Top 20 Greatest Coaches in NFL History

[The Brandon Five]

Belichick not even in ESPN's top 5

Greatest Coaches: Belichick No. 7 - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

I suppose losing two Super Bowls to inferior teams hurt him...we know the truth.

 

[PatsDeb]

Belichick not even in ESPN's top 5

Greatest Coaches: Belichick No. 7 - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

LOL, glad I didn't bother with the link or reading the long explanations. I was sitting at a bar last night when the program started playing on the TV (couldn't hear any sound). I was glad I couldn't hear any sound when St. Dungy came up as the the first (No. 20) on the list.

Edit - how come all the other ESPN "personalities" were on the panel but not Tedi Bruschi?

 

[mgteich]

Which is? that he lost 2 Super Bowls to inferior teams?

I suppose losing two Super Bowls to inferior teams hurt him...we know the truth.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Belichick not even in ESPN's top 5

Greatest Coaches: Belichick No. 7 - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

This may be recentism at work, but I don't think there's been a coach who's influenced the game more in the last half-century.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Re: Top 20 Greatest Coaches in NFL History: Tom Landry #8

Landry was a legend and an innovator. Few realize that he was DC and Lombardi was OC on the Giants before they went to Dallas and GB.
Landry, for whatever reason, struggled in the big ones. He got to an awful lot of them, and would have a much different legacy if he did better in them.

Just trying to think this out, not argue.

"struggled in the big ones." Not sure that's fair terminology though I guess it is intended to reflect the fact that Landry was 2--3 in SB's.

Belichick, as HC, is 3--2 in SB's. my question would be that if 2--3 = "struggled," then what is "3--2?" "Won more than he lost but couldn't deliver on the big stage twice?" In any event, I don't think it's fair to characterize either as "struggling" in those games.

Paul Brown was 3--4 in Championship games. How do we characterize that?

Isn't an HC's greatness a function of his body of work? Otherwise, we have to lionize Chuck Noll (4--0), Bill Walsh (3--0), Joe Gibbs (3--1), Weeb Ewbank (3--0) at the expense of Brown and Landry and Sid Gillman (1--5) and even BB at 3--2. I'm not sure I'm ready to do that, despite the greatness of those four HC's.

Your comment raises interesting questions. Thanks.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Which is? that he lost 2 Super Bowls to inferior teams?

Fourth best playoff record.

Third highest win percentage in history (overall). Record with Patriots is highest in history.

Only coach to have four seasons with 14 wins or more.

Only coach to have five seasons with 13 wins or more.

First coach to have nine straight seasons with 10 or more wins.

 

[Jackson 2]

Belichick not even in ESPN's top 5

Greatest Coaches: Belichick No. 7 - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Very interesting Sportsnation vote: 83% think #7 is too low, 13% think it's about right and 4% think it's too high. Frankly, I think that's shocking, but I'm pleasantly shocked.

 

[Ivan]

Can't believe Dungy was #20 and Manning apparently didn't even make the list. That said i think it's pretty obvious that Belichick is the highest rated active coach, and although I believe he is the GOAT it will still take some work in the eyes of some for him to achieve that rank. That's fine with me as it is only more motivation for he and Brady and i think the team they have in place right now sets them up for another ring and possibly two before they retire. He will probably have to win two more Lombardi's to gain The Greatest status from a majority but there is also a reality where he could win ten and never get his due from a significant portion of those who weigh in on these matters

 

[SVN]

At least they wrote this

There is no question that, with an assist from the NFL, Belichick mishandled the whole Spygate mess. He never got out in front of it, didn't explain himself until it was too late. The Patriots lost a first-round draft pick in 2008 and the league fined Belichick a whopping $500,000 for illegally taping Jets coaches' hand signals during the season opener in 2007. When the league destroyed the videotapes, it served only to fuel speculation that something even bigger was being hidden.

and of course james walker
Is Belichick's ranking impacted by Spygate? - AFC East Blog - ESPN

 

[captain stone]

No names, but his initials are BB

Whoa......

BTW, #7 seems about right. What's hurt Bill's legacy more than CameraGate is first:
his & his coaching staffs' utter cluelessness during SB42; and second:
his lousy drafting from 2004-2009 that led to not having enough players who could cover, rush the passer
& beat CBs in PO losses to the NJJ (at home!), NJG (again) & the Murderers (twice, at home!!).

 

[jmt57]

I suppose losing two Super Bowls to inferior teams hurt him...we know the truth.

Not to pick on you, because I very often see that same line of reasoning from a lot of fans (and sadly, media members as well), whether it be about a team, player or coach - but there is a rather large flaw in that logic.

For example, based on that reasoning the Falcons and Packers both had a better season than the 49ers did last year since SF lost in the Super Bowl but those other two teams did not - in spite of the fact that the 49ers beat both of them in the playoffs.


The reason this logic breaks down is because not every team gets to the Super Bowl an equal number of times. It is like applying regular season logic (where all teams eventually play an equal number of games) to championship games (where all teams do not play an equal number of games.


While a loss in the Super Bowl, World Series, Stanley Cup Finals, or NBA Finals may cause a larger sting for players and fans than losing earlier in the post season (or missing the playoffs entirely), there is no logical reason to count that loss as a negative against a team, player or coach when judging their career performance - unless you also apply an equal or greater negative against every team, player or coach that did not advance that far.

To take it one step further, the same logic would mean that teams that missed the playoffs (e.g., Steelers, Jets, Jaguars) all had a better season than the 11 teams (e.g., Pats, Seahawks, Broncos) that lost at some point in the playoffs.



Getting back to the Belichick example: should he be considered to be a better coach had he gone one and done in the playoffs following the 2007 and 2011 seasons?

Let's take Belichick out of the discussion; should Marv Levy be considered to be a better coach had he lost four consecutive AFC championship games, rather than winning those four games?

That simply makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[jmt57]

Top 20 Greatest Coaches in NFL History: Bill Belichick #7

LOL, glad I didn't bother with the link or reading the long explanations. I was sitting at a bar last night when the program started playing on the TV (couldn't hear any sound). I was glad I couldn't hear any sound when St. Dungy came up as the the first (No. 20) on the list.

Edit - how come all the other ESPN "personalities" were on the panel but not Tedi Bruschi?

They do give Tedy some room on the website, even if they did not bring him on camera.

Belichick through the eyes of a player: Tedy Bruschi​

I have young kids and now that I don't play for Bill Belichick anymore, I find myself watching the games with my sons. I regularly tell them that they're watching one of the best coaches in the history of the National Football League. And your father got to play for him.

Demanding. I think that's the word that best describes it. He's not going to be your best friend. He is demanding of you every second that you are in that facility and partially when you're out of the facility also. He demands your concentration, your intelligence. Your physical being. Your effort. Everything that you can put into a football game, he demands it of you.

What made him so great was the way he taught us offensive football. How he taught us the schemes that they were running, why they were running them and why we were running a certain defense to stop them. I thought that was his best way of coaching, and that's why he demanded players with high intelligence, because you had to understand to look at it from different angles. It didn't matter if you won 15 or 21 in a row, you felt like you lost the previous game because he did such a good job of suppressing success. No matter how good the game was, he would always find those other plays that he would show you to tell you how there was still room to get better and moving onto next week, to apply it to next week.



Greatest Coaches in NFL History - Bill Belichick - ESPN

Bill Belichick has led the New England Patriots on arguably the most dominant extended stretch in NFL history. He is known for his attention to detail and defensive strategy, although his Patriots have produced some of the most prolific offensive seasons in history.

His keen eye for talent and ability to get the most out of his players has helped the Patriots maintain a high level of play year after year without a drop-off, despite their usual late draft position in a salary-cap era.

Belichick was the first coach to win at least 10 games in 10 consecutive seasons and the first to win three Super Bowls in a four-year span (2001, 2003 and 2004 seasons). He also coached the Patriots to the NFL's first 16-0 regular season in 2007 (although they lost the Super Bowl to the New York Giants). That 2007 team set a league record by averaging 36.8 points per game. The 2011 Patriots were Belichick's fifth Super Bowl team (and second to lose to the Giants).

Belichick ranked ninth in career coaching wins after the 2012 season, including five seasons with the Browns (1991-95) that resulted in a 36-44 record with one playoff trip. He heads into the 2013 season two playoff victories behind Tom Landry's career record (20) that has stood since the 1982 season.​

 

[jmt57]

My guess at how they will rank their remaining six:

6. - George Halas
5. - Chuck Noll
4. - Paul Brown
3. - Don Shula
2. - Bill Walsh
1. - Vince Lombardi



Personally I would put Paul Brown no lower than 2nd, and perhaps first on my list.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Whoa......

What is not recorded by history is that BB, I firmly believe, answered presciently,

"Derp."

 

[captain stone]

Pardon my ignorance, but what does "derp" mean?

 

[robbomango]

Pardon my ignorance, but what does "derp" mean?

I've seen this picture associated with the term "Derp" multiple times so I assume it means dummy...

 

[captain stone]

My guess at how they will rank their remaining six:

6. - George Halas
5. - Chuck Noll
4. - Paul Brown
3. - Don Shula
2. - Bill Walsh
1. - Vince Lombardi



Personally I would put Paul Brown no lower than 2nd, and perhaps first on my list.

There is no way that Shula should be ranked ahead of any of those guys, or ahead of Landry,
Belichick, Gibbs or Lambeau.
He was on the losing end of the biggest upset in the history of the SB, a true bollocks worse
than the turd laid by Bill in SB42.
His last dozen years were spent wheel-spinning without even an AFC title, never mind a SB title.
The mere fact that he has made it this far proves how much in the bag the 4-letter network is for him.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Top 20 Greatest Coaches in NFL History: Tom Landry #8

Just trying to think this out, not argue.

"struggled in the big ones." Not sure that's fair terminology though I guess it is intended to reflect the fact that Landry was 2--3 in SB's.

Belichick, as HC, is 3--2 in SB's. my question would be that if 2--3 = "struggled," then what is "3--2?" "Won more than he lost but couldn't deliver on the big stage twice?" In any event, I don't think it's fair to characterize either as "struggling" in those games.

Paul Brown was 3--4 in Championship games. How do we characterize that?

Isn't an HC's greatness a function of his body of work? Otherwise, we have to lionize Chuck Noll (4--0), Bill Walsh (3--0), Joe Gibbs (3--1), Weeb Ewbank (3--0) at the expense of Brown and Landry and Sid Gillman (1--5) and even BB at 3--2. I'm not sure I'm ready to do that, despite the greatness of those four HC's.

Your comment raises interesting questions. Thanks.

Not just the SBs, but Dallas was notorious for not being able to win the big one early on and it continued for most of his career.
Landry was 2-3 in 29 years, BB 3-2 in 13. BB has been in 5/13 SBs and 7/13 AFCCs. Landry was in 5 SBs in 29 years and won 1 SB in his first 10 playoff seasons and 17 seasons overall. The 2 are not a good comparison.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Not to pick on you, because I very often see that same line of reasoning from a lot of fans (and sadly, media members as well), whether it be about a team, player or coach - but there is a rather large flaw in that logic.

For example, based on that reasoning the Falcons and Packers both had a better season than the 49ers did last year since SF lost in the Super Bowl but those other two teams did not - in spite of the fact that the 49ers beat both of them in the playoffs.


The reason this logic breaks down is because not every team gets to the Super Bowl an equal number of times. It is like applying regular season logic (where all teams eventually play an equal number of games) to championship games (where all teams do not play an equal number of games.


While a loss in the Super Bowl, World Series, Stanley Cup Finals, or NBA Finals may cause a larger sting for players and fans than losing earlier in the post season (or missing the playoffs entirely), there is no logical reason to count that loss as a negative against a team, player or coach when judging their career performance - unless you also apply an equal or greater negative against every team, player or coach that did not advance that far.

To take it one step further, the same logic would mean that teams that missed the playoffs (e.g., Steelers, Jets, Jaguars) all had a better season than the 11 teams (e.g., Pats, Seahawks, Broncos) that lost at some point in the playoffs.



Getting back to the Belichick example: should he be considered to be a better coach had he gone one and done in the playoffs following the 2007 and 2011 seasons?

Let's take Belichick out of the discussion; should Marv Levy be considered to be a better coach had he lost four consecutive AFC championship games, rather than winning those four games?

That simply makes no sense whatsoever.

It's not my line of reasoning. I was just speculating why he might be lower than he should be.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Re: Top 20 Greatest Coaches in NFL History: Tom Landry #8

Not just the SBs, but Dallas was notorious for not being able to win the big one early on and it continued for most of his career.
Landry was 2-3 in 29 years, BB 3-2 in 13. BB has been in 5/13 SBs and 7/13 AFCCs. Landry was in 5 SBs in 29 years and won 1 SB in his first 10 playoff seasons and 17 seasons overall. The 2 are not a good comparison.

I only questioned the use of the words "struggled in the big ones." I still don't think it's fair to Landry.

He took his teams to 12 Conference Championships and won seven of them when only a handful of coaches have gone to half that number. I have a hard time describing that as "struggled" in big games when he navigated the Playoffs to get that far and also took his team to 36 Playoff games (no SB era HOF Coach has taken his teams to more), where he was 20--16, or 0.556 (just at the average for SB era HOF coaches in the playoffs).

Belichick's playoff performance is extraordinary at 17--7; that's the same record as Gibbs and comparable to Chuck Noll's 16--8. No one is trying to argue that he is not one of the GOATS in that category. But we have to be careful, lest our logic lead us to put Noll way over BB because he not only had a virtually identical record in the Playoffs but was also 4--0 in the big game.

It's interesting how Coaches get raps that are not always supported by the facts. Painting Landry with the brush that he struggled in big games might have been the CW in the 60's and early 70's, but it's a reputation that is not supported by the facts when viewed 40 years later and is as unfair as defining Belichick around Spygate.