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Jaworski: Taking away Welker crippled Pats

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by SVN, Dec 4, 2009.

  1. SVN

    SVN Rookie

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  2. Mack Herron

    Mack Herron Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    He makes 3 points:

    1. Offense too dependent on WW
    2. Cannot block the blitz (he did nto mention inability to block 5 on 3)
    3. No pass rush (calls out AD, Burgess)
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2009
  3. borg

    borg Rookie

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    He also failed to point out that Koppen has been getting abused
  4. chris_in_sunnyvale

    chris_in_sunnyvale Rookie

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    I'm surprised the Saints are the first team to do this (take away Welker). It's been obvious that Welker is the guy who makes the offense go, not Moss. It's like the Colts with Clark...dare the QB to win throwing to secondary receivers. If he can, then more power to him, but at least make him do that.

    The Pats are going to be looking at a lot more Saints-style D the rest of the way. If they don't force the D to change up (e.g. more power running, Brady with designed runs when 8 drop in coverage), the Pats are going to struggle, especially in the finale @ Houston.

    Regards,
    Chris
  5. chris_in_sunnyvale

    chris_in_sunnyvale Rookie

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    Koppen has been getting abused for 3+ seasons now. Put a guy on his nose and he struggles mightily in pass protection. Ditto Mankins. Both are much better steering guys away who line up in gaps, in help situations or picking up LBs/safeties on the blitz. The '07 Ravens and the SB42 Giants regularly put guys over them which played a role in the struggles. Teams have to have the personnel to make it work, but there are teams out there that do and they are usually the types of teams you run into in January.

    Regards,
    Chris
  6. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    Huh? As in like bootlegs? Are you nuts?

    Why does Houston scare you more than other teams?
  7. borg

    borg Rookie

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    Considering that the Pats have held leads in most games...knowing the Pats have to/will pass made this stategy work in the 2nd half while trailing the Saints
  8. Satchboogie3

    Satchboogie3 Rookie

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    I think he meant that Brady should have taken off and run. If his receivers were covered, a pass rush was closing in on his sides, and no one was in front of him, he needs to run for a first down. Make the defense account for him.
  9. chris_in_sunnyvale

    chris_in_sunnyvale Rookie

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    Exactly. They can even design the plays for this like they did with Cassel last year. There were a few times in the home Jets game last year where Faulk would burst up the middle, then peel to the side and take the MLB with him. The moment Faulk cleared the short middle of the field, Cassel took off. The Pats need to do this with Brady, especially in the "rush 3, drop 8" situations.

    Regards,
    Chris
  10. chris_in_sunnyvale

    chris_in_sunnyvale Rookie

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    Pats are 0-4 in opponent's stadiums, Houston is the only remaining road game after this week (and I think Miami is too undermanned to win) and Houston has a DL that can bring pressure. Houston should have beaten the Colts...twice. I think "scare" is too strong a word, but the Pats will have their hands full in that game.

    Regards,
    Chris
  11. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    Glad you clarified, but I respectfully disagree. Cassel was an exceptional scrambling/running QB. Brady does not have that type of athleticism. Plus, Cassel throws better on the run. Again, Brady does not do that very well.

    Plus there is no need to have Brady out there on designed running plays. He goes down because some clown decides to pop him, Pat's season is over.
  12. chris_in_sunnyvale

    chris_in_sunnyvale Rookie

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    Cassel > Brady at such plays, no doubt, but Brady can get 5-8yds up the gut and slide if the D is dropping 8 into coverage and the Pats run some patterns that will clear out the short middle. Could Brady get a cheap-shot? Of course, but it seems like every game there's a play or two where rushers come in dangerously low.

    The bigger point is that by running such plays, the defense will adjust and therefore open up more room for the receivers if the short zones need to be respected and Brady needs a shadow...or the D will go back to rushing 4...either of which I'm fine with.

    Regards,
    Chris
  13. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    Agree 100% with you points from a play-design, chess-match standpoint and I'm all for Brady scrambling on broken plays (which he has done before) but I'm still against it. They are better off with your earlier statement which was to develop the running game where defensively, teams are playing run/pass much more honestly.
  14. Pat the Pats Fan

    Pat the Pats Fan Rookie

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    Chris, after this week @ the Phins, we have 2 more road games, @ Bills and @ Texans.
  15. borg

    borg Rookie

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    There is zero chance Brady runs, and virtually no threat of a RB trying to turn the corner...which frees up DEs/OLBs to collapse the pocket on run and pass plays
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2009
  16. Satchboogie3

    Satchboogie3 Rookie

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    That's the problem. They aren't respecting his mobility and he needs to prove that he can run it up the seem. Defenses won't stop dropping 7/8 into coverage until either the O-line mans up or Brady occasionally runs.
  17. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    Agreed. Outside runs are not part of the offense. Need a blocking FB or a TE who blocks (see Daniel Graham)....

    Athletically, Maroney is very capable of turning the corner...
  18. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    As far as Houston goes, I'd be much more concerned with their offense, with players like Andre Johnson and Matt Schaub, than with their defense. The Texans rank 18th in points allowed (22.1), 17th in yardage (333.8), and 30th in sacks (15); only the Chiefs and Jaguars have fewer sacks.

    Of those games remaining on the Pats' schedule, the team with best chance of applying pressure on Brady is the one they are playing this week; the Dolphins rank 2nd in the NFL with 35 sacks.
  19. BradyMoss812

    BradyMoss812 Rookie

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    The OC and Brady have to make better use of the likes of Aiken, Stanback, Edelman, Watson and Baker for this offense to really click.

    Just like the Saints, if you potentially have 6 or 7 guys that you can pass to, how the hell can you scheme for that effectively? The answer is that you can't.
  20. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    its not all on brady and O'Brien. With the exception of Edelman who does show promise, none of those receivers create a lot of seperation.

    You can create the greatest route ever, but if the receiver...
    A) runs bad routes
    B) cant make sudden cuts or run past the Db
    c) read the coverage
    d) has crappy hands

    There is not mcuh you can do.

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