Pays to Stay? Ochocinco and New England Talk Contract

[supafly]

I will gladly donate $5 for the "Ochostinko 2012 Learn the Playbook Fund" if that helps him recoup his paycut he is about to get.

How to Memorize Your Football Playbook - YouTube

Sign me up too Don. For $5 bucks, I would gladly sacrifice tomorrow's cup of coffee at the local Starbucks.

I don't think it's coincidental that we've seen some of these other kinds of WR's who may offer something to other teams not be able to pick up the offense here.

You've got to be able to read, change, react, re-route, and most of all do it within a split second. You've got to be able to earn Brady's trust, which is not exactly easy. Some have proven the ability to properly do that, while others have failed miserably.

Just one more reason to make sure that Welker stays here for the next few yrs in my opinion.

 

[RayClay]

I bet Ocho would love to end his career playing for Belichick.

Probably has.

 

[supafly]

That's not what Reiss said:



There's still a cap charge.

There's a cap charge no matter what. You really don't get it. If they release him right now like you're claiming they should do bc he "takes up cap space", guess what? He'll give the Pats the same cap hit on their cap space.


Hilarious.

This is what I got out of it:

-- Ochocinco is due to cost the NEP a cap hit of 4.5 million this year, which is just ridiculous for a guy with his lack of production. That money is coming from a base salary of 3 million dollars, and 1.5 million in signing bonus money which is due also. (He's also due 1.5 million in signing bonus next yr too)

-- By cutting Ochocinco, they can save themselves 3 million against the cap this yr. They can narrow his 4.5 million total down to 1.5 million total. This would be done by erasing his 3 million dollar base salary. This is assuming that they would spread the other 1.5 million signing bonus due next yr under next yr's cap.

--They'd still be on the hook no matter what for 1.5 million this yr, and 1.5 million next yr against the cap. The good news is that 1.5 million could be reduced from the original 4.5 million dollar number that would count against the cap this yr.

--They can offer to have him restructure (which they did). This should lower his cap number from 4.5 million down to a more managable 2.5--2.75 million or so (approximately). This would save approximately 1.75 million to 2 million more off of this yr's cap.

--The final decision now becomes whether or not they want to keep him at a cap hit of about 2.5--2.75 million, or let him go at a cap hit of 1.5 million. The difference is now only 1 million--1.25 million should they decide to keep him.


I'm not 100% certain that I fully agree with Reiss' take on this matter, as I was under the impression that all bonuses/dead money was due on the termination of the pact. He claims that it can be spread out over this yr and next yr...but I am questioning that comment.

If the dead money can't be spread out over this yr and next yr, and Reiss is wrong, then that would make it even more difficult to try and cut Ochocinco. We may have to end up getting used to him being around for another yr.

Maybe someone else has an opinion on the dead money being spread?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The dead money can be spread over the remaining 2 seasons whether we cut him now or in June. The new CBA retained the exemption that allows teams to designate 2 cuts prior to June 1 to be treated as if the player was cut after June 1. Therefore if Chad is cut now the team saves $3M against the cap in 2012 and 2013 while taking a dead cap hit of $1.5M in each of those years. If they restructure his deal he will still count against the cap for the total of his new salary plus $1.5M in dead cap amortization in 2012 and 2013.

Reiss is assuming the are asking him to take a straight pay cut, actually cutting his 2012 salary in half. They may be asking for more. They could also be offering to convert some of his salary into signing bonus which is payable immediately in exchange for the reduction. That would seem to be foolish since it would add to dead cap, but it is often what is done in a simple restructure. The NFLPA frowns on players reducing the value of their contract in exchange for nothing (other than a chance to remain employed by that team). They may offer him incentives for 2013 that would equal or exceed the amount of salary they are asking him to forego, but of course those would be NLTBE (in more ways than one in Chad's case).

If they are asking him to simply restructure down to minimum salary based on his lack of production relative to the sunk cost ($6M) it is basically the take a cut or hit the road restructure - the kind players who think they can still play usually bristle at and often refuse preferring to take their chances on a better deal in FA. Vrabel reportedly bristled when asked to restructure heading into his final year here. He supposedly actually wanted a restructure extension. Bill, possibly believing he would not get what he hoped for on the FA market packaged him in the Cassel deal to KC where they were willing to overpay for his experience in the system. Rodney was asked to restructure down to minimum coming back from injury, which had to be a bitter pill for him considering he'd been underpaid based on his performance to that time. His restructure did however allow him to earn back the money he gave back, and he did. Sometimes we just cut 'em without asking them to take a restructure. As we did with Warren and Sanders. Perhaps because we had other issues with them or knew they would not agree and would in fact grouse.

In Chad's case they apparently believe he won't, and if he does then I guess he will be gone sooner than later. I cannot imagine they allow him to remain performing as he did last season. Roster spots are valuable. So are snaps throughout OTA's and TC and pre season. The tough part is he apparently practiced well and simply could not transfer that onto the playing field under game conditions. If they wait to see if he can this season his deal will be guaranteed in week 1... So if he can't, then what...

 

[Triumph]

False. If they cut him now rather than wait til June ( I think?) the cap hit is a little over 3 million. If they wait til summer, they can prorate the cap hit over 2012 and 2013.

It makes no sense not to look into restructuring his deal to let him compete in camp. THEN cut him if need be. But it's hurting NO ONE to keep around right now.

It's hilarious and pathetic that some of you fail to recognize this.

What good does it do the New England Patriots to cut him right now? I bet you can't list any legitimate reasons. No one is saying he needs to be guaranteed a spot on the opening day roster, but with the cap situation, it makes sense to restructure his deal and let him compete with a year under his belt.

This whole thread is hilarious with the ignorance dripping from it.

The ONLY reason why Ocho is still on the Pats roster is because of money. Thats it!

Not because of his 1 TD or anything hes done on the field for the Pats. No NE WR beyond Welker and Branch caught more than 15 passes for NE in 2011. Pathetic.

What Dues said was correct, the Pats would save money by not paying him his salary as it currently stands today in 2012 if his signing bonus hit is spread out over 2012 and 2013. And, quite frankly it s no big deal if Ocho hits the 2012 cap at 3 mil anyway. The Pats have absorbed hits like that in the past. So what?

The whole thing has been a bad business deal that everyone knows how its going to end. The money paid out, the draft picks given away and the fact that this guys future is still being discussed today. The plus side of dumping Cinco today is admitting error and putting this whole mess behind the Pats. I have little confindence that Cinco will be on the Pats roster in 2012. I believe that BB is going to nab a vet WR or maybe two and that Branch and Welker will both be back.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

It's really uncharacteristic of Bill to not move on from his mistakes. Although I must admit at times it has taken him longer than might have been anticipated. So maybe it really isn't and we just though that was the upside to his mistakes that everyone makes, he doesn't stubbornly cling to them like some HC's and GM's will. He invested personally in Maroney for some reason, and it didn't pan out. Hung on to Randy several months longer than he might have. Maybe he thinks if he gets Ocho to restructure he can yet flip him and get one of those picks back...

 

[RobertWeathers]

It's really uncharacteristic of Bill to not move on from his mistakes. Although I must admit at times it has taken him longer than might have been anticipated. So maybe it really isn't and we just though that was the upside to his mistakes that everyone makes, he doesn't stubbornly cling to them like some HC's and GM's will. He invested personally in Maroney for some reason, and it didn't pan out. Hung on to Randy several months longer than he might have. Maybe he thinks if he gets Ocho to restructure he can yet flip him and get one of those picks back...

I think Bill is taking a phased approach with Johnson.

Get him to take a pay cut now that will help the team with the cap or make his contract more palatable in trade. If he agrees, then he is still on the team.

If the team drafts/signs a WR and they are perceived to be in the rotation in 2012, Chad will either be traded or cut.

If they do not improve the WR position in 2012, then Chad will still be with the team in the same role he was last year. Hopefully his production will improve.

I'm confident that the situation will play out in the Patriots favor- both from a financial and/or production standpoint.

 

[IllegalContact]

It's really uncharacteristic of Bill to not move on from his mistakes. Although I must admit at times it has taken him longer than might have been anticipated. So maybe it really isn't and we just though that was the upside to his mistakes that everyone makes, he doesn't stubbornly cling to them like some HC's and GM's will. He invested personally in Maroney for some reason, and it didn't pan out. Hung on to Randy several months longer than he might have. Maybe he thinks if he gets Ocho to restructure he can yet flip him and get one of those picks back...

maybe he doesn't think that at all. maybe you're just wrong

 

[BradyFTW!]

And we can also say there is something wrong with people like you, who sit around in some grand state of delusional and refuse to recognize anything wrong with this team.

Hahaha... you must be new here.

Oddly enough, I get pretty regularly accused of being both a homer and a chicken little. Probably means that I'm neither.

 

[Sivy]

I for one am glad Ocho is staying..good player, good teammate. Just needs a real offseason.

With the talk of Lloyd staying with St. Lous, some folks around here are going to be real sad with Welker, Ocho, Moss and Branch as the WR.

 

[supafly]

The dead money can be spread over the remaining 2 seasons whether we cut him now or in June. The new CBA retained the exemption that allows teams to designate 2 cuts prior to June 1 to be treated as if the player was cut after June 1. Therefore if Chad is cut now the team saves $3M against the cap in 2012 and 2013 while taking a dead cap hit of $1.5M in each of those years. If they restructure his deal he will still count against the cap for the total of his new salary plus $1.5M in dead cap amortization in 2012 and 2013.

Reiss is assuming the are asking him to take a straight pay cut, actually cutting his 2012 salary in half. They may be asking for more. They could also be offering to convert some of his salary into signing bonus which is payable immediately in exchange for the reduction. That would seem to be foolish since it would add to dead cap, but it is often what is done in a simple restructure. The NFLPA frowns on players reducing the value of their contract in exchange for nothing (other than a chance to remain employed by that team). They may offer him incentives for 2013 that would equal or exceed the amount of salary they are asking him to forego, but of course those would be NLTBE (in more ways than one in Chad's case).

If they are asking him to simply restructure down to minimum salary based on his lack of production relative to the sunk cost ($6M) it is basically the take a cut or hit the road restructure - the kind players who think they can still play usually bristle at and often refuse preferring to take their chances on a better deal in FA. Vrabel reportedly bristled when asked to restructure heading into his final year here. He supposedly actually wanted a restructure extension. Bill, possibly believing he would not get what he hoped for on the FA market packaged him in the Cassel deal to KC where they were willing to overpay for his experience in the system. Rodney was asked to restructure down to minimum coming back from injury, which had to be a bitter pill for him considering he'd been underpaid based on his performance to that time. His restructure did however allow him to earn back the money he gave back, and he did. Sometimes we just cut 'em without asking them to take a restructure. As we did with Warren and Sanders. Perhaps because we had other issues with them or knew they would not agree and would in fact grouse.

In Chad's case they apparently believe he won't, and if he does then I guess he will be gone sooner than later. I cannot imagine they allow him to remain performing as he did last season. Roster spots are valuable. So are snaps throughout OTA's and TC and pre season. The tough part is he apparently practiced well and simply could not transfer that onto the playing field under game conditions. If they wait to see if he can this season his deal will be guaranteed in week 1... So if he can't, then what...

Thanks, Mo. Always appreciate the thoughts from someone who knows as much as you often do.

 

[Triumph]

I for one am glad Ocho is staying..good player, good teammate. Just needs a real offseason.

With the talk of Lloyd staying with St. Lous, some folks around here are going to be real sad with Welker, Ocho, Moss and Branch as the WR.

NFL Network's Jason LaCanfora reiterated that free agent WR Brandon Lloyd will make it to the open market market.


The Rams have reportedly begun discussions with Lloyd, but he will "get a chance to test free agent waters," LaCanfora said on Thursday's Total Access. LaCanfora calls the Patriots a "likely landing spot," citing Lloyd's relationship with coordinator Josh McDaniels. Lloyd is not a candidate for the franchise tag.
Related: Patriots

Mar 1 - 7:44 PM