Seahawks expected to release Red Bryant

[mayoclinic]

If the Pats cut Wilfork, they save 7.5...Bryant was getting 7 a year. Not going to save enough there to also add Dunlap or Johnson. We could still do it - just not with ONLY the Wilfork money.

First, Bryant got $7M AAV (5 years/$35.1M) from Seattle in 2012, but there's no way he's going to see that kind of deal again. Even in that deal, his initial 2012 cap hit was only $4M. He could probably be signed for something similar to what the Pats gave Jonathan Fanene in 2012, around $4M AAV, with a $2.5-3M 2014 cap hit.

Second, even if the Pats signed a high profile DE like Carlos Dunlap or Michael Johnson, their 2014 cap hit should be manageable, probably around $5M or so. We're not talking AAV here, we're talking 2014 cap hit, which is when we are tight. We have much more room in 2015, not even factoring in cap increase.

I doubt it could be done with ONLY Wilfork money, and I didn't intend it that way. But I think that cutting Wilfork could cover most of the 2014 cap cost of those 2 signings.

I've believed for years (Seattle reinforced it this year) that you need to have a bunch of studs on the DL and rotate them liberally. Go Go Go! San Fran and Seattle have great defensive backfields...in no small part because opposing QBs rarely get 3 seconds. That's everything in today's NFL.

I'd like to see the Pats load up the DL with proven vets - Pat Sims (should be cheap), Lamar Houston, Red Bryant, Armstead, Kelly, Jones, Siliga, Nink...if Wilfork can still play, subtract one of the first three, maybe.

I agree with the general principle of loading up on DL bodies and rotating them to both keep them fresh and to keep opposing offenses off balance. Carolina used something of the same strategy very effectively in fielding a top 5 (top 3, probably) defense this year.

Lamarr Houston will not be cheap, much as I'd love to have him. If Oakland lets him hit FA his will be quite high priced. Bryant is mainly a run stopper, and that's generally not as valued. I think he would come much cheaper. But the market will ultimately decide.

 

[Sciz]

but that run-stuffing LE position doesn't exist in the more prototypical 4-3 defense they've used the past two seasons.

you mean that lights out defense that let the likes of Moreno rip off 37 carries for 224 yards?

Bryant is an All Pro d lineman. He can play DT. Experience, size, strength...add him to the roster...figure out the D alignments later on

Bryant was an absolute nobody at DT in his first two seasons in the NFL. He's been one of the best run-stuffing LEs in the NFL since. If you want a DT, then go sign a DT. There are plenty of free agents with more position versatility, more DT experience, and more pass rush ability.

Henry Melton was a top 3-tech interior rusher before tearing his ACL. Arthur Jones is a primarily outside guy that is far more versatile than Bryant. Lamarr Houston is an oversized end that can actually rush the QB. Jason Hatcher was an elite pass-rushing DT last season. If Wilfork is the starting NT next season, then Kevin Williams would be a much better fit next to him than Bryant. Heck, I'd take fellow Seahawk Clinton McDonald at DT next to Wilfork before Bryant. McDonald played more snaps than Bryant and actually played the same position that he'd play in NE (3-tech). Tommy Kelly, when healthy, had more pass rushing production in his 5 games than Bryant did in his 15. If Wilfork is gone and the Pats are playing a 4-3, then they need a NT. In that case, they they should go for Linval Joseph over anybody else. He's proven that he can be a top 4-3 NT.

Yes, I'd take Bryant at 4-3 DT over Jones, Vellano, or Sopoaga. But that's not the point. In his six years in the NFL, Bryant has done exactly one thing well, and that's stuffing the run from the LE position. Free agency is full of guys who have shown an ability to play 4-3 DT at a high level. Why spend big money on a guy and expect him to do something he's never been good at when there are so many more proven options?

 

[Froob]

Yes please! Even if he can't rush the passer, an elite run stuffer would be huge. Depending on price of course.

 

[Marqui]

Would love to get Bryant here. Great fit.

 

[SeanBruschi54]

This guy is probably our top priority if true. Hopefully some team does not seriously overpay him.

 

[Joker]

Sciz, what would you consider "too expensive"? If he's a cut, you expect a huge bidding war for his services? An all pro "run stuffer" upgrades the all blow run stuffing we saw last season. I understand you hinge a lot on Wilfork coming back. I'm not optimistic about that.
Bryant has intangibles too. Experience, leadership,wins in big games.

Perhaps Belichick goes in another direction but I fail to see how Bryant is not a fit today when he was almost a Patriot fit two years ago.

 

[supafly]

Bryant was an absolute nobody at DT in his first two seasons in the NFL. He's been one of the best run-stuffing LEs in the NFL since. If you want a DT, then go sign a DT. There are plenty of free agents with more position versatility, more DT experience, and more pass rush ability.

Henry Melton was a top 3-tech interior rusher before tearing his ACL. Arthur Jones is a primarily outside guy that is far more versatile than Bryant. Lamarr Houston is an oversized end that can actually rush the QB. Jason Hatcher was an elite pass-rushing DT last season. If Wilfork is the starting NT next season, then Kevin Williams would be a much better fit next to him than Bryant. Heck, I'd take fellow Seahawk Clinton McDonald at DT next to Wilfork before Bryant. McDonald played more snaps than Bryant and actually played the same position that he'd play in NE (3-tech). Tommy Kelly, when healthy, had more pass rushing production in his 5 games than Bryant did in his 15. If Wilfork is gone and the Pats are playing a 4-3, then they need a NT. In that case, they they should go for Linval Joseph over anybody else. He's proven that he can be a top 4-3 NT.

Yes, I'd take Bryant at 4-3 DT over Jones, Vellano, or Sopoaga. But that's not the point. In his six years in the NFL, Bryant has done exactly one thing well, and that's stuffing the run from the LE position. Free agency is full of guys who have shown an ability to play 4-3 DT at a high level. Why spend big money on a guy and expect him to do something he's never been good at when there are so many more proven options?

Sciz, what would you consider "too expensive"? If he's a cut, you expect a huge bidding war for his services? An all pro "run stuffer" upgrades the all blow run stuffing we saw last season. I understand you hinge a lot on Wilfork coming back. I'm not optimistic about that.
Bryant has intangibles too. Experience, leadership,wins in big games.

Perhaps Belichick goes in another direction but I fail to see how Bryant is not a fit today when he was almost a Patriot fit two years ago.

Solid points from both sides.

Like any other personnel move, this one will be all about the ability to upgrade our current talent at a fair price. If the financial value fits, then I would be interested in Bryant. If not, there are still some very good (probably better, as Sciz points out) other options out there.

It's fun to speculate and talk about this kind of stuff, but obviously it's all about Bill Belichick's evaluation. My concern is that Bryant may cost a bit too much, and that there may be better value options out there.

He's obviously still a solid run stuffer, but he's coming off a year where he produced very little pressure (only 1.5 sacks), which is likely going to be the difference from that big pact that he signed a couple of yrs ago. If the money is right, sign him up. It certainly can't hurt.

 

[Wilfork#75]

Bryant was an absolute nobody at DT in his first two seasons in the NFL. He's been one of the best run-stuffing LEs in the NFL since. If you want a DT, then go sign a DT. There are plenty of free agents with more position versatility, more DT experience, and more pass rush ability.

Henry Melton was a top 3-tech interior rusher before tearing his ACL. Arthur Jones is a primarily outside guy that is far more versatile than Bryant. Lamarr Houston is an oversized end that can actually rush the QB. Jason Hatcher was an elite pass-rushing DT last season. If Wilfork is the starting NT next season, then Kevin Williams would be a much better fit next to him than Bryant. Heck, I'd take fellow Seahawk Clinton McDonald at DT next to Wilfork before Bryant. McDonald played more snaps than Bryant and actually played the same position that he'd play in NE (3-tech). Tommy Kelly, when healthy, had more pass rushing production in his 5 games than Bryant did in his 15. If Wilfork is gone and the Pats are playing a 4-3, then they need a NT. In that case, they they should go for Linval Joseph over anybody else. He's proven that he can be a top 4-3 NT.

Yes, I'd take Bryant at 4-3 DT over Jones, Vellano, or Sopoaga. But that's not the point. In his six years in the NFL, Bryant has done exactly one thing well, and that's stuffing the run from the LE position. Free agency is full of guys who have shown an ability to play 4-3 DT at a high level. Why spend big money on a guy and expect him to do something he's never been good at when there are so many more proven options?

I have to agree. I love Red Bryant as a 5-tech in a 4-3 under defense, but he hasn't shown the ability to play DT in the NFL. He was on the verge of being cut by Seattle after really struggling at DT before they moved him to DE. Maybe he has developed enough where he can play DT also, but that is still an unknown and something that will have to be taken into account on the financial side. For what he is though I love the guy. As a monster run stuffing LDE and a really unheralded team leader. If you want him to come in and stop the run in the middle of the defense then you might be disappointed because he hasn't shown the ability to do that so far in his career. It might not seem like a significant difference but his game is much better suited for DE than DT.

 

[patsfan-1982]

not a pass rusher and I don't think he's any better then Kelly and he is not better then Wilfork vs the run

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

A good 5 mill a year will do

 

[YearbookCurfew]

I would love for the Pats to pick him up. Imagine our run D after we have him?

 

[supafly]

A good 5 mill a year will do

That is exactly my concern, BTM.

I think that's too much money myself. I'd much rather give 5m per year to someone else, if Belichick was even willing to give 5m per year in any form.

There's a possibility Bryant just falls into that empty category of guys who are talented and who it'd be nice to have, but just aren't worth the money.

 

[hwc]

I don't even understand why Armistead's name keeps coming up. The guy has never played a down in the NFL. And, has been completely out of football for a year.

If he has recovered from his illness and can show up to camp and can make the team, great. But, to list him as a likely contributor on the Patriots 53 man roster at this point in time seems like a stretch of massive proportions.

 

[supafly]

I don't even understand why Armistead's name keeps coming up. The guy has never played a down in the NFL. And, has been completely out of football for a year.

If he has recovered from his illness and can show up to camp and can make the team, great. But, to list him as a likely contributor on the Patriots 53 man roster at this point in time seems like a stretch of massive proportions.

I think any kind of production from Armstead will be nothing more than a bonus, although if he can take part in OTAs and TC, it would be a good sign for our depth. I highly doubt that Belichick will be counting on him, Kelly, or Wilfork; although just the law of averages alone should give us as least one of them.

 

[ripatsfan91]

I don't even understand why Armistead's name keeps coming up. The guy has never played a down in the NFL. And, has been completely out of football for a year.

If he has recovered from his illness and can show up to camp and can make the team, great. But, to list him as a likely contributor on the Patriots 53 man roster at this point in time seems like a stretch of massive proportions.

Probably because BB spoke so highly of him after the pats signed him. He was rookie of the year in the CFL and a beast pass rusher there. He was also a projected first round pick had he not had the medical issue in college.

 

[Froob]

I don't even understand why Armistead's name keeps coming up. The guy has never played a down in the NFL. And, has been completely out of football for a year.

If he has recovered from his illness and can show up to camp and can make the team, great. But, to list him as a likely contributor on the Patriots 53 man roster at this point in time seems like a stretch of massive proportions.

Agreed, anything he does is a bonus. I hate when people say they don't want guys like Red Bryant or Johnathan Abraham because they'd rather go young with guys such as Justin Francis. He looked like a stud and now he's out of the league.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

Would be all for RB addition. Dollars and sense make it happen.

 

[TonyTucker]

Sign that fat fool.

"Why do they call you Red, because your hair was red?"
"Nah, cause I read a book."

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Agreed, anything he does is a bonus. I hate when people say they don't want guys like Red Bryant or Johnathan Abraham because they'd rather go young with guys such as Justin Francis. He looked like a stud and now he's out of the league.

Sorry, my bad. I'll stop saying that.

 

[upstater1]

If they sign Bryant, clearly it will come at Wilfork and Kelly's expense. Bryant is younger than both.

This would be the thinking in signing Bryant.