NFLN: Brady/Manning Debate

[Snake Eyes]

I agree with most said, however, to be fair I want to mention one thing that only gets brought up from Bradys side in the argument.

I believe, like Brady and the Pats, Peyton makes his weapons appear better than they actually are.

When Clark went down, he made Jacob Tamme, a complete unknown, look like a stud. Im not sure Clark is that great on another team.

Hes made Pierre Garcon, a crappy WR IMO, shine in alot of moments.

I dont think Reggie Wayne is an All pro type WR. Hes probably a very good WR on other tesms. Satan even made Blair White look good.

Just being objective, I believe the colts weapons are better, but not by much.

YouTube - ‪Pierre Garcon INSANE ONE HANDED CATCH‬‏

A crappy WR doesnt make this play, Garcon is a sometimes STUD, making some awesome plays, but he's inconsistent, failing to make some easy plays.

 

[IndyColtfans]

I love how his whole career Brady has had no one. Dillion, Moss, Welker, total nobodies.

He hasn't had one of the greatest coaches in NFL history his whole career either. Or good to great defenses his whole career.

Not to mention some luck (tuck rule play I'm looking right at you).

Teams win SBs, that's how Brady won the SB in 2001 despite passing for only 145 yards.

That's how they beat the Chargers in 2006 and 2007, despite Brady playing like crap.

Brady is a great QB and of course this is a NE Pats messageboard, but the fact is Brady's team kept right on going without him in 2008. They won 11 games with a guy who hadn't started since HS.

And you guys love to talk about Manning "choking" in the PO's.....Brady and the Pats have done their fair share of choking the last few years. 2005 they get killed in Denver. 2006 with a 18 point lead they lose to the Colts in the AFC Title game....they had a chance at the end...but Brady threw an INT, in 2007 they're 18-0 and they lose the SB in the biggest game in franchise history to a 10-6 WC team. 2009.....I forget what happened in 2009....maybe some of you Pats fans can remind me, I just remember Brady had kind of a subpar game. And last year they lose to the Jets....at home....after going 14-2.

As for QB ratings....have you noticed that Brady's postseason rating has been going down..straight down the last few seasons while Manning's has gone up?

Remember that used to be one of the big brags you guys used....how Brady turned up his game in the PO's? So what happened? Why has his rating gone down for so many years now? Heck, he's behind Manning now.

You guys are the biggest bunch of homer crybabies ever. Just like in 2007 you talked smack all year long nonstop...then when your team lost in the SB and this place was flooded with fans of other teams rubbing your faces in it .....the mods shut the message boards down lol.

The Pats haven't won crap in years....and suddenly MVPS and regular season records mean something to Pats fans. Remember when Manning won his MVPs and all you Pats fans were saying they didn't mean crap? I do.

The thing that really makes me laugh is you talk about how Brady had no help on offense (which is ridiculous), while ignoring that the Pats were a defensive slug it out kind of team and that they had a great D, a great QB, a great coach etc.

You act like Brady was out there winning those SBs by himself. Have you noticed since the D's not been so good Brady hasn't won much? He started of, what 9-0 in the PO's and now he's what, 14-5 and his postseason numbers continue to drop?

Really, Brady is a great QB but you guys are ridiculous.

 

[Deus Irae]

I love how his whole career Brady has had no one. Dillion, Moss, Welker, total nobodies. ....

Really, Brady is a great QB but you guys are ridiculous.

And a Clots troll comes out of the woodwork during this slow offseason.

How quaint!

Manning's had the players on offense, meaning his offensive totals are directly aided by those players. Trying to equate that to Brady playing with better defenses and getting indirect help with his numbers as a result, while amusing to us, just demonstrates a desperate cluelessness which is all too prevalent among the Manning Rumpswab brigade.

Now, have a great holiday tomorrow!

 

[Keyser Söze]

I love how his whole career Brady has had no one. Dillion, Moss, Welker, total nobodies.

He hasn't had one of the greatest coaches in NFL history his whole career either. Or good to great defenses his whole career.

Not to mention some luck (tuck rule play I'm looking right at you).

Teams win SBs, that's how Brady won the SB in 2001 despite passing for only 145 yards.

That's how they beat the Chargers in 2006 and 2007, despite Brady playing like crap.

Brady is a great QB and of course this is a NE Pats messageboard, but the fact is Brady's team kept right on going without him in 2008. They won 11 games with a guy who hadn't started since HS.

And you guys love to talk about Manning "choking" in the PO's.....Brady and the Pats have done their fair share of choking the last few years. 2005 they get killed in Denver. 2006 with a 18 point lead they lose to the Colts in the AFC Title game....they had a chance at the end...but Brady threw an INT, in 2007 they're 18-0 and they lose the SB in the biggest game in franchise history to a 10-6 WC team. 2009.....I forget what happened in 2009....maybe some of you Pats fans can remind me, I just remember Brady had kind of a subpar game. And last year they lose to the Jets....at home....after going 14-2.

As for QB ratings....have you noticed that Brady's postseason rating has been going down..straight down the last few seasons while Manning's has gone up?

Remember that used to be one of the big brags you guys used....how Brady turned up his game in the PO's? So what happened? Why has his rating gone down for so many years now? Heck, he's behind Manning now.

You guys are the biggest bunch of homer crybabies ever. Just like in 2007 you talked smack all year long nonstop...then when your team lost in the SB and this place was flooded with fans of other teams rubbing your faces in it .....the mods shut the message boards down lol.

The Pats haven't won crap in years....and suddenly MVPS and regular season records mean something to Pats fans. Remember when Manning won his MVPs and all you Pats fans were saying they didn't mean crap? I do.

The thing that really makes me laugh is you talk about how Brady had no help on offense (which is ridiculous), while ignoring that the Pats were a defensive slug it out kind of team and that they had a great D, a great QB, a great coach etc.

You act like Brady was out there winning those SBs by himself. Have you noticed since the D's not been so good Brady hasn't won much? He started of, what 9-0 in the PO's and now he's what, 14-5 and his postseason numbers continue to drop?

Really, Brady is a great QB but you guys are ridiculous.

Cold, Hard Football Facts.com: Brady vs. Manning: Complete & Unabridged, Vol. II

Bye, don't let the door hit you in the ass. Mannings is grossly overrated.

 

[IndyColtfans]

And a Clots troll comes out of the woodwork during this slow offseason.

How quaint!

Manning's had the players on offense, meaning his offensive totals are directly aided by those players. Trying to equate that to Brady playing with better defenses and getting indirect help with his numbers as a result, while amusing to us, just demonstrates a desperate cluelessness which is all too prevalent among the Manning Rumpswab brigade.

Now, have a great holiday tomorrow!

Yeah, you missed the point genius. I was responding to all you guys going on about SB rings and how Brady has more (although it's been awhile since he's won one).

The big defense is the 3 rings. And Brady didn't win those himself. He had a great D a great coach and even in the worst of times a decent offensive cast, he certainly had help during the SB wins.

If you want to talk just sheer numbers most of them are about equal and as far as totals go, Manning is far ahead of Brady.

 

[IndyColtfans]

Cold, Hard Football Facts.com: Brady vs. Manning: Complete & Unabridged, Vol. II

Bye, don't let the door hit you in the ass. Mannings is grossly overrated.

Lol, yeah I took a quick look a that, I noticed it only goes up to 2004. Wonder why?

 

[Deus Irae]

Yeah, you missed the point genius. I was responding to all you guys going on about SB rings and how Brady has more (although it's been awhile since he's won one).

The big defense is the 3 rings. And Brady didn't win those himself. He had a great D a great coach and even in the worst of times a decent offensive cast, he certainly had help during the SB wins.

If you want to talk just sheer numbers most of them are about equal and as far as totals go, Manning is far ahead of Brady.

First, I didn't miss the point. You made several claims in your screed. I was pointing out one, where you made an absolutely ridiculous argument.

Second, Manning's numbers are not ahead of Brady, except in compiler stats relating to longevity. Not even counting wins or winning percentage, Brady's got the edge when you eliminate longevity/compiler issues:

Overall
TD% - tie (5.5%)
INT% - adv. Brady (2.2 vs 2.7)
QB rating - adv. Brady (95.2 vs 94.9)
Comp% - adv. Manning (64.9 vs 63.6)

Indoors QB Rating
Brady: 103.1
Manning: 98.7

Outdoors QB Rating
Brady: 94.4
Manning: 90.8

Indoors Comp%
Brady: 67.2
Manning: 65.5

Outdoors Comp%
Brady: 63.2
Manning: 64.3

Yards/Attempt indoors
Brady: 8.4
Manning: 7.8

Yards/Attempt outdoors
Brady: 7.3
Manning: 7.4

Brady's beating Manning on the splits, as well as rings won and winning percentage. Thanks for playing!

 

[IndyColtfans]

First, I didn't miss the point. You made several claims in your screed. I was pointing out one, where you made an absolutely ridiculous argument.

Second, Manning's numbers are not ahead of Brady, except in compiler stats relating to longevity. Not even counting wins or winning percentage, Brady's got the edge when you eliminate longevity/compiler issues:

Overall
TD% - tie (5.5%)
INT% - adv. Brady (2.2 vs 2.7)
QB rating - adv. Brady (95.2 vs 94.9)
Comp% - adv. Manning (64.9 vs 63.6)

Indoors QB Rating
Brady: 103.1
Manning: 98.7

Outdoors QB Rating
Brady: 94.4
Manning: 90.8

Indoors Comp%
Brady: 67.2
Manning: 65.5

Outdoors Comp%
Brady: 63.2
Manning: 64.3

Yards/Attempt indoors
Brady: 8.4
Manning: 7.8

Yards/Attempt outdoors
Brady: 7.3
Manning: 7.4

Brady's beating Manning on the splits, as well as rings won and winning percentage. Thanks for playing!

Funny, you didn't post PS ratings. Why?

 

[Deus Irae]

Funny, you didn't post PS ratings. Why?

 

[IndyColtfans]

Also:

54,828>34744
399>261

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Funny, you didn't post PS ratings. Why?

14-4 W-L record to peyton's 9-10 PS record. plus the one i love the most - 3 Super Bowl wins to Peyton's 1.

 

[Deus Irae]

Also:

54,828>34744
399>261

Those are compiler and longevity stats, slick.

 

[IndyColtfans]

That confused you huh?

Here you go tiger:

Brady 85.7 (and sinking every year for awhile now)

Manning: 88.4 and rising.

Remember when Pats fans used to crow about how Brady raised his game when the stakes got higher? Remember when you guys used to point out how much higher his PS rating was compared to Manning's?

I do.

 

[IndyColtfans]

Those are compiler and longevity stats, slick.

All stats are compiled lol, unless you want to just go season by season "slick".

And Manning has been in the league one more season than Brady.

 

[Jetssuck]

I love how his whole career Brady has had no one. Dillion, Moss, Welker, total nobodies.

He hasn't had one of the greatest coaches in NFL history his whole career either. Or good to great defenses his whole career.

Manning has had one of the greatest general managers in NFL history.

Not to mention some luck (tuck rule play I'm looking right at you).

You should be looking at the rule book where the Tuck rule is and was properly called.

Teams win SBs, that's how Brady won the SB in 2001 despite passing for only 145 yards.

That's how they beat the Chargers in 2006 and 2007, despite Brady playing like crap.

Brady never won a superbowl in any year were he played like crap. A qb in Indianapolis won a superbowl despite playing like crap in all four games

Brady is a great QB and of course this is a NE Pats messageboard, but the fact is Brady's team kept right on going without him in 2008. They won 11 games with a guy who hadn't started since HS.

And that same qb they won 11 games with is a pro-bowler who won 10 games with KC. Jim Sorgi had a better passer rating with the Colts than MAtt Cassel had with the Patriots. How long before we see Jim Sorgi making the pro-bowl?

And you guys love to talk about Manning "choking" in the PO's.....Brady and the Pats have done their fair share of choking the last few years. 2005 they get killed in Denver. 2006 with a 18 point lead they lose to the Colts in the AFC Title game....they had a chance at the end...but Brady threw an INT, in 2007 they're 18-0 and they lose the SB in the biggest game in franchise history to a 10-6 WC team. 2009.....I forget what happened in 2009....maybe some of you Pats fans can remind me, I just remember Brady had kind of a subpar game. And last year they lose to the Jets....at home....after going 14-2.

Brady has played bad of late, but Manning has been bad his whole career. 14-5 versus 9-10

As for QB ratings....have you noticed that Brady's postseason rating has been going down..straight down the last few seasons while Manning's has gone up?

Remember that used to be one of the big brags you guys used....how Brady turned up his game in the PO's? So what happened? Why has his rating gone down for so many years now? Heck, he's behind Manning now.

Manning has played more wildcard games against weaker opponents. Have you noticed almost a third of his playoff tds have come in 2 playoff games against the wildcard Broncos?

The Pats haven't won crap in years....and suddenly MVPS and regular season records mean something to Pats fans. Remember when Manning won his MVPs and all you Pats fans were saying they didn't mean crap? I do.

Difference was that Manning was winning mvps and Brady was winning superbowls and superbowl mvps. Now Brady is winning mvps and Manning is winning nothing.

The thing that really makes me laugh is you talk about how Brady had no help on offense (which is ridiculous), while ignoring that the Pats were a defensive slug it out kind of team and that they had a great D, a great QB, a great coach etc.

It's a fact. Manning has had 23 pro-bowlers at skilled positions. Brady has had only 5. You can't scapegoat the Colts defense for Manning's lousy playoff record. The Colts defense has allowed 383 points. The Patriots defense has allowed 370 points. That's less than a point per game difference.

 

[IndyColtfans]

14-4 W-L record to peyton's 9-10 PS record. plus the one i love the most - 3 Super Bowl wins to Peyton's 1.

14-5, you forgot one buddy. You probably tried to mentally block out the 2007 SB or something.


Also, since starting 9-0 Brady is 5-5 and his PS rating has gone down for years now.

 

[Deus Irae]

All stats are compiled lol, unless you want to just go season by season "slick".

And Manning has been in the league one more season than Brady.

Manning's played longer, and he's thrown more passes. And by "compiler and longevity", I mean volume. I thought it would be understood. I forgot I was dealing with a Colts troll. My mistake.

 

[IndyColtfans]

"Manning has had one of the greatest general managers in NFL history."

Yeah, BB is pretty bad at being a GM right?

 

[Deus Irae]

That confused you huh?

Here you go tiger:

Brady 85.7 (and sinking every year for awhile now)

Manning: 88.4 and rising.

Remember when Pats fans used to crow about how Brady raised his game when the stakes got higher? Remember when you guys used to point out how much higher his PS rating was compared to Manning's?

I do.

I was confused by the notion that anyone would be fool enough to pretend that a 9-10 record with 1 ring would be a good place to compare against 14-5 with 3 rings. I figured you must have made a mistake. Normally, I'd bash you about the head for this sort of silliness, but you being a Colts fan is likely punishment enough for you.

Also, Brady's rating for last year was higher than both his and Manning's career playoff QB ratings.

 

[IndyColtfans]

"Difference was that Manning was winning mvps and Brady was winning superbowls and superbowl mvps. Now Brady is winning mvps and Manning is winning nothing.

Lol, sure, Manning has won 1 SB and what, 2 MVPs since Brady won his last SB?

So since 2004 lets see...

Brady.... 1 MVP
Manning 2 MVPs and 1 SB and SB MVP

Gosh.