Are we the Redskins?

[Remix 6]

No were not the Redskins by any means

They signed
-Archuleta to the biggest safety contract in NFL(before Ed Reed got resigned) and clearly he was not that good..he cant cover and he misses tackles


-Randel El. a PR/2nd-3rd WR like welker but with more speed and he got 7 yrs $31 mil. Thats $4.4 per year..Welker is at $3.26 per year

-Carter who seemed to be decling and not fitting in San Fran got 6 year $30 million deal and hes been pretty good actually.

-Brandon Lloyd for a 2nd and something else AFTER signing Randel El and got a big contract i forget what though

-David Patten few years back got a huge contract and we know him well enough to let him walk and take the money

we got
-Adalius Thomas: 7.5 per year i think..what was it 5 years $37.5 deal but hes a pro bowler unlike any of the skins guys

-Kyle Brady..2 years $5 mill for a guy who'll be there every down almost as a blocker

-Sammy Morris got a small contract..2 years $3 mill i believe..for a backup

-Welker for a 2nd and a 5 years $18 million or something

-Stallworth might sign but we dont know yet

Salary has increased and we are paying more than we would last year but we didnt break the bank like they did on every player. Only 1 with a big contrat is Thomas..anything under $3.5 million per year isnt that much.

 

[jcdavey]

are the pats the redskins? not yet, that question can't even be answered till the 07 season is over.

signing a bunch of free agents usually never works though, but maybe the pats will be different.....

 

[jcdavey]

oh and the redskins only have like 4 draft picks , the pats have what? 7 still?

pats are doing a good redskins impression but they'd have to trade more draft picks away to really look like them.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

How else would you describe this 180 from the way they won 3 Super Bowls and their rumored interest in Randy Moss?

Because we've never had the type of money we do right now. We have the money that we do right now because of how we've spent since Belichick has been here.

As someone else mentioned, we're filling needs, not just blindly adding good players for one last gasp. Thomas fits in perfectly with what we do on defense.

With Welker, it's not like the Falcons when they signed Price. They needed him to be the #1, he had no help and it didn't work. Welker is coming here to be another weapon, not be THE guy. His skill set is perfect for what we need.

With Stallworth, if signed, we get the deep threat that we've been missing.

Again, there's a purpose for everyone, we're not just making the roster look nicer.

I've read on ESPN that the Moss rumors are way overblown but even if they're true it doesn't signal desperation. The Patriots traded for Dillon when they saw a need at RB and the opportunity to pick up a good one. It worked.

And it's not a complete 180 of how we won Super Bowls. In 2003, we signed several top free agents. The difference between then and now is how early we're signing them.

 

[AirForcePatFan]

We will already be in Indy. The Pats come to Indianapolis the next 3 years.

:snob: Well then, we will save you a trip... How bout kick ya out of your own dome!! :singing:

 

[DGreen28]

You can't buy a ring. The Redskins proved that. Just a little nervous considering we won 3 super bowls being more frugal and staying flexible.

Dan Snyder is slowly learning the ropes. Our problem originally was signing guys past their prime... then we started getting relatively good players but overpayed them and mortgaged draft picks... now those guys are getting older and injury prone, so our resulting lack of young depth has killed us.

A lot of people fail to realize that we got guys like Marcus Washington, Randy Thomas, Chris Samuels, Casey Rabach, Clinton Portis, Santana Moss, Cornelius Griffin, and Shawn Springs primarily through trades and free agency. They have all been tremendous talents for us when healthy but (with the exception of Portis) are all in or approaching their 30s after several years with us.

You guys will be fine... if there is one thing you know how to do its draft and develop talent behind your starters. A few big signings every now and then is no problem so long as you still draft well and keep most of your picks.

redskins are desperate, we fill needs.

Desperate? Not especially. We fill needs through free agency, we just don't do it effectively (see above).

the Skins sign good-but-not-great guys to big deals every year with little thought to the cap.

Truth. However, the Skins have one of the best cap-management strategies in the NFL. After signing Fletcher and Smoot we are still an estimated 8.3 million under the cap. A few weeks before free agency we were 6 million over the cap.

oh and the redskins only have like 4 draft picks , the pats have what? 7 still?

pats are doing a good redskins impression but they'd have to trade more draft picks away to really look like them.

Spot on. Fortunately, we played so poorly on D and so inconcistently with our QB controversy last year that our first round pick can haul us 3-4 more picks (atleast two first day) if necessary.

They signed
-Archuleta to the biggest safety contract in NFL(before Ed Reed got resigned) and clearly he was not that good..he cant cover and he misses tackles

-Randel El. a PR/2nd-3rd WR like welker but with more speed and he got 7 yrs $31 mil. Thats $4.4 per year..Welker is at $3.26 per year

-Carter who seemed to be decling and not fitting in San Fran got 6 year $30 million deal and hes been pretty good actually.

-Brandon Lloyd for a 2nd and something else AFTER signing Randel El and got a big contract i forget what though

-David Patten few years back got a huge contract and we know him well enough to let him walk and take the money

Archuleta played decently for us, he was our leading tackler before he got benched because we were trying to play a Cover 2 with the wrong personnel all season. Our CBs are better suited for man coverage and Arch simply can't play that deep zone, he'd have been better suited for our blitz heavy '04 defense.

Carter has been as good as advertised, although he started slow. His problem in San Fran was that they tried to make him a 3-4 OLB and he's a prototypical 4-3 end.

Randle El has also been as advertised. He was decent as a receiver but didn't get enough balls thrown his way and, considering the FA market this year, was signed to a fair contract. I'd say that giving up a 2nd for Welker makes that a slightly worse deal for you than El was for us, but overall the two are similarish enough.

Gave up a 3rd and 4th (not 2nd) for Lloyd... and he was disappointing. He has one season to prove himself with (hopefully) better QBing before he probably gets cut.

Patten was a disaster... guy never really sees the field (always sick or injured) but is still on our roster because he became somewhat of a locker room leader.

Salary has increased and we are paying more than we would last year but we didnt break the bank like they did on every player. Only 1 with a big contrat is Thomas..anything under $3.5 million per year isnt that much.

By that logic, our signings last year were for a pretty good value (sans Archuleta) considering the talent or demand of the players at the time. With the possible exception of Welker, you guys really haven't gone overboard at all.

Wooh... long post. Oh well, thats what I get for trying to clarify/explain the difference between the Pats and Skins.

 

[TomBradyWoot]

are the pats the redskins? not yet, that question can't even be answered till the 07 season is over.

signing a bunch of free agents usually never works though, but maybe the pats will be different.....

Actually, the Pats always sign a bunch of free agents, just not the big names. I think we signed like 20-something before the 2001 season. I don't see this off-season being much different than the 2003 one.

 

[jcdavey]

Actually, the Pats always sign a bunch of free agents, just not the big names. I think we signed like 20-something before the 2001 season. I don't see this off-season being much different than the 2003 one.

i think it's vastly different because of the thomas move obviously (top FA available IMO) that and all the randy moss stallworth rumors , pats just never make this much big news, it's out of character

 

[FulhamPatriot]

Stallworth gives me the creeps too! He has never had a season over 1,000 yards or more than 7 TD's His BEST year was the one before last. He gained 945 yds. and had 7 TD's. Not exactly eye popping. Last year he had a very impressive Yards per catch. A little over 18 I believe but only like 700 + yards and 5 TD's. If we sign him I hope it's not for a ton of money or it includes plenty of performance bonuses!

You could almost be talking about Deion Branch!

 

[ChoWZa]

The Adalius Thomas signing was perfect, and a no brainer, if he wasn't available the Patriots would not have spent that money on anyone else. Second guessing Adalius is silly. The pats did what they had to do this offseason. They signed the best free agent who coincidentally plays the position we needed to fill most. He's a veteran and he's versatile. Its an all around no brainer. To not sign him would have been stupid to me.

Wes Welker will prove his worth too. Pats were forced to sign FA receivers or give rookies who may be a bust too much play time. The Patriots could afford to sign these guys and couldn't afford not to. Bottom line.

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

wow, a 'Skins fan. Don't you know I come here to get away from you guys?

Something that often gets forgotten with the Redskins is that they took a playoff team and switched offenses and defenses. You can't really blame the players for that (though I'll gladly blame Gibbs and Snyder).

For you guys who don't live in the DC area there was nothing funnier than being fed on a daily basis the "we're not showing anything in the preseason, trust us when we say we'll be fine once the regular season starts" and "we're only showing 3% of a 700 play playbook." After every ugly preseason demolishing (the Patriots delivering the most embarassing one) Redskins fans would keep going on about this mystical 700 page playbook (my favorite take on it was from John Thompson, who took a break from basketball to chime in "you're better off running 5 plays the guys can execute than 700 plays they can't") and talking in awe of the all-star coaching staff. And Gibbs interviews where he acknowledged that the team was tanking the preseason yet assured they'd be able to turn on the switch were priceless.

DGreen28, you seem to be a good guy and have your head screwed on straight when it comes to the Skins. nothing personal at you but I will continue to enjoy the failure of the Redskins. I will admit though that the Patriots could only dream of having such a nutty fan base.

 

[sebman2112]

Amen, Brother Salty!

Stallworth gives me the creeps. I sense a real cancer there, though not Moss level 4th stage lung cancer. Hopefully the offer he did/did not sign is laden heavier than a Grand Canyon mule with incentives.

Stallworth is nothing close to a cancer. Both the Eagles, and the Saints have said he was a good lockerroom guy.

 

[sebman2112]

How else would you describe this 180 from the way they won 3 Super Bowls and their rumored interest in Randy Moss?

That is a total misconception. in 2003, and 2004 NE brought in some of the higher level free agents on the market, and from 2002-2004 they made a ton of trades. Basically, you're talking out of your ass.

 

[DGreen28]

wow, a 'Skins fan. Don't you know I come here to get away from you guys?

Something that often gets forgotten with the Redskins is that they took a playoff team and switched offenses and defenses. You can't really blame the players for that (though I'll gladly blame Gibbs and Snyder).

We didn't switch defenses, Gregg Williams just seemed to go temporarily insane this season. Granted, we have been slowly getting worse on D since 2004... lots of injuries and aging players without an influx of fresh talent.

For you guys who don't live in the DC area there was nothing funnier than being fed on a daily basis the "we're not showing anything in the preseason, trust us when we say we'll be fine once the regular season starts" and "we're only showing 3% of a 700 play playbook." After every ugly preseason demolishing (the Patriots delivering the most embarassing one) Redskins fans would keep going on about this mystical 700 page playbook (my favorite take on it was from John Thompson, who took a break from basketball to chime in "you're better off running 5 plays the guys can execute than 700 plays they can't") and talking in awe of the all-star coaching staff. And Gibbs interviews where he acknowledged that the team was tanking the preseason yet assured they'd be able to turn on the switch were priceless.

Not showing anything during the preseason was a huge mistake. However, I gotta say that it wasn't the playbook that was the problem. Our offensive line was half-assing for much of the season and Brunell just COULDN'T throw more than 15 yards in the games he started. After the season's midpoint we started to look better, but who really knows what that was (there is that whole "Gibbs took back control" theory). You should probably brush up on your history, though... the preseason usually doesn't indicate much of anything and some of the Skins' best seasons as a franchise have come after miserable preseasons.

DGreen28, you seem to be a good guy and have your head screwed on straight when it comes to the Skins. nothing personal at you but I will continue to enjoy the failure of the Redskins. I will admit though that the Patriots could only dream of having such a nutty fan base.

Trust me, I enjoy it when you guys choke just as much as you do when the Skins choke. I think that without striking gold with your 6th round selection of Brady no one would be applauding Belichick like they do right now and there is no way in hell you'd have won those Super Bowls. I also chuckle at the concept that its the system employed by your coaches thats behind the magic... when its more or less just some very good talent scouts and a pretty obvious (as opposed to inventive) philosophy when it comes to money, re-signings, free agency, and the draft.

I won't disagree that there are a large number of Redskins fans who are over-the-top nuts or incredible blind homers... but hey, there are a lot more Redskins fans in general out there than there are fans of many other teams. Don't forget that you have your fair share of loons as well.

 

[zippo59]

How else would you describe this 180 from the way they won 3 Super Bowls and their rumored interest in Randy Moss?

The Patriots have made big player acquisitions before each of their Superbowls, a-hole.

 

[Maroney TD]

I won't disagree that there are a large number of Redskins fans who are over-the-top nuts or incredible blind homers... but hey, there are a lot more Redskins fans in general out there than there are fans of many other teams. Don't forget that you have your fair share of loons as well.

Brady in the 6th was pretty good. The highest they ever drafted was 6th and they grabbed Seymour so at least they don't mess up top picks like many franchises. The Pats also drafted Givens in the 7th round. Banta-Cain (who just signed with the 49ers) was a 7th round pick as well. Asante Samuel (one of the best CB in football) was a 4th round pick.

The biggest thing for the Pats is that they haven't had a bust from the 1st round. Not many teams can say that.

Granted the Redskins usually trade away all their draft picks so they don't have many 1st rounders to use. In 2006 the Skins had exactly 1 pick in the first 4 rounds. Hard to mess up when you don't draft.

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

DGreen28:

I was just saying that all you heard about on DC sports talk leading up to this season was the 700 page playbook. I'm not saying the playcalling was a negative but the thing was held up to mythical status. "Look upon the 700 page playbook and stand in awe!"

I am fully aware that the Redskins won like 1 game in the '87 and '91 preseasons. I agree that preseason records mean nothing. The Redskins were looking absolutely horrific this preseason, unable to do anything and people would fall back on the fact that preseason records mean nothing. Their preseason record wasn't the issue, it was the performance.

I never understood them starting Brunell as long as they did. They had a QB who couldn't get it done and stuck with him because they didn't know what else to do. At least you guys have hope with Campbell.

Sometimes it bothers me that NE players can be afterthoughts in light of their coaching, but I really believe the coaching is just that good and that important. A nobody can step on the field and perform in NE and we aren't really surprised, which speaks to preparation and schemes (two stables of this coaching staff).

As for Brady, a lot of his success is due to the fact that the coaches never labeled him as just a 6th round pick and a back-up. After 1 year Belichick already knew he was a better QB than Bledsoe. They prepared him for the job so he was ready when Drew got hurt and didn't give the job back to Bledsoe when Brady took it away. They would not have won the title in '01 if Bledsoe didn't get hurt but Drew would likely have been gone in '02. Also, NE saw in Brady what they were looking for in a QB. Are they lucky no one else saw it? Yes. Are they lucky he turned out to be great? I'll give the credit to Brady and the Patriots on that one, not luck.

And when it comes to the obvious philosophy NE takes to the cap/signings/etc. you might want to consider that the philosophy isn't as important as the restraint. everyone can see that responsible spending is better than irresponsible, yet they still fall into the trap of being "one player away" or convince themselves that they need to keep a player at any cost. It's the willingness to walk away when the deal is not to their liking which seperates NE from many teams.

 

[Fogbuster]

How else would you describe this 180 from the way they won 3 Super Bowls and their rumored interest in Randy Moss?

The Pats could digest that other "cancer", Corey Dillon, so what's the prob with Moss? He would still have to go through a complete check-out before he got signed; if he puked he'd be given the door. No big deal. Otoh, if he steps up, the Colts are in for some serious sh!t next year. As if they weren't already.




//

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

Wow! Now Stallworth is a done deal (Adam Schefter per Sirius radio NFL) I love most of the moves thus far, except the compensation for Welker and I'm leery about Stallworth. After the dust settles I have to see what this means to our cap. You can't buy a ring. The Redskins proved that. Just a little nervous considering we won 3 super bowls being more frugal and staying flexible.

I live in Virginia and am surrounded by Redskin fans... I can assure you that we are NOT the Redskins.

Snyder has a history of overpaying for FA that aren't worth it... David Patten, Adam Archuletta, DJ Tuckett (not sure of his contract, but the trade compensation was too high), Mark Brunell... I'm too lazy to even turn and ask my coworkers for more examples... believe me, there are plenty of them.

We only pay high for sure things and usually settle for second tier players for low/fair prices. Some of those guys turn out to be very solid players and some blow chunks.

With the redskins, they end up wasting money on overpriced players that are mediocre at best.

 

[PatsSteve1]

Yes.

The Pats are desperate - a lot of money spent for mediocre-to-good players. I wouldn't even call Adalius Thomas a great player.

* One SB after years of not winning it like they were supposed to and now your a footbal genius -