Jaworski: Taking away Welker crippled Pats

[BradyManny]

Again, it all comes down to math. If you can have a successful pass rush with 4 guys versus 5 OL, then you're going to have an advantage in coverage. And if it's going to be 5 (targets) vs. 7 DBs, then you better be sure each one of those 5 is a legitimate NFL offensive weapon, and I don't think either Aiken or Stanback are at this point.

Frankly, I don't understand why the Patriots don't just stay in the 2TE2WR set more often and keep the opposition in their base defense. If Brady has ample time, it doesn't matter how many people are covering Welker or Moss, they get open and Brady finds them. The idea of spreading them out is to create mismatches, but the depth at the wide receiver position is not there to create those mismatches.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Again, it all comes down to math. If you can have a successful pass rush with 4 guys versus 5 OL, then you're going to have an advantage in coverage. And if it's going to be 5 (targets) vs. 7 DBs, then you better be sure each one of those 5 is a legitimate NFL offensive weapon, and I don't think either Aiken or Stanback are at this point.

Frankly, I don't understand why the Patriots don't just stay in the 2TE2WR set more often and keep the opposition in their base defense. If Brady has ample time, it doesn't matter how many people are covering Welker or Moss, they get open and Brady finds them. The idea of spreading them out is to create mismatches, but the depth at the wide receiver position is not there to create those mismatches.

2TE set? Man, I haven't heard from Chris Baker since week 1. It would be nice to get him involved again.

 

[SVN]

2TE set? Man, I haven't heard from Chris Baker since week 1. It would be nice to get him involved again.

i believe they ran 2TE sets on the first drive vs the saints.

 

[Brarrell]

Here's the difference from 2007 your other wide recievers besides Moss and Welker caught 84 passes between Stallworth who the defense couldn't cheat on and Gaffney who would kill you with medium zone catches even Watson had 36 catches. The problem here is poor personel decisions by BB but I think it goes deeper than that. The Krafts won't spend the money "Bonus money" I don't care about signing other teams free agents I care about signing guys you know that can play in your system. Asante has proven to be a top 5 corner they don't grow on trees neither do nose tackles like Wilfork and gaurds like Mankins but yet they are unsigned. This team has the highest ticket prices in the NFL all there luxury suites are occupied they charge $40-$50 to park when is it enough? As a season ticket holder I am pretty close to giving them back their tickets if they won't invest in the team why should I. Those 3 superbowls are long gone and that beat down in the big easy was embarassing. Teams like Denver took advantage of us by literally stealing Gaffney because they knew the Pats wouldn'y pay him 2.5 mil a year it goes on and on. We haven't drafted or gone out and signed a pure pass rusher why? My guess is these guys cost a lot of cash and thats not the Pats business model. This is there model draft players squeeze every dime out of their rookie contract and pay the least amount of bonus money you can.

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

Here's the difference from 2007 your other wide recievers besides Moss and Welker caught 84 passes between Stallworth who the defense couldn't cheat on and Gaffney who would kill you with medium zone catches even Watson had 36 catches. The problem here is poor personel decisions by BB but I think it goes deeper than that. The Krafts won't spend the money "Bonus money" I don't care about signing other teams free agents I care about signing guys you know that can play in your system. Asante has proven to be a top 5 corner they don't grow on trees neither do nose tackles like Wilfork and gaurds like Mankins but yet they are unsigned. This team has the highest ticket prices in the NFL all there luxury suites are occupied they charge $40-$50 to park when is it enough? As a season ticket holder I am pretty close to giving them back their tickets if they won't invest in the team why should I. Those 3 superbowls are long gone and that beat down in the big easy was embarassing. Teams like Denver took advantage of us by literally stealing Gaffney because they knew the Pats wouldn'y pay him 2.5 mil a year it goes on and on. We haven't drafted or gone out and signed a pure pass rusher why? My guess is these guys cost a lot of cash and thats not the Pats business model. This is there model draft players squeeze every dime out of their rookie contract and pay the least amount of bonus money you can.

Argue all you want about how the cap dollars are spent, but make no mistake that they are indeed spent. Cap analysis shows that the Pats aren't cutting corners by not forking out the dough. Plenty of threads on that.

Regards,
Chris

 

[Brono]

2TE set? Man, I haven't heard from Chris Baker since week 1. It would be nice to get him involved again.

FYI, Baker played 36 snaps against NO. I'd like to see him more involved as well.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Here's the difference from 2007 your other wide recievers besides Moss and Welker caught 84 passes between Stallworth who the defense couldn't cheat on and Gaffney who would kill you with medium zone catches even Watson had 36 catches. The problem here is poor personel decisions by BB but I think it goes deeper than that. The Krafts won't spend the money "Bonus money" I don't care about signing other teams free agents I care about signing guys you know that can play in your system. Asante has proven to be a top 5 corner they don't grow on trees neither do nose tackles like Wilfork and gaurds like Mankins but yet they are unsigned. This team has the highest ticket prices in the NFL all there luxury suites are occupied they charge $40-$50 to park when is it enough? As a season ticket holder I am pretty close to giving them back their tickets if they won't invest in the team why should I. Those 3 superbowls are long gone and that beat down in the big easy was embarassing. Teams like Denver took advantage of us by literally stealing Gaffney because they knew the Pats wouldn'y pay him 2.5 mil a year it goes on and on. We haven't drafted or gone out and signed a pure pass rusher why? My guess is these guys cost a lot of cash and thats not the Pats business model. This is there model draft players squeeze every dime out of their rookie contract and pay the least amount of bonus money you can.

Relax. Last time I checked Jeremy Jacobs did not own the Pats. They spend plenty.

Your bitterness it out of control. If you are that miserable, stay home. Goodness.

 

[NEPatriot]

BB knew about it. It's the reason he tried to find a third WR but he gambled on a wrong guy and the rest is history.

Moss is better used if he doesn't run a straight line or uses vertical jump to get the ball.

TB establishs a good connection with Moss and Welker. TB + Aiken or other WRs are not well together.

 

[NEPatriot]

If you were an OC and saw how another team covered your best WRs from upstair, why would you not do something about it?

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Abusing Koppen? Actually the guy who got abused was Wilhite....We need Butler on the field...

 

[jmt57]

Patriots are cheap rant

Unlike baseball, the NFL has this thing called a salary cap.

For all those former players that you suggest the Pats should have signed/extended, that is also that much less money to spend on players like McGowan, Bodden, etc.; would you prefer a return of Deltha O'Neal?

For your information, unfortunately the revenue from beer, luxury suites, and parking does not get added to the salary cap.

 

[RayClay]

Jaworski said the Saints may have stolen a play from the Patriots' game plan in the Super Bowl win over the St. Louis Rams.

"What Bill (Belichick) did to Marshall Faulk was successful," he said. "They hit Marshall whenever they could. They chipped him at the line. They basically took him out of his normal rhythm. That's exactly what the Saints did to Kevin Faulk (I think he meant to write Welker) . You could see they wanted to frustrate him and they did."

Ha ha. I said the exact same thing. It's the greatest show that doesn't win the big one.

I actually don't care that posters think our 2007 team that folded is better than our teams that came through.

I am concerned that we indeed are the Rams, or the Colts before they wised up.

Maybe some time in the future, our "average" points complied by running it up against the weak sisters, will count for something.

Until then, it's still the same as 01,03,04. A 1 point win is the same as a 50 point margin. Damn, how did they fall into this trap?

 

[ALP]

Ha ha. I said the exact same thing. It's the greatest show that doesn't win the big one.

I actually don't care that posters think our 2007 team that folded is better than our teams that came through.

I am concerned that we indeed are the Rams, or the Colts before they wised up.

Maybe some time in the future, our "average" points complied by running it up against the weak sisters, will count for something.

Until then, it's still the same as 01,03,04. A 1 point win is the same as a 50 point margin. Damn, how did they fall into this trap?

lol, i love that.... the belief that the colts "CHANGED" to be what they are today...

for your information, and everyone else's with equal delusions, the colts are the exact team they were back when we owned them....

they still have their passing attack which is what they rely on, they have a running game only in name (which is actually weaker then w/ the edge)

and their d is same as it always has been

the role switching b/w the pats and colts between 01-present has a heck of a lot more to do with fortune then the colts "wisening up"

although we sure have changed in the span, the colts are same old same old....just that OUR old philosophy could beat them, while they are still the best at what they do, and we now that we try to do what they do are second best

we used to face the colts w/ our own philosphy....now we face them with theirs, and they are still better at it, they afterall do have more experience in it

 

[Kontradiction]

Here's the difference from 2007 your other wide recievers besides Moss and Welker caught 84 passes between Stallworth who the defense couldn't cheat on and Gaffney who would kill you with medium zone catches even Watson had 36 catches. The problem here is poor personel decisions by BB but I think it goes deeper than that. The Krafts won't spend the money "Bonus money" I don't care about signing other teams free agents I care about signing guys you know that can play in your system. Asante has proven to be a top 5 corner they don't grow on trees neither do nose tackles like Wilfork and gaurds like Mankins but yet they are unsigned. This team has the highest ticket prices in the NFL all there luxury suites are occupied they charge $40-$50 to park when is it enough? As a season ticket holder I am pretty close to giving them back their tickets if they won't invest in the team why should I. Those 3 superbowls are long gone and that beat down in the big easy was embarassing. Teams like Denver took advantage of us by literally stealing Gaffney because they knew the Pats wouldn'y pay him 2.5 mil a year it goes on and on. We haven't drafted or gone out and signed a pure pass rusher why? My guess is these guys cost a lot of cash and thats not the Pats business model. This is there model draft players squeeze every dime out of their rookie contract and pay the least amount of bonus money you can.

This is ridiculous. The Pats have managed the salary cap well enough to become a dynasty in a time which dynasties weren't supposed to happen. You don't become competitive year in and year out by overspending on one particular person. You become competitive year in and year out by drafting well, paying your gamebreakers (like Brady, Moss, Welker, and Mayo), and picking up free agents that fit your system at minimum cost. We have done all of this up until recently. Should we pay Wilfork? Absolutely. Will we? I can't say for sure. All I can say is that if we don't, BB must have a ton of trust in Ron Brace. However, I said the same thing after Seymour got traded (that BB must have a ton of trust in Pryor and Green to get it done) and have been wrong about it so far.

If you were an OC and saw how another team covered your best WRs from upstair, why would you not do something about it?

Agreed. O'Brien should have punched Darren Sharper in the face.

Abusing Koppen? Actually the guy who got abused was Wilhite....We need Butler on the field...

Can't say I disagree here. I'm not actually sure why Butler ISN'T on the field more than he is. He's still raw, but he's shown promise.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

Pats are 0-4 in opponent's stadiums, Houston is the only remaining road game after this week (and I think Miami is too undermanned to win) and Houston has a DL that can bring pressure. Houston should have beaten the Colts...twice. I think "scare" is too strong a word, but the Pats will have their hands full in that game.

Regards,
Chris

Even if you didn't have the road stat working for you, all you'd have to say is Mario Williams.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Agreed. Outside runs are not part of the offense. Need a blocking FB or a TE who blocks (see Daniel Graham)....

Athletically, Maroney is very capable of turning the corner...

I think the loss of Dan Graham was a huge loss for the team. I think even if overpaid he should have been kept around. He did improve his receiving enough to keep opposing teams off balance if he went out in routes.

 

[JoeShmoe]

Even if you take away Welker and Moss we shouldnt be a 2 reciever team. Manning is getting the same thing done with 2 rookies atcahing balls when teams are double covering Wayne and Clark, and the reason is a balanced offense with plenty of guys getting the ball

If we cant (like we always used to) find ways to get Watson (who we know can catch the ball) or Edelman or Maroney or whoever else the ball then thats just poor coaching and offensive planning

If the O-Line is under that much pressure all the time from 4 guys (even with TE's in to block) then theres a major personnel issue there. Personally I think Koppen and Kazcur get abused far too often, Neal only ever lasts a quarter which seems to disrupt the whole line and Brady just looks jittery behind them

Lets see some quick slants/fades to Moss, put Welker wide and use Edelman in the slot if WW is doubled, Maroney out the backfield, more use of Watson and way more plays from under center with a balanced running game

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think the loss of Dan Graham was a huge loss for the team. I think even if overpaid he should have been kept around. He did improve his receiving enough to keep opposing teams off balance if he went out in routes.

I could not agree with you more.

Without lamenting or going back in time, a factor in the Sb 42 loss was b/c Daniel Graham was not there to handle Umenyora, Strahan, Tuck, etc.

His importance was not in the passing game. It was the run & pass blocking.

HUGE LOSS.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

I agree Brady needs to take off when he sees an opening. This will keep Other D honest. There were times throughout the season that Brady could have picked up 1st downs or could have made it close for a 3rd or 4th conversion. Middle is wide open at times. I mean they call QB sneaks on 4th and inches or on goal line so its not like hes shying away.

 

[RayClay]

lol, i love that.... the belief that the colts "CHANGED" to be what they are today...

for your information, and everyone else's with equal delusions, the colts are the exact team they were back when we owned them...

Addai has regressed and Rhodes is gone. I was talking about the Super Bowl season quite plainly.

Ha ha. I said the exact same thing. It's the greatest show that doesn't win the big one.

Here are the 2006 FACTS

Addai 1081 yds - 4.8 yds a carry
Rhodes 641 yds.

I guess that would make me right and you wrong.