to add competition for the depth players, they don't view the need as great enough to invest significant resources into. I wouldn't classify that as a "need" move.

Unless you think they only offered Johnson one year at less than a million dollars, your argument holds absolutely no water.

The "They don't need a WR" is a myth that needs to die and rot in hell. They need the WR. BB has been demonstrating an understanding of that fact since as far back as 2009.

 

[JackBauer]

Fair enough, but I still disagree with your characterization that because they brought in Gibson and are talking to other WR's, the Pats aren't happy with their current group.

The question, in my opinion, isn't whether they're happy. It's whether they're confident the lineup as currently configured (and assuming it won't be reinforced in the draft) is enough to sustain them through an entire season + playoffs.

 

[Sicilian]

Unless you think they only offered Johnson one year at less than a million dollars, your argument holds absolutely no water.

My point was that we have no real evidence that they made a push at significant money to sign the player. My example of the one player they did sign was just to show the current moves they've made. The Patriots may think they need an upgrade at WR, I don't know, but so far we really have no evidence that it's anything more than taking shots at low dollars to see who's interested.

 

[BradyBranch39]

Seriously....

re-focus on your WR evaluation techniques and processes.

?????????????

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Every time I've said bad things about Bowe and Denarius in the past, they've backed that up by getting worse and worse... why should I want them now?

Watch Cecil Shorts for 5 minutes (granted, he misses a lot of time, so this won't be as easy to find as 5 minutes of Jordy Nelson) and you'll see nothing but good WR play.

 

[Deus Irae]

My point was that we have no real evidence that they made a push at significant money to sign the player...

Johnson doesn't take even 30 seconds to think about SD v. NE if the Patriots offer isn't at least representative. There's your evidence.

 

[Deus Irae]

?????????????

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Every time I've said bad things about Bowe and Denarius in the past, they've backed that up by getting worse and worse... why should I want them now?

Watch Cecil Shorts for 5 minutes (granted, he misses a lot of time, so this won't be as easy to find as 5 minutes of Jordy Nelson) and you'll see nothing but good WR play.

I've watched all 3 of them play, most likely much more often than have you.