That was pass interference

[Deus Irae]

Within the context of the game I don't feel bad about it at all or consider it a tainted win.

Was there interference at tround the 9 ? Yes. Would I have called it ? No.

However the non call on the Browns' first drive that cost us a FG (against) and probably a Scoop and Score (for) offsets that IMO. We had lousy refs, they made lousy calls. But of the "gamechanging" variety, each team got one.

I agree that there's no need to feel bad about getting the win, particularly in light of how the season's gone. Also, within the context of this game, both teams benefited from poor officiating. Let's be honest, though, in saying that a quick whistle is not as bad a screw up as a blown PI in the endzone with the game on the line.

The Patriots got a gift against the Browns and got screwed against the Panthers and Jets. I figure the Patriots can get one more guilt-free gift before I start wondering if I should feel bad about any subsequent games.

 

[Patsrock]

Fair points, Ken. If Boyce had not been contacted, that ball likely drops right into his arms (still...he should've had it, and needs to make that catch in spite of contact going forward).

I don't think the call should be controversial, I'd say that contact is probably called DPI more often than not, it's just that - and while I don't want to sound cliched - "you hate to see a game decided that way" applies here.

The I hate to see a game decided that way bothers me. Because the first qtr quick whistle that negated a turnover and maybe a defensive TD. Changed the game too, just because it happened on the 1st drive it's not talked about.

Also the game wasn't decided on that play. Cleveland had more chances to stop NE but didn't.

Calls in 1st change/decide games just like that PI did.

 

[sb1]

I agree that there's no need to feel bad about getting the win, particularly in light of how the season's gone. Also, within the context of this game, both teams benefited from poor officiating. Let's be honest, though, in saying that a quick whistle is not as bad a screw up as a blown PI in the endzone with the game on the line.

The Patriots got a gift against the Browns and got screwed against the Panthers and Jets. I figure the Patriots can get one more guilt-free gift before I start wondering if I should feel bad about any subsequent games.

Hopefully not in the playoffs and especially not the SB. Gimme a clean win in the postseason. We hear enough hee hawing about spygate, we don't need anything else to add to that.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Did you notice, that whenever an unnamed big foreheaded QB throws a deep pass, there is intereference called on almost EVERY attempt. I'm not going to feel guilty about this one. The guy put his hands on Boyce's shoulderpads. That's AT least defensive holding.

 

[Deus Irae]

Hopefully not in the playoffs and especially not the SB. Gimme a clean win in the postseason. We hear enough hee hawing about spygate, we don't need anything else to add to that.

After the way the officials helped out the Giants in 2007, I'm OK with the Patriots getting a gift in a Super Bowl, too. Nobody in the media goes makes a point of acknowledging that the 2007 Giants win was tainted by poor officiating in favor of NY, so screw 'em all.

 

[Ring 6]

Disclaimer, I haven't watched the play over and over but I have a picture up in my office that someone tweeted when they are at the 9. Boyce is looking back for the ball, the DB is looking straight to the end zone and Boyce's left shoulder is being pulled back (unless he's a great actor). That's why I think there was pass interference.

However it was quick and if that's all there was I just hate the way every bit of contact is always getting flags these days. It was closer to ticky tack interference than incidental contact but while there was a small amount of interference I am not comfortable throwing a flag on something that brief.

FWIW this is the picture I referred to :

https://twitter.com/SteveB7SFG/status/410044867872423937/photo/1

Where I disagree is that ticky tack playing the man and ticky tack while playing the ball are 2 very different things.
A defender trying to make a play on the ball is very different than a player beaten and chasing with no clue where the ball is trying to impede the receiver from making the catch.
There just is no 'jockeying for position' or 'hand fighting' if one player is trying to catch the ball and the other has no clue where it is and is only trying to prevent the other from getting to it.
Also if you get a chance, watch the replay, there are a few good ones in this thread. Even without that arm bar at the 8, he grabs Boyces arm and shoulder in the endzone. That gets called 100% of the time that the ref has a clear view.

Here is the standard to me. If the DB doesnt touch him it is easily a catch.
AND the DB was touching him in order to make a play on the football but to impede the receiver from making one.
No brainer to me.

Change that to the DB not being beaten, and therefore seeing the ball and making a play on it, and I would agree the contact is ticky tack. Those are 2 entirely different things though.

 

[BelichickFan]

Let's be honest, though, in saying that a quick whistle is not as bad a screw up as a blown PI in the endzone with the game on the line.

The quick whistle was probably the difference between 0-3 down and 7-0 up. So in this case I think it's as bad. Especially as the quick whistle was defintiely bad whereas the PI could have gone either way.

Having just watched a GIF of the picture I mentioned, Boyce definitely was pulled (quickly) around the 9.

 

[Ring 6]

No. Because I just don't see that. And I'm not the only one so it's clearly not as cut and dried as you and others are suggesting.

As for the arm bar at the 8, Boyce initiated contact and was using his arm to push McFadden away. That's also moot because there was no penalty called for that.

I don't know what to say if you can look at McFadden grabbing Boyce and saying you don't see it.
We must have a vision gap.

 

[Deus Irae]

The quick whistle was probably the difference between 0-3 down and 7-0 up. So in this case I think it's as bad. Especially as the quick whistle was defintiely bad whereas the PI could have gone either way.

Having just watched a GIF of the picture I mentioned, Boyce definitely was pulled (quickly) around the 9.

Both players reached out with their arms, at almost the exact same millisecond, and they jockeyed for position, and that's all that was. If that was something generally called as PI, Aquib Talib would be out of football. Furthermore, that's not where the call was.

And a quick whistle is nowhere near the mistake of a blown call with the game on the line.

 

[Patsrock]

And a quick whistle is nowhere near the mistake of a blown call with the game on the line.

It can be when it is a 10 point swing. Instead of being up 7-0, Pats were down 3-0

 

[patfanken]

Just want to point out that we've seen two to three angles, plenty of replays and constantly repeating gifs and still can't all agree. The ref got one look at it. This is why all the talk about bad calls and bias irks me. Being a ref is a damn difficult job. Mistakes will be made.

BUT NOT IN THIS CASE. The ref was right there in great position to see live what we saw many times over in the clip.

Making the catch an not was a matter of inches. Can we all agree with that. Also I think we can all agree that the defender inhibited/slowed down Boyce near the GL. How is that NOT PI, That's the freakin' definition of PI. Forget about the issue of "contact". There were tugs as pulls. He kept the receiver from getting those additional 12-24 inches that would have made this discussion moot.

And why is the the 4th time I've had to say the same thing The neysayers don't refute the salient facts, just the results. And that makes no sense.

DI is either instigating, attempting to be ironic, or just simply is ignoring the facts. He does all three more times than not

 

[Deus Irae]

It can be when it is a 10 point swing. Instead of being up 7-0, Pats were down 3-0

It's still not as bad. Outcomes may be similarly impacted, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the nature (and in this case, the timing) of the errors. One's a completely blown call. The other is just a whistle blown a split second too soon.

Triplette screwing up the downs last week is a bigger screw up, too, as another example.

 

[Patsrock]

It's still not as bad. Outcomes may be similarly impacted, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the nature (and in this case, the timing) of the errors. One's a completely blown call. The other is just a whistle blown a split second too soon.

Triplette screwing up the downs last week is a bigger screw up, too, as another example.

I don't think the PI was a blown call. The whistle was a blown call. Take the timing out of the game, which shouldn't ever be a consideration. If same thing happens in 1st should be called.

 

[Deus Irae]

I don't think the PI was a blown call.

It was clearly a blown call. Patriots fans are clowning themselves by trying to pretend it wasn't.

The whistle was a blown call. Take the timing out of the game, which shouldn't ever be a consideration. If same thing happens in 1st should be called.

No, the whistle was not a blown call. The whistle was a whistle, which is how you end plays. It was simply blown about 4/10ths of a second too quickly.

 

[Patsrock]

It was clearly a blown call. Patriots fans are clowning themselves by trying to pretend it wasn't.



No, the whistle was not a blown call. The whistle was a whistle, which is how you end plays. It was simply blown about 4/10ths of a second too quickly.

Disagree on both.

How are Patriots fans clowning themselves. It was not clearly a blown call by any means.

A early whistle is a blown call. And they ended the play too early thus is a blown call.

 

[manxman2601]

BUT NOT IN THIS CASE. The ref was right there in great position to see live what we saw many times over in the clip.

Making the catch an not was a matter of inches. Can we all agree with that. Also I think we can all agree that the defender inhibited/slowed down Boyce near the GL. How is that NOT PI, That's the freakin' definition of PI. Forget about the issue of "contact". There were tugs as pulls. He kept the receiver from getting those additional 12-24 inches that would have made this discussion moot.

And why is the the 4th time I've had to say the same thing The neysayers don't refute the salient facts, just the results. And that makes no sense.

DI is either instigating, attempting to be ironic, or just simply is ignoring the facts. He does all three more times than not

You have to say it four times because it's clearly not as cut and dried as you think it is. You see a tug where I see incidental contact. Unless you think I'm blind, stupid or disingenuous then maybe, just maybe you might think that things aren't quite so clear cut as you are making out. Anyway, it's fine to disagree, as we do.

 

[Deus Irae]

Disagree on both...

:noidea:

You'd be pissed if the teams were reversed, because you'd be screaming that the PI was bogus. It is what it is. You're among many here who've chosen to go the willful blindness route.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

It was either

1) a blown call because there was no PI.

or

2) a blown call because the spot was wrong and it should have been spotted at the 9 yard line.

The contact at the 9 yard line is at least arguably significant. I can't find any way to call the contact in the end zone as significant, even with my Pats colored glasses on.

 

[Patsrock]

:noidea:

You'd be pissed if the teams were reversed, because you'd be screaming that the PI was bogus. It is what it is. You're among many here who've chosen to go the willful blindness route.

Sorry you are wrong about me. I had no problem with no call in Carolina and no problem with the McCourty call in Carolina. You don't jack about what I would say. You make assumptions on everyone here like this all the time.

 

[Froob]

Shouldn't have been in the endzone but, there was contact. There could have been pass interference called on that last play vs Atlanta that Talib broke up too. But, that's life. Pats haven't gotten a pass interference call in forever. Denver almost beat them because of it.