Tentative Agreement for 2011 Salary Cap

[Shelterdog]

2.) The 90% cap floor rule could kill them. That rule says that teams will have to spend 90% of cap in real dollars. The problem is that they have already given big bonuses to Ferguson, Mangold, and Revis. They already have $20 million in dead accrued bonus money in 2012. That could easily balloon up to $30 million. If the cap doesn't grow like it has, they might have a problem getting to the 90% cash line with $30 million of dead money vs. say a $124 million cap.

Revis, Mangold and Brick all get big bonuses this year (18, 9.7, and 3.7). (I seriously think the Jets had cash flow problems in 2010 because of how many bonuses they pushed to 2011 and because of the large number of cost saving measures they took in a capless year, but I digress).

 

[BlueThunder]

Revis, Mangold and Brick all get big bonuses this year (18, 9.7, and 3.7). (I seriously think the Jets had cash flow problems in 2010 because of how many bonuses they pushed to 2011 and because of the large number of cost saving measures they took in a capless year, but I digress).

I hope it cripples them cap wise and Tanngenius finally gets caught in cap hell :rocker:

 

[jmt57]

From ESPN

Edit: According to Miguel's page we're a tad under 114 million with 76 signed players. Just thought I'd throw that in for discussion's sake.

Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds as if that $114 million number is (as noted) for 76 players; if I recall correctly there is a "rule of 51", which means for cap purposes only the cap figures of the top 51 players are calculated.

If that $114 million figure represents the total for 76 players, then the Pats are probably about $15 to $20 million under the cap; if not, then they'll have almost no choice but to restructure a few deals and/or cut a couple veterans.


Edit: if my math is correct, the cap figure of the top 51 salaries on Miguel's page comes to $109,888,940. There is also $1,050,031 in dead cap money; if the new CBA calls for that to be included in the 2011 cap then that puts the Pats current cap figure at $110,938,971 if we are to assume the NFL continues to use the Rule of 51 for their cap numbers. There is also the consideration of whether or not workout bonuses get paid and/or are included; Miguel's numbers do include workout bonuses that could have been earned if there had been no lockout.

 

[Shelterdog]

I hope it cripples them cap wise and Tanngenius finally gets caught in cap hell :rocker:

They were in cap hell last year but survived because they had very good health and they also did an incredible job getting high production from guys with fairly low salaries (Holmes, Edwards, Pool, Cromartie, Taylor, Pryce, LDT, Slauson). They gave up some picks to do it and they're paying the piper now.

Same deal this year; I'm sure they'll field a team but they're going to end up losing a ton of guys and they're going to need high production from players who are either untested or cheap and old.

 

[BradyManny]

Edit: if my math is correct, the cap figure of the top 51 salaries on Miguel's page comes to $109,888,940. There is also $1,050,031 in dead cap money; if the new CBA calls for that to be included in the 2011 cap then that puts the Pats current cap figure at $110,938,971 if we are to assume the NFL continues to use the Rule of 51 for their cap numbers. There is also the consideration of whether or not workout bonuses get paid and/or are included; Miguel's numbers do include workout bonuses that could have been earned if there had been no lockout.

Good call on the top 51.

The Pats roster is already in a very good spot. We have to consider they'll need room for the rookies. But they also have Mankins on the books for 10 - could go down a little if they sign him to a longer deal. They have Kaczur, TBC, Sanders & Crumpler making about $10 million, and anyone of them could be restructured/cut/etc., in some way. Or not. We have that luxury.

Bottom line - Pats are in as good a situation as anybody. The team was elite last year, lost no one of consequence save for Light (who maybe they resign anyway, though doubtful), has youth which already made huge strides last year, and added some potentially impact players in the draft.

 

[DaBruinz]

They were in cap hell last year but survived because they had very good health and they also did an incredible job getting high production from guys with fairly low salaries (Holmes, Edwards, Pool, Cromartie, Taylor, Pryce, LDT, Slauson). They gave up some picks to do it and they're paying the piper now.

Same deal this year; I'm sure they'll field a team but they're going to end up losing a ton of guys and they're going to need high production from players who are either untested or cheap and old.

The Jets were not in "Cap Hell" last year. The issue with THIS YEAR is that they have numerous players who will be UFAs who they expected to be able to retain due to having less than 6 accrued years. Players that were KEY to their team. Players like Holmes and Edwards.

There is a NYJetscap.com that has them with 57 players and a "Top 51" number of $101 million. But it doesn't include any dead money from having cut Taylor, Jenkins, Woody. And it doesn't include any of the bonus money that is supposed to be paid out this year or the $10 million cap figure for David Harris.

Doing more digging, I found that the Jets have $138 million in salary cap commitments. Again, the dead money will be a big question. They'll free up some money signing Harris to a long term deal.

With their being a Cash Floor and a Total Cap, it's going to make things a lot more interesting.

 

[Shelterdog]

The Jets were not in "Cap Hell" last year. The issue with THIS YEAR is that they have numerous players who will be UFAs who they expected to be able to retain due to having less than 6 accrued years. Players that were KEY to their team. Players like Holmes and Edwards.

Ok they were in "cap purgatory" or something last year; this year their position is clearly worse.

Not sure where you got that 138 number from. But yes, Tanny will have to dance for them to put together a 2011 team that's as talented as their 2010 team.

 

[DaBruinz]

Ok they were in "cap purgatory" or something last year; this year their position is clearly worse.

Not sure where you got that 138 number from. But yes, Tanny will have to dance for them to put together a 2011 team that's as talented as their 2010 team.

I got it from an interview that the guy who runs NYJetscap.com did in February of 2011.

Inside the Numbers: New York Jets Salary Cap and Player Contract Questions Answered

I hope you didn't get confused and think I said that that was going to be the Jets final cap number because that isn't what I said at all.

Just found another article that says they only have 111 million in cap commitments including the 10 million to David Harris..

http://www.jetnation.com/2011/07/15/update-on-jets-salary-cap-information/

As I said previously, how they handle dead money is going to be a big issue.

What I am also curious about is what happened to the other 18 million in commitments from February til now.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The guy who maintains the JETSCAP page has been in a state of denial for a while now making assumptions based on rumored insight from an unnamed source who convinced him that there would be no dead cap among other things... Lucky for us Miguel doesn't make attempts to homer rationalize his cap page. He makes only reasonable assumptions and only relies on those in the absence of overwhelming evidence or clear facts to the contrary.

This article by Andrew Brandt is probably as good a summary of where we appear to be on the CBA as of this AM and what remains to be hammered out.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Sense-of-urgency-has-arrived.html

NFL.com news: Players, owners reach agreement on economics of deal

Breer also has a piece up where he states that the initial revenue split appears to be between 47-48% players and 52-53% owners. He also states the cash cap will be 90% on a team basis but the overall league cash cap will be 99%. There will be no cash over cap limit which the have nots likely wanted (since they see that as a competitive disadvantage), but if the real benchmark is league spending and the big spenders drive that figure up by cash spending in excess of 100% the cap it may mitigate the need for the low revenue teams to hit that 90% mark. We'll need to see the details before we know how the cash floors and cap ceilings really work. I wonder if the reported $3M pseudo mid level exemption for 2010 only ends up replacing veteran minimum cap exemptions.

The good news is even De is now talking about votes...so there must have really been the reported progress.

Edited to add referenced Brandt link as well as Breer one...

 

[DaBruinz]

The guy who maintains the JETSCAP page has been in a state of denial for a while now making assumptions based on rumored insight from an unnamed source who convinced him that there would be no dead cap among other things... Lucky for us Miguel doesn't make attempts to homer rationalize his cap page. He makes only reasonable assumptions and only relies on those in the absence of overwhelming evidence or clear facts to the contrary.

Mo - I agree that the guy at NYJetscap.com has been making assumptions about the dead money. It's why I said that a lot depends on what they do with it..

I wholeheartedly agree that Miguel rocks. The saying of "Often immitated, but never duplicated" comes to mind when it comes to Miguel's page and it's accuracy.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Found this over on Coltfreaks where they are discussing all the players they can resign under a $120M cap because they didn't grasp that this list doesn't include tagged players like Manning or any RFA or ERFA players because the author chose not to count them pending a new CBA. It's from a usually respected ESPN columnist.

His figure for us is also close to Miguel's when adjusted for Mankins and our legit RFA/ERFA's, so I think it was a pretty good list. Bad news for Indy, JETS, Pittsburgh, Giants, even GB...pending context of how many players they have signed and what else they have to account for signing beyond tagged players and remaining own FA and rookies...

•Arizona $83 million
•Atlanta $102.1 million
•Baltimore $101.3 million
•Buffalo $96.4 million
•Carolina $73 million
•Chicago $104.9 million
•Cincinnati $90.7 million
•Cleveland $99.2 million
•Dallas $136.6 million
•Denver $125 million
•Detroit $113.8 million
•Green Bay $129.8 million
•Houston $118.4 million
•Indianapolis $115.5 million
•Jacksonville $78.1 million
•Kansas City $74.7 million
•Miami $103.1 million
•Minnesota $108.4 million
•New England $102.3 million
•New Orleans $105.2 million
•New York Giants $126.3 million
•New York Jets $128.5 million
•Oakland $85.8 million
•Philadelphia $80.8 million
•Pittsburgh $116 million
•San Diego $85.8 million
•San Francisco $100.9 million
•Seattle $81.1 million
•St. Louis $102.4 million
•Tampa Bay $59.7 million
•Tennessee $107.4 million
•Washington $115.2 million



Looking at 2011 salary-cap figures - NFL Nation Blog - ESPN

 

[BradyManny]

Wow, is Indy really at 115 without Manning?? Did Irsay and Polian really have a bad estimation of what the cap would be?

I'm sure this isn't as accurate as Miguel's:

Colts Salary Cap - Colts Cap

It probably does not account for dead money. Much like the NYJ page, it seems to be homer-istic in its approach. It's about $20 million off from the ESPN article, as the article explicitly states it does not include franchised players. In this case, I imagine/hope the truth lies closer to ESPN's #s.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Wow, is Indy really at 115 without Manning?? Did Irsay and Polian really have a bad estimation of what the cap would be?

I'm sure this isn't as accurate as Miguel's:

Colts Salary Cap - Colts Cap

It probably does not account for dead money. Much like the NYJ page, it seems to be homer-istic in its approach. It's about $20 million off from the ESPN article, as the article explicitly states it does not include franchised players. In this case, I imagine/hope the truth lies closer to ESPN's #s.

The guy who does the Colts cap has been in denial as well. He still counts Manning's voided 2011 $15M salary despite the tag being placed, although I don't think he rationalizes why he did it. He's just not updated his page in over a year as an end around. The Colts also have a lot of FA starters to resign or replace like Addai for openers who aren't presently under their control as Manning likely will remain one way or the other...

 

[BradyManny]

The guy who does the Colts cap has been in denial as well. He still counts Manning's voided 2011 $15M salary despite the tag being placed, although I don't think he rationalizes why he did it. He's just not updated his page in over a year as an end around. The Colts also have a lot of FA starters to resign or replace like Addai for openers who aren't presently under their control as Manning likely will remain one way or the other...

I love it. If teams like the Jets and Colts are penalized by the new CBA and a smaller than anticipated cap...well, I'll be one happy camper. I think we all will.

Pats will reap the benefit of a little bit tighter financial constraints. Even if the cap ultimately goes up in years to come.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Someone over on Coltfreaks posted that someone he thinks is in the know claims that the Colts are $53M under the $120M cap...and they are all buying in without question... It really is comical. They are going to resign all their FA and demand Polian go get some others...

Over on Gangreen they are all happy campers because they believe dead cap must be going away not to mention $4M in off season training bonuses...After restructuring the Sanchise's deal and pushing 2/3rds of his 2011 salary into 2012 and 2013 via the Tannenbaum credit card and getting their tagged player signed long term while minimizing his first year cap hit, they believe they can get under $100M and resign everyone...

Last word I heard last evening the players are insisting those workout bonuses be paid in full as if earned. Owners will likely agree although they may require some sort of proof that players worked sufficiently out off site to meet their onsite requirements. Add $10M in dead money and $4M in workout bonus money to the figure they are working off of and like in the Colts case when you add in Manning's tag differential you come up with the figures on that ESPN cap committment list. They are both over the $120-123M cap out of the gate.

I think for some teams fans the lockout once it's over may end up representing a fond memory...

As for the statement LaCanfora made once yesterday and Breer parroted about the cap "feeling" more like $130M, I don't think that was anything more than league spin. Probably having to do with the anticipated effect of a cash cap floor potentially driving a number of FA signings you would otherwise not have seen coming out of this lockout...

 

[DaBruinz]

Tampa Bay is a team that is going to have to throw around a lot of goofy money just to get to the cash floor. I mean, they have like $51 million they HAVE to spend.

Teams like Philadelphia are going to have to spend a minimum of $28 million

I predict that, not only will all the previous predictions will be thrown for a loop, but that Vegas will be scrambling to re-do all the odds pretty quickly.. And putting money on the Pats will be a good thing

 

[DaBruinz]

Found this over on Coltfreaks where they are discussing all the players they can resign under a $120M cap because they didn't grasp that this list doesn't include tagged players like Manning or any RFA or ERFA players because the author chose not to count them pending a new CBA. It's from a usually respected ESPN columnist.

His figure for us is also close to Miguel's when adjusted for Mankins and our legit RFA/ERFA's, so I think it was a pretty good list. Bad news for Indy, JETS, Pittsburgh, Giants, even GB...pending context of how many players they have signed and what else they have to account for signing beyond tagged players and remaining own FA and rookies...

•Arizona $83 million
•Atlanta $102.1 million
•Baltimore $101.3 million
•Buffalo $96.4 million
•Carolina $73 million
•Chicago $104.9 million
•Cincinnati $90.7 million
•Cleveland $99.2 million
•Dallas $136.6 million
•Denver $125 million
•Detroit $113.8 million
•Green Bay $129.8 million
•Houston $118.4 million
•Indianapolis $115.5 million
•Jacksonville $78.1 million
•Kansas City $74.7 million
•Miami $103.1 million
•Minnesota $108.4 million
•New England $102.3 million
•New Orleans $105.2 million
•New York Giants $126.3 million
•New York Jets $128.5 million
•Oakland $85.8 million
•Philadelphia $80.8 million
•Pittsburgh $116 million
•San Diego $85.8 million
•San Francisco $100.9 million
•Seattle $81.1 million
•St. Louis $102.4 million
•Tampa Bay $59.7 million
•Tennessee $107.4 million
•Washington $115.2 million



Looking at 2011 salary-cap figures - NFL Nation Blog - ESPN

That was done on Feb 7. So there are two things I see.

1) No Franchise tags, RFAs or ERFAs are included (So, that would bump it up 10 million for the Jets and Pats based on Harris and Mankins).
2) No Cuts had been made. (So, the Jets cap number goes down significantly)

What that Feb 1 number also doesn't include is the major bonuses that are supposed to be paid to Revis, Ferguson and Mangold. I expect, however, that Ferguson and Mangold will be re-negotiating their contracts just after the 1 year time period is up.. The Revis bonus (supposedly 18 million) though is going to add a significant amount to the Jets cap.

So there is no real way to know where the Jets are right now. Above or below the cap number. They do have 57 players under contract.

Dead money is not as big of an issue for the Pats, but it definitely is for the Jets.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

That was done on Feb 7. So there are two things I see. 1) No Franchise tags, RFAs or ERFAs are included (So, that would bump it up 10 million for the Jets and Pats based on Harris and Mankins). 2) No Cuts had been made. (So, the Jets cap number goes down significantly) What that Feb 1 number also doesn't include is the major bonuses that are supposed to be paid to Revis, Ferguson and Mangold. I expect, however, that Ferguson and Mangold will be re-negotiating their contracts just after the 1 year time period is up.. The Revis bonus (supposedly 18 million) though is going to add a significant amount to the Jets cap. So there is no real way to know where the Jets are right now. Above or below the cap number. They do have 57 players under contract. Dead money is not as big of an issue for the Pats, but it definitely is for the Jets.

Over at JETSCAP he has accounted for the cut players and has a cap figure of $101M which includes Revis option bonus amortization. What he doesn't include is $10M in dead cap and $4M in workout bonuses. Or the $10M franchise tag they slapped on LB David Harris. Which would put them at $125M+. And cash committed of $120M+ when you factor in Revis option bonus and Mangold's supercede bonus and workout bonuses to the salaries he shows...