Ras-I Dowling released

[Kontradiction]

Only if you are willing to ignore reality.

Not really. Three TD's vs. Four INT's (I don't count fumble recoveries as "skill plays) isn't that big of a difference. Factor in Wilson's draft position vs. where he would have probably gone if the Pats weren't drunk at that point in the draft and you have the bigger bust of the two right now. Of course, I'm all for Wilson changing that. I just don't see how that's going to happen and he very well could be a surprise cut when we get down the 53 (though I doubt it).

 

[Brady6]

Oh really?

NFL Stats - CBSSports.com

Kaepernick - 95.7
Tebow - 17.7

Tim Tebow is DEAD LAST in passer rating this preseason.

Thank you for pointing this out, it was my error I did not account for Kaepernick’s stats in the 49ers 3rd preseason game in which he went 7/13, 72 passing yards, and 1 touchdown, prior to that his rating was lower than Tebow’s thru the same games. I did edit my previous post to reflect the information you provide, thanks again!

For the record though my post was not a comparison of Tebow and Kaepernick, it was in reference to the poster who suggested Kaepernick would have been a better heir apparent to Brady, and I was saying I do not know if that is a given because Kaepernick has been given an opportunity to start and Mallett has not, therefore it is not an apple to apple comparison, it currently Kaepernick is the better QB, however is that because of circumstances, or if Mallett was given the same opportunity as Kaepernick could the outlook of the 2 change.

 

[Ozymandias]

Dowling passed through waivers unclaimed. I guess the rest of the league feels that he's damaged goods at this point.

Patriots cut CB Ras-I Dowling

 

[Brady6]

Biggest bust? Not even close, Tavon has already done more than Chad Jackson did in his career.

If you meant "reach" see ^above^.

If you look at the statistics of the DB’s taken in the first two rounds of the draft last season, I have a really hard time referring to Tavon Wilson as a bust, did he make mistakes, yes just as all rookies did, if you’re getting hung up on a rookie safety (who played CB his final year in college) miss playing two deep balls that occurred on bootlegs taking the QB outside of the pocket I think you’re going to disappointed by every DB drafted. Has Tavon been disappointing this season thus far, yes, would I consider him a bust, no, anyone who does is allowing their opinion of him to swayed by Mel Kiper Jr. and ESPN having a “Who” moment during his draft selection, here is a nice quote from the guru himself Mel Kiper Jr. "I think Ryan Leaf is more mature than Drew Bledsoe, he's very much a grown up 21 year old." Enough said!!

Games Snaps Tckl Sack FF FR Int PD STF
Claiborne 15 909 43 0 1 2 1 8 1
Barron 16 1105 71 0 1 0 1 10 5
Gilmore 16 1082 52 0 3 0 1 16 1
H. Smith 16 1067 74 1 1 1 3 11 1
Kirkpatrick 5 43 4 0 0 0 0 0 0
Jenkins 15 982 64 0 0 1 4 14 3
T. Wilson 16 476 28 0 0 2 4 6 0
Hayward 16 703 40 0 1 0 6 21 1

 

[KG5]

I'm surprised that no one put in a claim. He's still young and is big and athletic and has had good coaching. I would be shocked if someone doesn't give him a chance in the next couple days.

 

[BTTA]

A weird combination of insecurity, bitterness and envy. I generally think that people whose lives kinda suck enjoy opportunities like this to feel superior to an NFL player who spent his whole life working to get to the NFL and actually achieved that goal.

Times like this represent an extremely brief opportunity for anyone, no matter how inconsequential they are, to put a guy like Dowling 'in his place'. The funny thing is, even if he never plays another day in the NFL, Dowling has accomplished way more in his field than almost all of his detractors ever will in their own.

For the life of me, I'll never explain where people who spend half their workday posting on Patsfans get off calling an NFL player weak or lazy. If I had half the work ethic of the average NFL player, I'd probably be doing my actual job right now, instead of... you know, posting here.

Well said. And another thing for Dowling - he had multiple offers from colleges but chose one where he actually got a top 10% college education. Football players at Virginia don't have a different college program set up for them like most schools do; they get the same degree as non-athletes. The guy is set for life with character, knowledge, and work habits that will make him successful, and as you've pointed out, probably won't be spending much of it posting on internet message boards like the rest of us here.

 

[Oswlek]

Not really. Three TD's vs. Four INT's (I don't count fumble recoveries as "skill plays) isn't that big of a difference. Factor in Wilson's draft position vs. where he would have probably gone if the Pats weren't drunk at that point in the draft and you have the bigger bust of the two right now. Of course, I'm all for Wilson changing that. I just don't see how that's going to happen and he very well could be a surprise cut when we get down the 53 (though I doubt it).

Please. It took Tavon all of half a season to amass those totals, compared to Chad Jackson's entire career. Plus, you ignore that picks are much less frequent than TDs (check out the league leaders, typically the top TD guy has twice what the top int guy has).

And whether they were a "reach" or a "steal" is entirely irrelevant, other than it seems to have planted an enormous bug up your arse. Jackson was selected higher, 36th overall, and required two picks in a trade where NE paid a rather large premium. If you are factoring in draft day shenanigans, then Jackson comes out worse there, too.

The only guy who even has an argument over Jackson in worst draft pick category is the guy who this thread is dedicated to. Tavon is comfortably below both of them, as well as Brace and Crable, though I might be willing to listen on that last one.

 

[neuronet]

Good, no more having to listen to people defend him on this board. He was a bust, plain and true. Nothing personal, just not good for our team. I wish him well in the future.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

All this talk of "worst" this and "worst" that reminds me of back in the day when my buddies and I used to debate which was worst ..... a Pinto, A Pacer, a Gremlin or a Yugo.

In reality, they all sucked equally well.

 

[Kontradiction]

Please. It took Tavon all of half a season to amass those totals, compared to Chad Jackson's entire career. Plus, you ignore that picks are much less frequent than TDs (check out the league leaders, typically the top TD guy has twice what the top int guy has).

This is what you orginally posted...

Biggest bust? Not even close, Tavon has already done more than Chad Jackson did in his career.

You didn't set the parameter at "well it only took him half a season", so I compared their numbers straight up. It's 3 TD's vs. 4 picks. Multiple picks were the ball being thrown, quite literally, right at him. After that, as you know, Wilson got benched. But if Wilson were to be cut prior to Week 1 this season, he would seal it as the bigger bust of the two because you'd have to take all that into account plus the fact that he would be the first 2nd round pick in the Belichick era on this team to be cut before his second season.

And whether they were a "reach" or a "steal" is entirely irrelevant, other than it seems to have planted an enormous bug up your arse.

Sure it is. It tells you of their draft position vs. where they were going to go. If you think it's irrelevant then you must think that Wilson would still be considered a "bust" if he were drafted in say, the sixth or the seventh round. Where he was more than likely going to go if Belichick didn't go full ****** with that pick.

Jackson was selected higher, 36th overall, and required two picks in a trade where NE paid a rather large premium. If you are factoring in draft day shenanigans, then Jackson comes out worse there, too.

If we're going to bring up what it cost to get Jackson, then whether or not Wilson was a reach is fair game.

Just an observation and not really anything to do with the debate at hand, but I think it's somewhat amusing (if not sad due to the consequences it brings to the team) how the argument for Tavon has gone from the ferocity that it was after the 2012 draft to "he wouldn't be the biggest bust in the Belichick era", in one year. That alone should tell even the most casual fan how bad he looked in 2012 and should be a good lesson on why you can't simply take stats like that and post them without context.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Unsurprisingly, Dowling has officially cleared waivers.

 

[Gronkandez]

Unsurprisingly, Dowling has officially cleared waivers.

I was kind of surprised bc people keep saying how he is a great talent when healthy. I've never seen it.

 

[Ozymandias]

I was kind of surprised bc people keep saying how he is a great talent when healthy. I've never seen it.

Dowling was definitely talented enough to be a first rounder. His first injury with the Patriots probably affected more than most people care to realize. Last year he looked nothing like the player he was in 2011 for the brief time he was on the active roster.

I surmise the reason why he went unclaimed is probably because the league perception/reality of him is that he's damaged goods and too far gone to ever amount to anything productive, and not because of talent or lack thereof.

Teams were probably asking themselves why bother signing him if his track record shows that he's just going to end up injured again. The rigors of the NFL might be too much for his body to handle.

 

[supafly]

Dowling passed through waivers unclaimed. I guess the rest of the league feels that he's damaged goods at this point.

Patriots cut CB Ras-I Dowling

I'm surprised that no one put in a claim. He's still young and is big and athletic and has had good coaching. I would be shocked if someone doesn't give him a chance in the next couple days.

The issue isn't necessarily that no one wanted him. It's more to do with the fact that he had 315,000 dollars worth of guaranteed money that would have come with him had someone put in a waivers claim.

My guess is that someone will definitely take a shot with him now that he made it through waivers and is a FA.

 

[ausbacker]

For every one post that is filled with logic, there's two to three filled with garbage. It honestly amazes me that people are demonstrating animosity toward Ras-I Dowling because his career has been derailed by injuries.

I'm sure Dowling thinks it's just fantastic that his NFL dream is most likely over because his body hasn't allowed him to reach whatever potential he had.

 

[Observer]

To say that Dowling had all the skills to be a first rounder but was just unlucky with injuries therefore the pick was good is disingenuous. We have seen too many supposed top skill first rounders bust for that line of argument to hold water.
The only way you can tell if a player is any good is if he actually plays. That is the very least I would expect a player to do. Fine, don't play well, but at least play! If you are out there you have some chance to be successful but if you can't even make it to the field then your chance of success is a big fat ZERO. That to me makes Dowling a Mega-Bust.

 

[Oswlek]

This is what you orginally posted...

Biggest bust? Not even close, Tavon has already done more than Chad Jackson did in his career.

You didn't set the parameter at "well it only took him half a season", so I compared their numbers straight up. It's 3 TD's vs. 4 picks. Multiple picks were the ball being thrown, quite literally, right at him. After that, as you know, Wilson got benched. But if Wilson were to be cut prior to Week 1 this season, he would seal it as the bigger bust of the two because you'd have to take all that into account plus the fact that he would be the first 2nd round pick in the Belichick era on this team to be cut before his second season.



Sure it is. It tells you of their draft position vs. where they were going to go. If you think it's irrelevant then you must think that Wilson would still be considered a "bust" if he were drafted in say, the sixth or the seventh round. Where he was more than likely going to go if Belichick didn't go full ****** with that pick.



If we're going to bring up what it cost to get Jackson, then whether or not Wilson was a reach is fair game.

Just an observation and not really anything to do with the debate at hand, but I think it's somewhat amusing (if not sad due to the consequences it brings to the team) how the argument for Tavon has gone from the ferocity that it was after the 2012 draft to "he wouldn't be the biggest bust in the Belichick era", in one year. That alone should tell even the most casual fan how bad he looked in 2012 and should be a good lesson on why you can't simply take stats like that and post them without context.

1) I know I set the parameters.

2) 3TDs does not equal 4 picks no matter how many were thrown right at him. As I mentioned before, 4 picks translates to about 8 TDs, ergo it isn't equal value.

3) No, "reach" doesn't come into the discussion at all, and even if it does, I've already demonstrated that Jackson's draft tomfoolery actually outweighs Tavons.

4) I agree that it is sad, though Wilson hasn's been nearly as bad the past two weeks. I'm holding out hope for you Tavon! :rocker:

 

[Oswlek]

To say that Dowling had all the skills to be a first rounder but was just unlucky with injuries therefore the pick was good is disingenuous. We have seen too many supposed top skill first rounders bust for that line of argument to hold water.
The only way you can tell if a player is any good is if he actually plays. That is the very least I would expect a player to do. Fine, don't play well, but at least play! If you are out there you have some chance to be successful but if you can't even make it to the field then your chance of success is a big fat ZERO. That to me makes Dowling a Mega-Bust.

This isn't true at all. First rounders are selected based on the merit of their college performance, not their NFL.

Obviously there is value to an after-the-fact discussion, but teams don't have access to that information at the time they make the pick.

And, sure we've seen plenty of injured guys continue to get hurt. We've also seen guys like Gronk and Cannon pan out as well, so you can't have it both ways.

If NE had consistently misfired on draftees with injury issues, then I would gladly say NE should audit their scouting process. But they don't, so I'm not seeing the big deal. It was a bad pick; a risk that came up snake eyes. Such is life.

 

[condon84]

This is the worst pick in the BB era simply for the fact that when Dowling came out of college, every scouting report I read about him cautioned his injury history as a major red flag. For BB to use his very first pick on a guy like that was nuts. It's not like Dowling was such an exceptional player that the risk was worth taking.

 

[Sciz]

This is the worst pick in the BB era simply for the fact that when Dowling came out of college, every scouting report I read about him cautioned his injury history as a major red flag. For BB to use his very first pick on a guy like that was nuts. It's not like Dowling was such an exceptional player that the risk was worth taking.

So after Dowling only missed significant time in his senior season of college (after playing 35 games his first three), Belichick was supposed to predict that he would be hurt for basically his entire NFL career?