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Are we on the cusp of Brady deal??


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Kraft has already handed Wilfork $18M in bonus money and Bodden is estimated to have gotten $6M. The rookies and other signings and what they likely set aside earmarked for Mankins probably totals another $20M+. $45M or so in bonus money. Kraft doesn't have the net operating income to pay out $95-100M in cash over cap in one season. About the only owner who does is Snyder. The most recent 2009 Forbes guesstimates had our 2008 operating income at $70M. Indy was at $56M. That is where bonus money (as well as all other operating expenses like coaching salaries and franchise and stadium operations) comes from.

Even if your cash over cap estimate is correct AND I doubt that it is, your analysis ignores that the fact that the Patriots could sign Brady today to an extension that included a $50 million signing bonus, be able to prorate the entire amount in his 2010 cap number, and set up a payment schedule in which Brady would get the $50 million over 5 years.
 
Even if your cash over cap estimate is correct AND I doubt that it is, your analysis ignores that the fact that the Patriots could sign Brady today to an extension that included a $50 million signing bonus, be able to prorate the entire amount in his 2010 cap number, and set up a payment schedule in which Brady would get the $50 million over 5 years.
Are you saying that Brady can get a 50,000,000 signing bonus today, and zero of it will count against future caps?
If so, is it possible that the new CBA can reverse that situation, and change the way it counts toward future cap years?
 
Are you saying that Brady can get a 50,000,000 signing bonus today, and zero of it will count against future caps?
If so, is it possible that the new CBA can reverse that situation, and change the way it counts toward future cap years?

Inquiring minds want to know!!! Miguel, can you explain?
 
Really? But you don't want to explain what it is you think I've got backwards, eh? LOL

No. It would be a waste of time. Your point is manifestly incorrect, yet you posted seemingly 9 million words on the topic. Let me try pointing out the obvious to you, and I'll leave it at that:

If the players didn't want to get deals done, they wouldn't be asking for them, holding out for them, and refusing to sign tenders in an attempt to get them.
 
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Are you saying that Brady can get a 50,000,000 signing bonus today, and zero of it will count against future caps?
If so, is it possible that the new CBA can reverse that situation, and change the way it counts toward future cap years?

I doubt it since the CBA calls for signing bonus to be automatically pro rated (using the term SHALL in Article XXIV Section 7 (b)(i) Proration). And the 30% rule would preclude it from being anything else (roster bonus or salary).

And teams are concerned that the next CBA might look to penalize anyone who succeeded in ending around the restrictions in the uncapped year. Not to mention Brady isn't taking a 5 year payout of his up front money...without one hell of a lot of prescribed interest. Teams avoid paying interest on deferred payments by making them within a league year. Last time they tried to stretch Brady's bonus into more extensive increments he pitched a fit. He was OK with the split signing and option bonus language and having his $26.5M doled out to him over a period of 10-12 months in each case and not years. That they wanted (supposedly presumed it was fine with him) to dole it out in several additional increments was what led to the Tom Curran article on the holdup in Brady's 2005 contract extension... Within a couple of weeks they backtracked claiming it was a misunderstanding and Brady got his bonus money all paid within 2 years (the signing bonus paid up by March of the following season and the Option bonus paid in two installments on or before July 15 2006 and July 15 2007) in addition to $5M in salary and guarantees covering several million in later salaries against injury. All of that was in addition to the implicit guarantee his level of amortization provides against being cut. Eliminate that implicit guarantee and anything beyond his signing bonus becomes money not worth the paper the contract is printed on... It becomes sunk cost a team can walk away from at any time. Kinda like the Raiders walked away from JaMarcus this season because the uncapped year made it easy to. He had no signing bonus amortization, just guaranteed salary he'd mostly already been paid through 2010.

As for the use of supercede and completion bonus language, there are pitfalls with both. First off Kraft doesn't likely want to be seen as pulling an end around the rules, kinda like when he didn't choose to snag Welker with a poison pill offer he knew the league frowned on. The supercede bonus isn't guaranteed, you have to get through the season to earn it in the following season. I would imagine this season the following season language would be hedged on their being one (as we have seen in most of the recent deals). And the completion bonus can be voided if you somehow don't complete the conditions which are attending camp, not holding out and again, getting through the season. It was a viable method for circumventing the 30% rule in 2009 (which is not the problem in the QB deals) because it counts toward the next season if achieved. The next season in this case will be a capped one...or there won't be one.

Miguel and I have argued in the past the difference between what you could theoretically do and whether or not either side would choose to... In capology the rule of thumb has long been there is no such thing as can't... Which is true in theory, though not necessarily in practice. Kinda like when Bill says we can afford to sign any player we want to (provided we accept the caveat that in choosing to there will be tradeoffs).
 
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No. It would be a waste of time. Your point is manifestly incorrect, yet you posted seemingly 9 million words on the topic. Let me try pointing out the obvious to you, and I'll leave it at that:

If the players didn't want to get deals done, they wouldn't be asking for them, holding out for them, and refusing to sign tenders in an attempt to get them.

Remind me exactly which two players are holding out and which handful refused to sign tenders and which of them is a QB...

People want things they can't logically have all the time...
 
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Remind me exactly which two players are holding out and which handful refused to sign tenders and which of them is a QB...

People want things they can't logically have all the time...

Yes, it's true that many players grudgingly accepted the tenders. You, apparently, are seriously trying to imply that those who signed the tenders under the threat of them being lowered actually wanted to go that route.

See, this sort of positioning by you is why this discussion would be a waste of time.
 
I think it makes sense for both sides to have a deal done before Brady steps on the field, but it's not going to happen. There hasn't been talk of movement on either side. If it's not done by week 1 then it won't happen until the end of the season.
 
Yes, it's true that many players grudgingly accepted the tenders. You, apparently, are seriously trying to imply that those who signed the tenders under the threat of them being lowered actually wanted to go that route.

See, this sort of positioning by you is why this discussion would be a waste of time.

Of course they didn't want to go that route. It's human nature to prefer long term security and tens of millions more than to be faced with the cold hard reality that life isn't always fair... It sucks to be a player with 4-5-6 years of service on the eve of a lockout who is unable to reach free agency because of a rule that has existed in the CBA since it was first enacted in the 1990's...only you didn't realize that until a couple of months ago... Yup, the tradeoff of 2 years of FA for that highly touted uncapped year in the event either side blinked has been on the books since the present CBA (which has merely been extended with negotiated modifications in the 15+ years since was first ratified.

I didn't go to college on a football scholarship and it isn't even my job, but I knew this over a year ago and if it had been my job it impacted I'd have know it long before that...and being a realist I'd have opted to get the best deal I could under the circumstances, unless I already had tens of millions in the bank in which case I'd likely roll the dice on getting a better deal later on as opposed to settling for non guaranteed rolling guarantees...

One of the reasons football players have long been viewed as the ugly stepchildren of FA is because few of them ever bothered to get involved in their own contract and union dealings preferring to just mosey along like sheep led around by the nose by commission agents and the NFLPA. Heck, they still don't even get to elect their own union leader...

If you asked any of them or any retired player/analyst a year ago what the 30% rule meant or what reallocation was you'd be hard pressed to get a remotely coherent response, let alone one that was in the ballpark of accurate. I listen to them cavalierly ballaxe the cap on the radio and cringe. I read articles where paid mediots ballaxe the cap and contracts and rules of the CBA and cringe almost daily.

There is little point in anyone having a discussion with you beyond killing if not wasting time. On some level it's been that way since the day you arrived, only it's gotten worse over time as you've alienated almost everyone on multiple boards with your semantic hijacks and contrarian for contrarian sake pissing matches and smug, smarter than any of you homer dolts attitude. Miguel or Andy or I may not agree on lots of things. But whatever I know about the cap (or the desire to ever even grasp it) was born of arguments and discussions and disagreements we all had here back when Brady's last deal was being hammered out and we were all trying to determine what could, should or would result. The difference between then and now was it was an exercise in education for all of us in the final analysis, and we never sunk to name calling or labeling or drawing lines in the sand just to piss at each other across them. With the possible exception of NEM and a couple of knuckleheads, it was a much friendlier and respectful place to be than it is today. Hmm...what does that say.
 
....Dumervil's deal underscores why you don't want to do a deal in this atmosphere.....

Of course they didn't want to go that route. It's human nature to prefer long term security and tens of millions more than to be faced with the cold hard reality that life isn't always fair

Thanks for contradicting yourself and proving my point. I'd respond to the rest of your post, but it's just not worth the time. Your personal attack is amusing, in that I was one of the people who was asking you not to leave the board when you were having your hissy fit a couple of years back, and you've spent much of the past 18 months attacking me for basically being right about what the Patriots were doing last season, but that's really not something to wax on about in the thread.




Now, what position do you have in the organization?
 
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I think it makes sense for both sides to have a deal done before Brady steps on the field, but it's not going to happen. There hasn't been talk of movement on either side. If it's not done by week 1 then it won't happen until the end of the season.

Brady would be crazy to play any game without a new deal. he would be risking to much.
 
Thanks for contradicting yourself and proving my point.




Now, what position do you have in the organization?

I didn't contradict myself. You just have comprehension issues born of your overweaning desire to disprove anything anyone who disagrees with you says. Dumervil was a young player looking to bank some money on the eve of a lockout. He settled for the best he could get in the present environment. He may be fine as long as he doesn't hold his breath until he sees tens of millions of it. Or he may not see another dime of it which while remote before last week considering his luck isn't entirely out of the question. The deal he settled for isn't the kind that will remotely appeal to Brady or Manning because they both have banked tens of millions and plan to do so again as soon as a deal that guarantees them that can be constructed.
 
I didn't contradict myself. You just have comprehension issues born of your overweaning desire to disprove anything anyone who disagrees with you says. Dumervil was a young player looking to bank some money on the eve of a lockout. He settled for the best he could get in the present environment. He may be fine as long as he doesn't hold his breath until he sees tens of millions of it. Or he may not see another dime of it which while remote before last week considering his luck isn't entirely out of the question. The deal he settled for isn't the kind that will remotely appeal to Brady or Manning because they both have banked tens of millions and plan to do so again as soon as a deal that guarantees them that can be constructed.

further discussion and review into all the nuances of the deal with people who have seen the paperwork have revealed Dumervil is indeed covered this season.

The Broncos have signed on the dotted line to pay out if Dumervil misses a season, like he might in 2010, because of injury.

Analysis: The Dumervil contract question - The Denver Post

Wilfork got his big deal done in this "atmosphere", too, as did Bradford, but we'll all ignore that while we're at it.

As I said, there's no point discussing this.
 
Analysis: The Dumervil contract question - The Denver Post

Wilfork got his big deal done in this "atmosphere", too, as did Bradford, but we'll all ignore that while we're at it.

As I said, there's no point discussing this.

The Broncos can give their word regarding their intentions until hell freezes over and that won't change the fact that if Dumervil is cut before the first day of the "next" league year, which could be any time from March 2011 to god only knows when, they are under no contractual obligation to pay him another cent. Stranger things have happened. Just ask some of the former JETS players who were promised one thing by one administration only to find a new administration didn't honor those verbal committments.

Do you not after hours and days and weeks of discussion understand the difference between getting a new deal done and an extension under the rules of an expiring CBA??? There were no restrictions on how the Patriots could construct a contract for Wilfork, because aside from being tagged he was a UFA whose old deal had expired and whose big deal by the way will pale in comparison to the QB's. And the only restrictions on rookie deals are first year cap hit. The contract could be fully guaranteed for a bazillion dollars as long as they can fit the first year of it under their rookie cap.
 
BostonHerald.com - Blogs: Rap Sheet Blog Archive Patriots owner Robert Kraft and QB Tom Brady spent this morning playing golf together… what does it mean?
Wonder what this means?
1. Nothing they just wanted to play golf
2. brady is telling Kraft no way in hell some unproven player is playing lg
3. Gisele is in brazil and Tom got to leave the house
4. ?

Gisele likely isn't here yet since players live at the hotel during camp and you can't usually count on a weekend off in camp.

I think they are doing it just to make Michael Silver look like a fool.
 
I think they are doing it just to make Michael Silver look like a fool.

Michael Silver among many, many others, none of whom will recognize or acknowledge how foolish they have been.
 
The Broncos can give their word regarding their intentions until hell freezes over and that won't change the fact that if Dumervil is cut before the first day of the "next" league year, which could be any time from March 2011 to god only knows when, they are under no contractual obligation to pay him another cent. Stranger things have happened. Just ask some of the former JETS players who were promised one thing by one administration only to find a new administration didn't honor those verbal committments.

Do you not after hours and days and weeks of discussion understand the difference between getting a new deal done and an extension under the rules of an expiring CBA??? There were no restrictions on how the Patriots could construct a contract for Wilfork, because aside from being tagged he was a UFA whose old deal had expired and whose big deal by the way will pale in comparison to the QB's. And the only restrictions on rookie deals are first year cap hit. The contract could be fully guaranteed for a bazillion dollars as long as they can fit the first year of it under their rookie cap.

Tell you what.... call Dumervil and ask him if he's glad he signed that contract.
 
As I noted, this discussion is worthless. Your willingness to ignore the guarantee for injury in order to try making an irrelevant point about how the contract is crafted just demonstrates that.

Dumervil's deal is not presently guaranteed for anything. It will become guaranteed for injury on the first day of the next league year. He has to be there for that to happen.
 
Are you saying that Brady can get a 50,000,000 signing bonus today, and zero of it will count against future caps?
If so, is it possible that the new CBA can reverse that situation, and change the way it counts toward future cap years?

No, I am saying that the Patriots can extend Brady tomorrow with a $50 million signing bonus, be able to prorate it over 5 years even though they do not have to pay Brady the $50 million tomorrow. They can give Brady $30 million tomorrow, $10 million in 2011, and $10 million in 2012.
 
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