Pays to Stay? Ochocinco and New England Talk Contract

[signbabybrady]

actually, drafting dowling instead of brooks reed was worse

I think this is one dumb statement.

Brooks reed would have been an OLB/Edgerusher for us this year where we got great production from Carter, Anderson, and others. Not sure exactly where and how Brooks would have fit into that but I think at best he would have given the same production.

Where as the secondary was one of our biggest problems most of the year. Dowling is a kid that out of TC had won a starting role unfortunately for him and for us he had a season ending injury.

If you are asking me would I rather have had in '11 Brooks who played the season or Dowling who did not I would obviously rather Brooks but what really is being asked is was it wise for BB to have drafted Dowling over Brooks and based on what the team needed in '11 I am not sure how you can argue the decision, Dowling was the right call and hopefully he can stay healthy moving forward and prove to be the better player.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

All this invective, yet BB has chosen to offer him another contract. Clearly you know more than he. I tip my cap to you.

Belichick isn't perfect...one of the best coaches in NFL history but FAR from perfect and he makes mistakes on the roster like all of the best coaches do.

Belichick may be close to Ocho and likes him enough to think he can contribute,at least for jokes and lightheartedness in the locker room ....I have no clue otherwise why he would be on the 53.

There are probably a ton of WR FAs that are available that can give the team 300 yards in 2012 if that is what he brings to the table.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Mo, could you pull up the comments by that you mentioned in your first post by Bedard, because I never saw it.

I don't get the hate. The because there was no off season, and a decade of playing in a completely different system, OCHO didn't "get" the Pats complex offense for most of the season. That was clear to everyone. Then when he got on the field he was always the 4th or 5th option. There are numerous reports that by the end of the season, he HAD "gotten" the offense, but by then he was still just Brady's 4th or 5th option. No one is saying that his season here wasn't disappointing.

Still what is the harm in getting him to lower his cap rate and compete with Branch for the #2 WR position (assuming Welker is back). Brady may love Branch, but the fact of the matter is that he can completely disappear when faced with the physical press coverage that the Pats are seeing a lot of these days. Let him compete with Ocho for the position through at least the OTA's. By then the Pats would have a good indication where each player is as far as their physical skills and if Ocho "gets" the offense. Then you can make a decision.

The fact BB is willing to offer him a contact of any kind should be a good indication that at least BB doesn't think he's totally lost his physical skills. Lets not forget that the guy many want to just unceremoniously dump, has had SEVEN seasons catching over 1,000 yds. That's 7 times more than Dieon Branch

No one is saying to guarantee him a roster spot, but it would just be poor roster management to just dump him without letting him compete for a job,

From Bedard's column in the Globe yesterday:

Receiver There won’t be a market for Branch. He knows that, and the team knows that. So expect him back on the cheap, and a possible release depending on how free agency, the draft, and Welker progress. The more people I talk to about Ochocinco, the more convinced I am that it’s never going to work for him in this offense. It just seems like he’ll never get it. But depending on the other moves, he could be back under a restructured contract, then subject to a release. The team and players loved having him around. He was a terrific teammate, just not even close to being effective.

Now how about you link some of those numerous reports he had gotten the offense by the end of the season. If you can find any...

 

[Jackson 2]

I could live with having him around again, with one huge "if" - namely, if I didn't have to read about and listen to both fans and media stating every, single week that "this could be Ocho's break-out week." I don't think I can stand another year of that sh!t. To cite Samuel Beckett, waiting for Ocho to break out is like "Waiting for Godot."

 

[PatsFan2]

Mo, could you pull up the comments by that you mentioned in your first post by Bedard, because I never saw it.

I don't get the hate. The because there was no off season, and a decade of playing in a completely different system, OCHO didn't "get" the Pats complex offense for most of the season. That was clear to everyone. Then when he got on the field he was always the 4th or 5th option. There are numerous reports that by the end of the season, he HAD "gotten" the offense, but by then he was still just Brady's 4th or 5th option. No one is saying that his season here wasn't disappointing.

Still what is the harm in getting him to lower his cap rate and compete with Branch for the #2 WR position (assuming Welker is back). Brady may love Branch, but the fact of the matter is that he can completely disappear when faced with the physical press coverage that the Pats are seeing a lot of these days. Let him compete with Ocho for the position through at least the OTA's. By then the Pats would have a good indication where each player is as far as their physical skills and if Ocho "gets" the offense. Then you can make a decision.

The fact BB is willing to offer him a contact of any kind should be a good indication that at least BB doesn't think he's totally lost his physical skills. Lets not forget that the guy many want to just unceremoniously dump, has had SEVEN seasons catching over 1,000 yds. That's 7 times more than Dieon Branch

No one is saying to guarantee him a roster spot, but it would just be poor roster management to just dump him without letting him compete for a job,

ken...as it even occur to you that Ocho might just be a one trick pony? Yes a guy who can only run one route. In his younger days similar to Moss he could more that get by on that alone...but when they get a little older lets say on the wrong side of 30...that approach doesn't work anymore because every CB and their grandmother can run as fast or even faster. An older WR who fits the Patriots mold is named Reggie Wayne...he can and has a large repertoire of moves like or better than Welker. Ocho Stinko is DONE stick a fork in him.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I'd rather see Hines Ward (who I hate with a passion) on this team than a wasted roster spot on this twitterholic Hollywood POS.....and that is saying something.

Belichick is on crack if he keeps him on his roster.

Hating a guy this much simply for failing to perform to expectations... that really can't be healthy. Seriously, there's something deeply wrong with people like you.

 

[MSU]

Hating a guy this much simply for failing to perform to expectations... that really can't be healthy. Seriously, there's something deeply wrong with people like you.

And we can also say there is something wrong with people like you, who sit around in some grand state of delusional and refuse to recognize anything wrong with this team.

 

[patfanken]

ken...as it even occur to you that Ocho might just be a one trick pony? Yes a guy who can only run one route. In his younger days similar to Moss he could more that get by on that alone...but when they get a little older lets say on the wrong side of 30...that approach doesn't work anymore because every CB and their grandmother can run as fast or even faster. An older WR who fits the Patriots mold is named Reggie Wayne...he can and has a large repertoire of moves like or better than Welker. Ocho Stinko is DONE stick a fork in him.

Right he's accumulated over 11.000 passing yds because he can only run one route. The more I here ridiculous analysis like yours, the more I feel more comfortable siding with BB's analysis. I feel fairly comfortable that he'd release a WR who is near the end, who couldn't get the offense, and could only run one route. BUT HE DIDN'T. But I guess you know better.

 

[JackBauer]

And we can also say there is something wrong with people like you, who sit around in some grand state of delusional and refuse to recognize anything wrong with this team.

Worst. Post. Ever.

 

[MSU]

Worst. Post. Ever.

Damn, it's like clockwork. You have to be one of the creepiest guys ever.

 

[JackBauer]

Damn, it's like clockwork. You have to be one of the creepiest guys ever.

One guy's creeping is another guy's mocking of the crappiest poster ever.

 

[patfanken]

From Bedard's column in the Globe yesterday:



Now how about you link some of those numerous reports he had gotten the offense by the end of the season. If you can find any...

Thanks for finding that Mo. It seems to me that Bedard's assessment of Ocho being able to "get" the offense is more HIS opinion that a direct quote from someone in the know.

I was surprised as anyone that the Pats thought enough about Ocho to give him a chance to come back and compete for a spot on the roster. IF Bedard is right, why not just release him and add the cap money. Though asking for him to reduce his contract is not exactly a ringing endorsement , but it does show the Pats thinks it worth it to have him back show he can do it...within this offense.

Again, my post is more a reaction to the venom and invective in this thread, not an assessment of Ocho's value to the team. There is everything to gain, and NOTHING to lose by having him back. In fact I think it would be a very interesting competition to have him compete with Branch for a roster spot. We all know BB LOVES to create this type of competition. This is not a matter of WHY, its more an matter of WHY NOT.

As finding direct quotes that were saying Ocho "gets it". You know Brady, BB, and his team mates came out on several occasions on this topic. You also know know that I suck at finding stuff like this. But I do know for certain, if you were on the same side of the issue as I am, YOU could find a dozen or more in a few minutes. Play fair, Mo.

 

[DW Toys]

I don't understand why people are whining about this. It certainly doesn't hurt to keep him around and bring him to camp. And even if he does stick on the roster, I doubt he's liable to be any worse than the median #4 or #5 receiver in the league.

I have to agree with you sir. Good post.
I don't think last year was all his fault. Show me where BB or TB said he does not know the play book for all the haters. He was open many times by years end. Yes he was the third or fourth option. Might have been out best blocking WR.

Gronk and Hernandez were preferred with Welker by TB and who can blame him. TB has a tendency to look at favorites. We all saw that with Moss, open or not. I don't know where "He throws to who is open" came from.....not really. He had at least two other open options in the SB on the INT besides a gimpy Gronk. Yet he lazered in on him. Can't fault a guy like TB though for all the positives.

Also heard for Zolack if he is cut his dead money CAP is higher than if they can get him to restructure. This may be financial to some degree.
DW Toys

 

[Patspsycho]

Thanks for finding that Mo. It seems to me that Bedard's assessment of Ocho being able to "get" the offense is more HIS opinion that a direct quote from someone in the know.

I was surprised as anyone that the Pats thought enough about Ocho to give him a chance to come back and compete for a spot on the roster. IF Bedard is right, why not just release him and add the cap money. Though asking for him to reduce his contract is not exactly a ringing endorsement , but it does show the Pats thinks it worth it to have him back show he can do it...within this offense.

Again, my post is more a reaction to the venom and invective in this thread, not an assessment of Ocho's value to the team. There is everything to gain, and NOTHING to lose by having him back. In fact I think it would be a very interesting competition to have him compete with Branch for a roster spot. We all know BB LOVES to create this type of competition. This is not a matter of WHY, its more an matter of WHY NOT.

As finding direct quotes that were saying Ocho "gets it". You know Brady, BB, and his team mates came out on several occasions on this topic. You also know know that I suck at finding stuff like this. But I do know for certain, if you were on the same side of the issue as I am, YOU could find a dozen or more in a few minutes. Play fair, Mo.

That's correct- there is nothing to gain, cap-wise if Ocho were cut at this point. I believe the cut-off point for him will be at the end of training camp, after he's had the benefit of a full off-season, and every opportunity to show that he is capable of "getting it."

 

[Deus Irae]

Thanks for finding that Mo. It seems to me that Bedard's assessment of Ocho being able to "get" the offense is more HIS opinion that a direct quote from someone in the know.

I was surprised as anyone that the Pats thought enough about Ocho to give him a chance to come back and compete for a spot on the roster. IF Bedard is right, why not just release him and add the cap money. Though asking for him to reduce his contract is not exactly a ringing endorsement , but it does show the Pats thinks it worth it to have him back show he can do it...within this offense.

Again, my post is more a reaction to the venom and invective in this thread, not an assessment of Ocho's value to the team. There is everything to gain, and NOTHING to lose by having him back. In fact I think it would be a very interesting competition to have him compete with Branch for a roster spot. We all know BB LOVES to create this type of competition. This is not a matter of WHY, its more an matter of WHY NOT.

As finding direct quotes that were saying Ocho "gets it". You know Brady, BB, and his team mates came out on several occasions on this topic. You also know know that I suck at finding stuff like this. But I do know for certain, if you were on the same side of the issue as I am, YOU could find a dozen or more in a few minutes. Play fair, Mo.

Things lost by keeping Johnson around:

Money
Cap space
Roster spot

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Hating a guy this much simply for failing to perform to expectations... that really can't be healthy. Seriously, there's something deeply wrong with people like you.

Nothing wrong with me

I just expect a player ON THE ROSTER to perform more adequately than 300 yards when getting $6 Million dollars on a 2 year deal,Players with Vet minimum have done better.

He practically stole $3 Million for virtually nothing on the field and almost received a ring that he certainly would not have deserved ......and you wonder why fans like me wish he went back to Dancing With The Stars,back on his little talk show with T.O. and spending full time elsewhere.

If 19 weeks of being with a team,being a former all pro veteran and you still can't figure out what the hell the offense is when a WTF JAG like Underwood figured it out enough to get more playing time,I don't know what you can say positive about his worthiness going into 2012.

If Chad was a NY Jet, guys like you would be mocking them for making a boneheaded decision to sign him and if you deny it,I call you out as a liar.

Hines Ward and Reggie Wayne could not be any worse on this team if one or both join the team in camp this summer.

 

[PatsFan2]

Right he's accumulated over 11.000 passing yds because he can only run one route. The more I here ridiculous analysis like yours, the more I feel more comfortable siding with BB's analysis. I feel fairly comfortable that he'd release a WR who is near the end, who couldn't get the offense, and could only run one route. BUT HE DIDN'T. But I guess you know better.

Well ken just like you many times BB have been wrong before and i will stick by what i said about Ocho-Stinko at this point in his career he's just a one trick pony. He won't be the First FA WR who couldn't figure out the Patriot Offense and sadly he wont be the last. I expect atleast two WR's in here one via the Draft and one via FA and i will bet you that one if not both will play Ocho-Stinko off the roster. Ofcourse i not going to say i didn't see it coming. Take those rose colored glasses off ken.

 

[PatsFan2]

Nothing wrong with me

I just expect a player ON THE ROSTER to perform more adequately than 300 yards when getting $6 Million dollars on a 2 year deal,Players with Vet minimum have done better.

He practically stole $3 Million for virtually nothing on the field and almost received a ring that he certainly would not have deserved ......and you wonder why fans like me wish he went back to Dancing With The Stars,back on his little talk show with T.O. and spending full time elsewhere.

If 19 weeks of being with a team,being a former all pro veteran and you still can't figure out what the hell the offense is when a WTF JAG like Underwood figured it out enough to get more playing time,I don't know what you can say positive about his worthiness going into 2012.

If Chad was a NY Jet, guys like you would be mocking them for making a boneheaded decision to sign him and if you deny it,I call you out as a liar.

Hines Ward and Reggie Wayne could not be any worse on this team if one or both join the team in camp this summer.

Geat post some of us act like Ocho was only here for thee weeks:snob:...post on brother.

 

[Fencer]

You guys are missing the point. With this news getting out, there are only two possibilities:

1. Chad refuses to renegotiate and is cut. This is a better outcome for HIS SAKE than him being cut outright, because he saves (some) face, yet it doesn't hurt the team.

He deserves that face-saving for having had a good attitude.

2. Chad agrees to a contract with no or few guarantees, and stays. Then the team has lost little, and in BB I trust about taking the (small) gamble that he finally gets it.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Geat post some of us act like Ocho was only here for thee weeks:snob:...post on brother.

Our offense is maybe a little more complex than other teams but some in here make it sound like its rocket science that takes 2 seasons for a 10 year vet to learn.

Didn't Randy Moss and Wes Welker come here and immediately make a big impact?.....was our offense so much easier in 2007 to learn than it is now or is this B.S. excuses for a has been washed up receiver that is soooooo lovable and funny???