NFL suspends Payton, Loomis & Williams; strips Saints of two draft picks

[pdangle]

Look up the definition. If you're at the poker table, you put money in the pot and whoever gets the chance to supply the big hit to put someone out gets the money. That's defined as gambling.

Only by the loosest of modern or social definitions. This is the least of the true moral issues brought up by this act. There's not really any need here to pile on with accusations or pet crusades against (not implying this the posters case here) this poor hapless dead horse of a social target when it's really of such negligible motivation here. Oh, I'm sure some will try, at least initially, to sensationalize the event. And when they do, I hope they hit em hard, with this and other such indescretions. I speak of course of the many league and/or team backed questionable charity drawings and/or appearance events, and obviously ANY March Madness(c) brackets! Burn em all for such heinous acts, oh the outrage! That, and that human scalping/bounty and coverup thing too I guess.

 

[Bella*chick]

All the Saints fans can talk about is how they got punished really harshly and Belichick got off easy. So frankly they can all go **** themselves.

Except Pherein. He is the gold standard of any fan and should be a Pats fan.

 

[MP-Logick]

Except Pherein. He is the gold standard of any fan and should be a Pats fan.

I like pherein. Haven't seen him in a while.

 

[Bella*chick]

I like pherein. Haven't seen him in a while.

I think he posted today but in a different thread.

 

[Deus Irae]

Look up the definition. If you're at the poker table, you put money in the pot and whoever gets the chance to supply the big hit to put someone out gets the money. That's defined as gambling.

I know the definition, thanks. It's not gambling. It's a bonus pool.

 

[BTTA]

The fines and penalties are not aimed so much at the Saints, but at the other teams--and the fans. They are a way to make sure there is no more bounty-hunting and to reassure the fans that injuries are accidental. The object is to play football and not hurt players. I think anything less might have been interpreted as a wink and a nod, and tacit permission to continue the practice.

About a year after cameragate, I was at a presentation by Kraft the Younger at Gillette to small private group where he said that the penalties against the Pats weren't about the Pats, but about making it clear to the rest of the league not to flaunt the rules. I suspect that this one is more of the same, and worse because the Saints so clearly flaunted this in the League's face.

 

[grux]

Really interesting question on what you do with the head coach.

You obviously have to go out and get another coach. Do you make him interim for an entire year?
Do you bring back the coach that cost the organization so much disruption due to his decisions and leadership?

I think it is very tough to ask the fanbase to support an interim coach, and then bring back the penalized coach a year later.
I think it is very tough to recruit a decent coach for that situation. You can't steal a Harbaugh from Stanford, someone successful who would be giving up a great job.
You can maybe get a coach emeritus guy - talk a long-retired coach into coming back. Vermeil? Wait, is that the Tuna's music? Maybe Dungy, to come in and clean things up?

So, then you have a new coach. There's an assistant head coach also suspended. Can the new coach bring in his own staff? Or is it way too late in the season? How does the new coach relate to the staff in place? What if the systems don't fit?

And then what about the other coaches. Do they end up getting canned, late in the offseason?

There are no easy answers here. I think a coach emeritus is the only way to make something work short-term. The easier thing is to flush the whole coaching staff, make a play for someone to turn the program around.

Very good questions that Benson is going to have to answer. Payton is a good coach but it may be time to clean house. It is going to be very difficult to put together a staff and tell them to hit the road in a year. Just when the Saints were turning into a good organization, then....:bricks:

 

[Bella*chick]

Some thoughts on Goodell's bounty discipline - Extra Points - Boston.com

There it is again.....people around the league shocked at first but quickly snickering about it because of the way the Saints act like such arrogant tools. Interesting. I've read plenty of comments by people who are going on about how classy Payton and co. are but that is clearly not shared by the people who actually get to deal with them.

 

[voluntarysaftey]

Really interesting question on what you do with the head coach.

You obviously have to go out and get another coach. Do you make him interim for an entire year?
Do you bring back the coach that cost the organization so much disruption due to his decisions and leadership?

I think it is very tough to ask the fanbase to support an interim coach, and then bring back the penalized coach a year later.
I think it is very tough to recruit a decent coach for that situation. You can't steal a Harbaugh from Stanford, someone successful who would be giving up a great job.
You can maybe get a coach emeritus guy - talk a long-retired coach into coming back. Vermeil? Wait, is that the Tuna's music? Maybe Dungy, to come in and clean things up?

So, then you have a new coach. There's an assistant head coach also suspended. Can the new coach bring in his own staff? Or is it way too late in the season? How does the new coach relate to the staff in place? What if the systems don't fit?

And then what about the other coaches. Do they end up getting canned, late in the offseason?

There are no easy answers here. I think a coach emeritus is the only way to make something work short-term. The easier thing is to flush the whole coaching staff, make a play for someone to turn the program around.

Agree -- tough situation.
If you decide to keep Payton, you'll get scrub asst coaches for the year, and likely a scrub head coach.

I don't see a Tuna or Dungy coming back for one year in a crappy situation -- there's zero upside to it other than money.

Maybe someone who has long retired with ties to the Saints org -- someone who would be willing to take the crappy no upside situation for the good of the org.
IE if this happenned to the Pats in 15 years, I could see Bill saying 'F it I'll coach for a year for the fun of it and cause the franchise I care about needs someone'.

I think they're better off just scrapping the entire coaching staff, and trying to start fresh -- they wouldn't be throwing away this season and if they can get a good coach in here, there might not be any downside.

 

[mgteich]

Fire Peyton for cause and Bring in Dungy.

Really interesting question on what you do with the head coach.

You obviously have to go out and get another coach. Do you make him interim for an entire year?
Do you bring back the coach that cost the organization so much disruption due to his decisions and leadership?

I think it is very tough to ask the fanbase to support an interim coach, and then bring back the penalized coach a year later.
I think it is very tough to recruit a decent coach for that situation. You can't steal a Harbaugh from Stanford, someone successful who would be giving up a great job.
You can maybe get a coach emeritus guy - talk a long-retired coach into coming back. Vermeil? Wait, is that the Tuna's music? Maybe Dungy, to come in and clean things up?

So, then you have a new coach. There's an assistant head coach also suspended. Can the new coach bring in his own staff? Or is it way too late in the season? How does the new coach relate to the staff in place? What if the systems don't fit?

And then what about the other coaches. Do they end up getting canned, late in the offseason?

There are no easy answers here. I think a coach emeritus is the only way to make something work short-term. The easier thing is to flush the whole coaching staff, make a play for someone to turn the program around.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

Prepare for the onslaught of comparisons to spygate, and somehow spygate will trump all of this for some idiotic reason..

Gives fodder to the mediots on ESPN, NFLN and all of the sports yakkers...

YEP! NAILED IT! bad enough haters always refer to spygate for everything Pats! NOW, even more of an excuse to keep it alive. Look for that Llama Lookin Gary Myers mention comparisons EVERY day in hios column. NY News & Post ( I Live In NY REFUSE To Read) and Callers On WFAN. At Least Francesa Slams On Jets.
Lets just go out and win it all, WINNING CURES EVERYTHING!

 

[jcdavey]

great job goodell

glad to see the saints get their asses kicked on this one

going to be even better to see the punishment the individual players get thrown at them

 

[ctpatsfan77]

great job goodell

glad to see the saints get their asses kicked on this one

going to be even better to see the punishment the individual players get thrown at them

Other than maybe Vilma, I'm not expecting tons of hammer-dropping on players.

 

[DaBruinz]

Other than maybe Vilma, I'm not expecting tons of hammer-dropping on players.

See. I disagree. I think that the league is going to come down very hard on any/all players who were on the Saints Defensive Roster from 2009-2012 who participated in the bounties. And it's not like the league doesn't have a list of every player involved.

I wouldn't be surprised to see 100+ games worth of suspensions handed out. Starting with Vilma.

And I wouldn't be surprised if Mr. Ornstein was arrested and charged with something.

 

[jcdavey]

Other than maybe Vilma, I'm not expecting tons of hammer-dropping on players.

i'm hoping for alot of player punishment and lawsuits

 

[juny]

sorry ddin't read all 16 pages when i got on here...

whoever was the source for this investigation, i hope they enter the witness protection program, he has made a lot of enemies.

very brutal penalties, much harsher than anyone expected. wow.

 

[thenepatsrule]

Warren Sapp says Jeremy Shockey was the Saints bounty Snitch

I have heard this on the radio and now some websites are reporting that Shockey was the snitch.

Shockey was released by the Saints before the 2011 season in favor of second-year tight end Jimmy Graham. Once known as the "wild child" of the NFL; Shockey was obviously not happy about his release and ended up signing with the Carolina Panthers.

Report: Former New Orleans Saints TE Jeremy Shockey 'snitched' about bounties - New Orleans New Orleans Saints | Examiner.com

Warren Sapp: Jeremy Shockey is Saints bounty 'snitch'

It seems Warren Sapp posted on his twitter that he knew who the snitch was and someone replied saying it was Shockey to which Sapp replied "Bingo"

 

[resdubwhite]

sorry ddin't read all 16 pages when i got on here...

whoever was the source for this investigation, i hope they enter the witness protection program, he has made a lot of enemies.

very brutal penalties, much harsher than anyone expected. wow.

Warren Sapp apparently named the "snitch" earlier.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...o-warren-sapp-calling-jeremy-shockey-a-snitch

 

[Urgent]

re: Warren Sapp says Jeremy Shockey was the Saints bounty Snitch

He was the snitch?
One could also say he was the one who confessed. Or the first one to be truthful.

Interesting to see how he is treated by fellow players.

 

[thenepatsrule]

re: Warren Sapp says Jeremy Shockey was the Saints bounty Snitch

He was the snitch?
One could also say he was the one who confessed. Or the first one to be truthful.

Interesting to see how he is treated by fellow players.

would be ironic if the saints put a bounty on him the next time they play him