Connolly - The Perfect Patriot OL

[patchick]

I'm not sure I agree with you about the last sentence. McDonald started off playing guard for Green Bay in training camp in 2010 but was switched to center for most of the season.

Yeah, I can't claim any deep insight on McDonald's best position. But I'm not ready to read too much into GB's training him at center, which might have just reflected their roster needs. (Nor am I going to read too much into the Patriots listing him on their roster as a guard.)

I think the key is that we can legitimately picture him at both positions. I wouldn't want to see either Koppen or Wendell starting at guard.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

Field Yates looks at the state of some of the players on the OL:

Early questions on Pats offensive line - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

I personally agree with his assessment that Gallery could be a very important piece of the overall puzzle.

I cringe whenever I see the name Yates in the same sentence with the Pats OL.

 

[mayoclinic]

I cringe whenever I see the name Yates in the same sentence with the Pats OL.

Yeah, the OL talent is a world removed from the days of Billy Yates, Tom Ashworth and Brandon Gorin.

 

[mayoclinic]

Yeah, I can't claim any deep insight on McDonald's best position. But I'm not ready to read too much into GB's training him at center, which might have just reflected their roster needs. (Nor am I going to read too much into the Patriots listing him on their roster as a guard.)

I think the key is that we can legitimately picture him at both positions. I wouldn't want to see either Koppen or Wendell starting at guard.

I agree that we can legitimately picture McDonald at both positions. The reason that I am more interested in him as a center is (1) greater positional value and greater difficulty finding a long term starter, and (2) the fact that he was able to step in on very short notice and perform at a high level, handling all of the line calls and the snapping duties. As McDonald noted after the Indy game, he had to make all of the blocking scheme calls based on Brady's play call. Again, I think that McDonald has an unusual combination of size, athleticism, footwork, toughness and smarts that would make him a very good center. And while Ryan Wendell is certainly better at center than at guard, I have major concerns about his ability to handle the bigger DTs.

 

[patchick]

And while Ryan Wendell is certainly better at center than at guard, I have major concerns about his ability to handle the bigger DTs.

No argument here -- is there a smaller OL in the league than Wendell? In last year's draft everybody projected Rodney Hudson as a pure center due to his size, and many were concerned about him even at that position. And Hudson is bigger than Wendell.

 

[mayoclinic]

No argument here -- is there a smaller OL in the league than Wendell? In last year's draft everybody projected Rodney Hudson as a pure center due to his size, and many were concerned about him even at that position. And Hudson is bigger than Wendell.

I'm afraid I've never been a huge Wendell fan. He reminds me of some of the makeshift OLs of previous years. He's an undersized guy with limited athleticism. He sounds like a good kid and I give him all the credit in the world for working hard and making the most of himself, and he has exceeded my expectations. But I don't think that there's much room for him to develop, and I shudder at the idea of having him as a key part of the OL rotation.

There is a certain element of wishful thinking in my hope that McDonald will develop into a quality starting center. It's a very challenging and extremely important position. Off the Grid is at his fiendish best in terms of his fanaticism for the OC position, calling it the 3rd most important position on the team after QB and DT. An ideal center really has to have QB-like ability to read the opposing defensive alignment and make the line calls. I find it interesting that McDonald was among other things a backup QB (along with a RB and TE, which obviously helped his footwork) before being moved to OL in college. In terms of his size, smarts and processing ability he reminds me a little bit of Cleveland's Alex Mack.

 

[patchick]

Off the Grid is at his fiendish best in terms of his fanaticism for the OC position

I just realized that I have been unconsciously picturing Off the Grid as looking like Borat.

 

[mgteich]

"Traditionally", we carry 5 interior linemen and 3-4 OT's. This MUST include a backup center.

Obviously if Mankins ain't ready to start the season, we will need an additional player.
=====================================================
WIT MANKINS READY FOR GAME ONE
================================================
OG/C LOCKS: Mankins, Connolly, Waters, Gallery, center (could be backup center)
OT LOCKS: Solder, Vollmer, Cannon

CENTER
We have Koppen, Wendell and MacDonald competing for the center/backup center roster spot. I don't think any of us would like to see any of these three starting at guard this year.

THE 9th ROSTER SPOT (IF THERE IS ONE)

For me, one issue is backup OT. I guess all three of our OT's can play both LT and RT. Otherwise, we need another OT on the 53 man roster (as is often the case). My "guess" is that Gallery is expected to be able to be our RT if we have 2 injuries at OT. If this is the case, we don't need a 4th OT (we would need to have an developmental LT on the Practice Squad).

Presuming that Connolly is starting at center, we need a backup OG (Gallery) and a backup center (Koppen or Wendell or MacDonald).

We could carry a 9th OL, as a developmental player or emergency backup. The presumption would be that the team didn't want to risk having this player on the Practice Squad, if this is an option at all. Given the injuries to Vollmer and Mankins, I could see us carrying the additional OL. For me, 9 is the "norm" in any case, and I am happy enough counting Gallery as the 4th OT instead adding a player for that the 4th OT "roster spot" and freeing up a roster spot for another player (perhaps MacDonald).

BOTTOM LINE
We will have 4 competitors at center, with Connolly the only player to have a lock on his roster spot (since he can start and backup all the interior OL positions). Other than Connolly, I believe that the other 3 should be considered "pure" centers, at least for 2012.

There could be a 9th OL roster spot because of the position flexibility of Connolly and Gallery (and perhaps also of Cannon). This 9th OL roster spot could be filled by several players (including someone not here yet; for example a vet backup LT). It also could be a position that is filled by committee depending on injuries during the year.

AN ASIDE
I suspect that if Koppen cannot win the starting job at center, he may still make the roster, perhaps in addition to MacDonald or Wendell. Connolly and Gallery can both start at 3 positions. If there are injuries, it the center position that needs have the most depth, since the backup centers have little position flexibility.

This gives us a very solid 8 man roster, with the option of carrying a 9th OL.

C Connolly/Koppen
OG Mankins, Waters
interior starting quality backups: Connolly/Koppen, Gallery
OT Solder, Vollmer, Cannon

 

[mayoclinic]

I just realized that I have been unconsciously picturing Off the Grid as looking like Borat.

There is something rather Sacha Baron Cohen about my fanatical brother. Though I picture him as more of a Jean Girard type from Talladega Nights:

Talladega Nights - Ricky meets Jean Girard - Video Dailymotion
My Husband Gregory - Video Dailymotion

"We invented democracy, existentialistm, and the blow job."
"Your injury is one of ignorance and pride. Au revoir."

The the part about his "husband" is a likely show stopper, however.

 

[mayoclinic]

"Traditionally", we carry 5 interior linemen and 3-4 OT's. This MUST include a backup center.

Obviously if Mankins ain't ready to start the season, we will need an additional player.
=====================================================
WIT MANKINS READY FOR GAME ONE
================================================
OG/C LOCKS: Mankins, Connolly, Waters, Gallery, center (could be backup center)
OT LOCKS: Solder, Vollmer, Cannon

CENTER
We have Koppen, Wendell and MacDonald competing for the center/backup center roster spot. I don't think any of us would like to see any of these three starting at guard this year.

THE 9th ROSTER SPOT (IF THERE IS ONE)

For me, one issue is backup OT. I guess all three of our OT's can play both LT and RT. Otherwise, we need another OT on the 53 man roster (as is often the case). My "guess" is that Gallery is expected to be able to be our RT if we have 2 injuries at OT. If this is the case, we don't need a 4th OT (we would need to have an developmental LT on the Practice Squad).

Presuming that Connolly is starting at center, we need a backup OG (Gallery) and a backup center (Koppen or Wendell or MacDonald).

We could carry a 9th OL, as a developmental player or emergency backup. The presumption would be that the team didn't want to risk having this player on the Practice Squad, if this is an option at all. Given the injuries to Vollmer and Mankins, I could see us carrying the additional OL. For me, 9 is the "norm" in any case, and I am happy enough counting Gallery as the 4th OT instead adding a player for that the 4th OT "roster spot" and freeing up a roster spot for another player (perhaps MacDonald).

BOTTOM LINE
We will have 4 competitors at center, with Connolly the only player to have a lock on his roster spot (since he can start and backup all the interior OL positions). Other than Connolly, I believe that the other 3 should be considered "pure" centers, at least for 2012.

There could be a 9th OL roster spot because of the position flexibility of Connolly and Gallery (and perhaps also of Cannon). This 9th OL roster spot could be filled by several players (including someone not here yet; for example a vet backup LT). It also could be a position that is filled by committee depending on injuries during the year.

AN ASIDE
I suspect that if Koppen cannot win the starting job at center, he may still make the roster, perhaps in addition to MacDonald or Wendell. Connolly and Gallery can both start at 3 positions. If there are injuries, it the center position that needs have the most depth, since the backup centers have little position flexibility.

This gives us a very solid 8 man roster, with the option of carrying a 9th OL.

C Connolly/Koppen
OG Mankins, Waters
interior starting quality backups: Connolly/Koppen, Gallery
OT Solder, Vollmer, Cannon

Good analysis. As you note, Robert Gallery is a bit of a wild card. You list him as a guard, but include him as a possible tackle. I've listed him as a tackle in my roster breakdowns, with the provision that he can play guard as well. I'm very curious to see what Scar can do with Gallery, and whether he stays at guard or is moved between tackle and guard. With Solder and Vollmer both having shown they can play at a starting level at either tackle spot, I could see Vollmer as the primary "backup" at LT with Cannon or Gallery taking over the RT position.

 

[Frezo]

I just realized that I have been unconsciously picturing Off the Grid as looking like Borat.

LOL! That's great! I kind of had a Marty Feldman thing going for him with one eye defiantly "Off The Grid".

 

[mayoclinic]

Gallery's media interview from last month:

Robert Gallery Interview - 5/10/2012

Of note, he talks about no decision as to whether he plays guard or tackle, and about the Pats talking about wanting to put the 5 best guys on the field.

 

[Dragda]

I like Connolly, too. I think he's purely an interior OL. I bet we work Gallery a lot at LT and RT as well as guard. He has position flexibilty. I'd love to see what he does as a tackle on our line (with good coaching and excellent chemistry).

 

[captain stone]

Yeah, the OL talent is a world removed from the days of Billy Yates, Tom Ashworth and Brandon Gorin.

I think that Ashworth was a cut above Yates & "Let 'em In" Gorin, whose shoddy protection
was one of the reasons we lost the PO game in Denver.

A better substitute would be the useless midget lil' Richie O'Burger, on whom Bill shockingly threw away
a 4th-rounder for a UDFA talent. Inconceivable.

 

[mayoclinic]

A better substitute would be the useless midget lil' Richie O'Burger, on whom Bill shockingly threw away
a 4th-rounder for a UDFA talent. Inconceivable.

I was never a fan of the Ohrnberger pick. But in all fairness, Rich Gosselin had Ohrnberger at #80 on his final 100 list, so UDFA is a stretch. Ohrnberger was a surprise on that list, to be sure - but not as big a surprise as Sebastian Vollmer at 76.

You win some, you lose some. The Pats' cut their losses from Ohrnberger and moved on.

 

[patchick]

I was never a fan of the Ohrnberger pick. But in all fairness, Rich Gosselin had Ohrnberger at #80 on his final 100 list, so UDFA is a stretch. Ohrnberger was a surprise on that list, to be sure - but not as big a surprise as Sebastian Vollmer at 76.

You win some, you lose some. The Pats' cut their losses from Ohrnberger and moved on.

I agree, and the phrase "shockingly threw away a 4th-rounder" is pretty comical. There's nothing "shocking" about missing on a 4th-round pick, it's the norm.

In fact: I invite anybody to go back to the 2009 draft with perfect 20-20 hindsight and pick any other center prospect you like in place of Ohrnberger. Heck, pick two! What you'll find is that of the 18 o-lineman selected starting at pick #123, 16 ended up getting cut by the team that drafted them.

 

[captain stone]

I was never a fan of the Ohrnberger pick. But in all fairness, Rich Gosselin had Ohrnberger at #80 on his final 100 list, so UDFA is a stretch. Ohrnberger was a surprise on that list, to be sure - but not as big a surprise as Sebastian Vollmer at 76.

You win some, you lose some. The Pats' cut their losses from Ohrnberger and moved on.

I too remember that Gosselin ranking, and thinking that his list is more of a mock draft than an actual compilation of player abilities for the pros. I betcha that he somehow knew that Bill was considering him anytime after the 3rd round.

 

[mayoclinic]

I invite anybody to go back to the 2009 draft with perfect 20-20 hindsight and pick any other center prospect you like in place of Ohrnberger. Heck, pick two! What you'll find is that of the 18 o-lineman selected starting at pick #123, 16 ended up getting cut by the team that drafted them.

Box was big on TJ Lang in 2009, but he went to the Packers at #109. In retrospect, he would have been a nice pick instead of Tyrone McKenzie at #99. But that's entirely hindsight. And Lang was also limited to the guard position.

My view on all of these late round linemen is that you roll the dice repeatedly and if you are both lucky AND good you hit on one or two. Green Bay got Josh Sitton at #135 in 2008, and New Orleans got Carl Nicks at #164. The guy who I liked that year was Oregon St. OG Roy Schuening, who was taken right in between Sitton and Nicks at #157. I was pissed when the Pats traded up for Matt Slater and passed on Schuening. And Schuening never did squat in the NFL. It's a crapshoot. You take your shots and when you miss, you move on, as the Pats did with Ohrnberger. I think that the Pats took a nice shot with Marcus Cannon last year, and I think they got lucky in picking up Nick McDonald as well. If those 2 guys pan out, the Pats will have done as well as any team in recent years.

 

[mayoclinic]

I too remember that Gosselin ranking, and thinking that his list is more of a mock draft than an actual compilation of player abilities for the pros. I betcha that he somehow knew that Bill was considering him anytime after the 3rd round.

Gosselin's top 100 lists were not mocks. As Gosselin noted for his 2011 list (the last one he did):

The Top 100 is compiled based on conversations with NFL general managers, personnel directors, pro and college coaches and scouts. This is not a mock draft. Teams will skip around the board on draft day to make selections that fit their needs.

Meet Rick Gosselin's top 100 players for the 2011 NFL draft | Dallas-Fort Worth Sports News - News for Dallas, Texas - SportsDayDFW

It's kind of a componsite list of who Gosselin projects to be the 100 "best" players and who he thinks are most likely to be the top 100 picks based on conversations with a variety of pro and college personnel people. IDK if Gosselin heard anything specific to BB and Ohrnberger (or Vollmer for that matter), but he obviously heard enough from college and pro scouts and personnel people to think that both guys would be top 100 picks. He was right about Vollmer, and wrong about Ohnrberger.

 

[IllegalContact]

The perfect guy.....