Excellent Analysis of Patriots D by Bedard

[Rob0729]

Funny because they were both playing the same exact positions they would play in a 4-3. 3-4 ILBs are the exact same as the WILL and MIKE in a 4-3, which is where Mayo and Collins were playing. We've talked about this so much in the Chandler Jones thread. I'm done beating a dead horse.

It isn't the exact same position he would play in a 4-3. Only Andy Johnson is the only one who agrees with you on that point. Bedard contradicts you and he watched the All 22 several times. I am pretty sure Matt Chatham has contradicted this. Mike Reiss has contradicted this. Scott Zolak and Andy Gresh has contradicted this. Pretty much anyone who analyzes the game disagrees with you.

And no the ILBs are not the same thing as the WILL and Mike.

You act like the only difference between a 3-4 and 4-3 is one player changes from his hand in the ground to standing upright.

And yes, we did yes we went over this in the other thread and no one seems to agree with you or Andy Johnson on this.

 

[Haley]

I feel like a lot of the media is overlooking the obvious but perhaps I just don't know enough about it. I probably shouldn't open my mouth but eh, what's a little text. This is my impression fwiw.

To me, our tackling and blocking was terrible and we consistently lost the battle at the line on offense and failed to tackle the runner on D. Sure, the defense scheme may be a little inappropriate for our personal. Yes mistakes were undoubtedly made within the schemes, as with most games. But at a fundamental level, we couldn't compete with just the blocking and tackling.

This holds true with respect to the penalties handed out as well. It was as if our players were simply not aware of some of the rule changes. When flags were thrown they were completely surprised but many of them, particularly the RTP flags.

I know when I watched the Seahawks play, they seemed to be winning the battle right at the line which is something I did not see from the Patriots. I'm not saying scheme has nothing to do with this, but had they played a better scheme with his same level of fundamentals, I think the results would have been similar. These guys need some coaching up, but more than that, they need a little elbow grease and hard work to shake off some rust and come up to speed with the skill set and knowledge required in this year's NFL.

 

[shmessy]

This is why my signature for over two years now has been "Don't fall in love with schemes."

If only Belichick saw your sig before last Sunday's game......

 

[shmessy]

Since the Miami game, despite what our eyes beheld, Matt Patricia stated that Chandler Jones can play well in
the 3-4. Come hell and high water, this is probably their base defense for the year. I think will take a few ass
whippings to change management's mind.

Chandler Jones CAN play well in a 3-4........as an OUTSIDE LINEBACKER!!!!!!

 

[Ring 6]

Bedard is looking at the All-22s and going over film over and over again to break down his analysis and disagrees with you.

I'm not certain that assumption is correct. Has Bedard said that he did film study to write that column? I'm not sure thats what he does as a writer covering the entire league.

 

[AzorianPats]

One of the common themes between the Pats and Packers that Bedard brings up is inconsistent drafting of personnel. Both teams have linemen better suited to a 4-3 and linebackers better suited to a 3-4. Every defensive lineman who the Pats looked at this offseason - from Will Smith to Dominique Easley and Zach Moore to Jerel Worthy and Kelcy Quarles - projects much better to a 4-3 than a 3-4. I don't think it's a coincidence that Dont'a Hightower had a great game on Sunday, perhaps his best in a Pats' uniform, and Chandler Jones had a terrible game. Hightower is much better suited to a 3-4 than a 4-3, Jones much better suited to a 4-3 than a 3-4. The mystery is why the Pats drafted them together, within a 4 pick range. I have never understood that.

The Seahawks have had a very consistent vision, and have tailored their personnel towards it. The results show. No man's land is generally not a good place to be.

Mayo, you don't think Easley can project good in a 3-4 as a DE? Strictly attacking, and not 2 gapping?

 

[Rob0729]

I'm not certain that assumption is correct. Has Bedard said that he did film study to write that column? I'm not sure thats what he does as a writer covering the entire league.

Bedard said when he was on 98.5 on Tuesday that he went through the TV broadcast twice (the ALL 22 wasn't out). He tweeted yesterday after reviewing the All 22 that Edelman blew the deep pass in the fourth quarter and not Brady.

Bedard has a weekly two hour guest spot on 98.5. He is still studying game film for the Pats because he does still have Patriots specific responsibilities for his radio gig. So yes, my assumptions are correct. He is breaking down Patriots game film.

 

[Ring 6]

Bedard said when he was on 98.5 on Tuesday that he went through the TV broadcast twice (the ALL 22 wasn't out). He tweeted yesterday after reviewing the All 22 that Edelman blew the deep pass in the fourth quarter and not Brady.

Bedard has a weekly two hour guest spot on 98.5. He is still studying game film for the Pats because he does still have Patriots specific responsibilities for his radio gig. So yes, my assumptions are correct. He is breaking down Patriots game film.

OK, I was giving him the benefit of the doubt that his analysis was without the benefit of film study.

 

[Guts]

Coaching was awful, but god damn the players need to be accountable for the horrible tackling I re watched the game most of the Dolphins big gains came from missed tackles it was frustrating to watch

 

[Ring 6]

Coaching was awful, but god damn the players need to be accountable for the horrible tackling I re watched the game most of the Dolphins big gains came from missed tackles it was frustrating to watch

Thats part of the issue with a one gap defense. If you miss tackles there is much more room to run.

 

[SunsOutGunsOut]

Maybe Bill still thinks it is 1986, running the scheme he ran with the Giants.

 

[TomPatriot]

Honestly, I lay most of the blame for Sunday's loss on the coaching staff. The players didn't play well. But some of the schemes that were used didn't help.

The preparation was unusually poor, like the players and coaches were still in preseason form, on both sides of the ball.

 

[Ring 6]

Maybe Bill still thinks it is 1986, running the scheme he ran with the Giants.

This is nothing like the scheme he ran with the Giants.

 

[Ring 6]

Honestly, I lay most of the blame for Sunday's loss on the coaching staff. The players didn't play well. But some of the schemes that were used didn't help.

I'm curious how you make the distinction. If a play goes wrong, how do you determine if the player did a bad job or 'the scheme failed'.
I saw lots of plays out there that could have been made and weren't.
For example the TD Ninkovich allowed. Did he do a terrible job of executing his assignment, was it a bad scheme, or did the offense find the weakness in the call (because every defense you call has a weakness to exploit if you can find it).
Not saying you are right or wrong, just pointing out, its very hard to draw that line.

 

[mayoclinic]

Chandler Jones CAN play well in a 3-4........as an OUTSIDE LINEBACKER!!!!!!

To be fair, Jones has a n=1 of success playing primarily as a 3-4 OLB, in the 3rd preseason game against Carolina. I don't think that's enough to pass judgment. I personally think he is much better playing with his hand in the dirt most of the time.

Mayo, you don't think Easley can project good in a 3-4 as a DE? Strictly attacking, and not 2 gapping?

Can Easley play 3-4 DE in an attacking mode? Probably. Is that the best use of his skill set? Almost certainly not. He's a penetrating 3-tech first and foremost. Andy and I disagree somewhat on this - Andy would keep him always inside the tackles, whereas I see some value to being able to move him around in different gaps - but I think that any scheme which relegates him primarily to an end role is a misuse of his abilities, just as any scheme which requires Chandler Jones to be a 3-4 DE or to play in space is a misuse of his abilities.

Go to a 4 man front and you solve both issues.

 

[ATippett56]

Can Easley play 3-4 DE in an attacking mode? Probably. Is that the best use of his skill set? Almost certainly not.

I question the ability of Easley to be an effective 3-4 defensive end.

Dominique Easley - arm length 32-7/8"

In addition, I question the ability of Dont'a Hightower to be an effective 4-3 defensive end.

Dont'a Hightower - arm length 32-5/8"

 

[mgteich]

Musical chairs. Are criticizing having ONE substitute playing a lot on a 90 day with high humidity, and then sitting out when he was injured.

I am ignoring Fleming's ONE rep.

I don't any musical chairs. Belichick decided on Devey as a starter. Are you suggesting that Devey should have played all game with Wendell not playing at all (or Kline if he were the backup interior OL)?

The OPEN question for this week is who starts at RG. Of course, from your comments, it seems that you favor that we start Devey and avoid "musical chairs".

Musical chairs is order of the day until Brady gets injured.

 

[mayoclinic]

I question the ability of Easley to be an effective 3-4 defensive end.

Dominique Easley - arm length 32-7/8"

In addition, I question the ability of Dont'a Hightower to be an effective 4-3 defensive end.

Dont'a Hightower - arm length 32-5/8"

I question the ability of Easley to be an effective 3-4 defensive end.

Dominique Easley - arm length 32-7/8"

In addition, I question the ability of Dont'a Hightower to be an effective 4-3 defensive end.

Dont'a Hightower - arm length 32-5/8"

Easley has the same arm length as Charles Johnson, who has been a fairly effective 4-3 DE. I don't think he's an edge player - there's a difference between lining a player up in a role on occasion and making that his main position.

 

[goheels22002]

Coaching was awful, but god damn the players need to be accountable for the horrible tackling I re watched the game most of the Dolphins big gains came from missed tackles it was frustrating to watch

The Patriots defense looked fine in the 1st half. Then they came out and played slow, reactive and sloppy in the second half. It seemed like they became complacent while the Miami Dolphins adjusted and started sending running backs and receivers at what they thought correctly were mismatches up front and on the the second level. The Patriots did not respond by changing up things or ratcheting up the intensity at the point of attack. I blame the coaching staff for that.

Vince Wilfork looked pretty good in the early going, but got pushed off the point of attack in the 2nd half. That's an issue that he needs to address, or the coaching staff needs to sort out by using more big 4-3 with Wilfork and Siliga side-by-side in the middle.

Bedard's comment about Collins was interesting to me. He's got the height and speed to do great things in the passing game, but on running plays he's just not the kind of presence you need to stay out of the wash when trying to fill gaps full of OL and blocking backs that a guy like Hightower can sort through to get to the ball carrier. I'd like to see Ninkovich over there when teams start to run at Collins.

Easley and Jones on the ends with Siliga and Wilfork inside would be an athletic and tough front four when teams start loading up to run. A trio of Ninkovich, Mayo and Hightower on the next level give the Pats all sorts of blitz options.

It will be interesting to see how they stack the box with AP on tap this weekend.

 

[SVN]

I'm not certain that assumption is correct. Has Bedard said that he did film study to write that column? I'm not sure thats what he does as a writer covering the entire league.

He does watch the tape

James Stewart @IAmJamesStewart · Sep 9
Today @GregABedard in studio from 2-4, breaking down the Pats all 22 tape, 3 up / 3 down, Ray Rice and other NFL issues on @FelgerAndMazz


Greg A. Bedard @GregABedard · Sep 10
Now that the All-22 is FINALLY out, Brady was right & Edelman wrong on that 3rd&9. Single high safety. Stay vertical.