McKelvin Wasn't Totally Dunb, Here's Why

[spacecrime]

Re: McKelvin Wasn't Totally Dunb,Here's Why

I'm with you on this one. I think it was okay that he ran it out ...

Me, too. But if I was a Bills fan, I would think it a bad move.

If he wanted to run time off the clock, he could have just stood there and take a knee before a Pat got to him.

If he wasn't sure if the ball was in the end zone or not, he shouldn't have caught it, just let it roll through and out.

He could have run it out and then gave himself up, as the OP said, but that would run less time off the clock than standing there because he would be going out to meet the Pats, not waiting for them to arrive.

Running the ball out is stupid IMO. Some still defend Marlon MacCree for intercepting the ball against the Pats, but for me it was dumb (fourth down, knock it down).

Running the ball out is like the Giants running the ball instead of taking a knee and losing the game when Herm scooped up the ball and ran it in.

What is more important? Six seconds or protectring the ball. If Jauran wanted him to run it out he would have given him blockers. It was 11 to 1 back there, and Meriweather was smart to hold him up until Woods stripped the ball.

Dumb, dumb, totally dumb.

Anyone who thinks it was a good idea is a Pats fan. Look at the final score.

 

[amhunt2]

There was 2:06 left on the clock......I believe that McKelvin was told to run it out,carefully,to run the 6 seconds off the clock to get to the 2 minute warning.If he took a knee,the Pats would still have had 3 or 4 seconds left until the 2 min W.
What he should have done is catch the ball and run parellel in the end zone,to run-off the 6 seconds(no one is that smart,however).

He,also said he wasn't sure that he caught the ball in the field of play,but I think this is just an excuse.

This big thing was he didn't want to kneel down a safety. He wasn't told to take it out to run the clock down. You're offense has to go out and get a first down regardless of whether there is a two-minute warning.

The only "stupid" thing he did was fumble the ball. But it was more of a GREAT play by Meriweather than a stupid one by McKelvin.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

Re: McKelvin Wasn't Totally Dunb,Here's Why

If he wanted to run time off the clock, he could have just stood there and take a knee before a Pat got to him.

[snip]

What is more important? Six seconds or protectring the ball.

Well, no he couldn't. The clock doesn't start to run until you take it out of the end zone, and once you do that, you're giving up massive field position if you don't run foward.

It was much more than six seconds. Those 6 seconds, if they are off the clock, would have cost the patriots another 40 plus seconds or required them to use time out they otherwise wouldn't have.

Protecting the ball is not inconsistent with running off the six seconds. Just cover the ball with both hands, run out, and go down on contact. As a Bills fan, I would have no problem at all with McKelvin's decision. But I would have a problem with his execution.

 

[italia44]

This big thing was he didn't want to kneel down a safety. He wasn't told to take it out to run the clock down. You're offense has to go out and get a first down regardless of whether there is a two-minute warning.

The only "stupid" thing he did was fumble the ball. But it was more of a GREAT play by Meriweather than a stupid one by McKelvin.

the POINT,with the six seconds is it leaves the pats defense with one LESS stoppage in play.This is major,no matter what you say.

 

[Synovia]

Re: McKelvin Wasn't Totally Dunb,Here's Why

Protecting the ball is not inconsistent with running off the six seconds. Just cover the ball with both hands, run out, and go down on contact. As a Bills fan, I would have no problem at all with McKelvin's decision. But I would have a problem with his execution.

Right, Running it out wasn't a bad decision. Trying to get extra yards from Merriweather was. The only thing that could have lost the Bills the game at that point was a turnover, and thats what he did. You need to run the ball out, and then get down.

 

[MexicanBillBacker]

**** my life

Bills have no right to put me through this **** every year

And this time you can't blame **** Jauron like years past

They put me trhough worse **** than my ex

 

[Metaphors]

Re: McKelvin Wasn't Totally Dunb,Here's Why

Right, Running it out wasn't a bad decision. Trying to get extra yards from Merriweather was. The only thing that could have lost the Bills the game at that point was a turnover, and thats what he did. You need to run the ball out, and then get down.

Run the ball out? Absolutely the right decision from a clock management perspective.

Run the ball up the middle of the field with the "hands" team blocking for you? Not so much.

Run the ball to the sidelines, keep the ball in your outside arm and hit the turf at the first sign of resistance? Sounds about right.

 

[bigcountry75]

There are mixed feelings on here about whether or not he should or shouldn't have brought it out. I think from a Bills standpoint he should have brought it out and did 1 of 2 things.......He could have run up the middle and right before anyone got to him just fall to the ground and protect the ball taking the 6 seconds off the clock or he could have run it out and ran towards the sidelines just in case he fumbled the ball could go out of bounds and they keep the ball.....Bottom line is he made a bad decision to fight for extra yards and the Pats made a great play stripping the ball......

 

[mesoslo]

There are mixed feelings on here about whether or not he should or shouldn't have brought it out. I think from a Bills standpoint he should have brought it out and did 1 of 2 things.......He could have run up the middle and right before anyone got to him just fall to the ground and protect the ball taking the 6 seconds off the clock or he could have run it out and ran towards the sidelines just in case he fumbled the ball could go out of bounds and they keep the ball.....Bottom line is he made a bad decision to fight for extra yards and the Pats made a great play stripping the ball......

I dont know for sure, but I think he was held up by a patriot player preventing him from going down to the ground. When he fumbled the ball he was on his way down, so he was trying to get down to the ground but the patriot player was behind him holding him up, while another patriot player came in and stripped the ball away.

 

[spacecrime]

the POINT,with the six seconds is it leaves the pats defense with one LESS stoppage in play.This is major,no matter what you say.

I say it cost the Bills the game. That seems kinda major to me.

That is the bottom line. He kneels and the Pats use all two of three time outs, and have to go the whole field with one time out rather than 30 yards with three time outs. Very tough to do.

If a Patriot did this (ran the ball out and got stripped) and we lost the game because he failed to play situational football and take a knee, you would be on his case like a rabid skunk.

 

[IcyPatriot]

**** my life

Bills have no right to put me through this **** every year

And this time you can't blame **** Jauron like years past

They put me trhough worse **** than my ex

Have a ... the Bills are headed in the right direction, they just need time.

 

[italia44]

I say it cost the Bills the game. That seems kinda major to me.

That is the bottom line. He kneels and the Pats use all two of three time outs, and have to go the whole field with one time out rather than 30 yards with three time outs. Very tough to do.

If a Patriot did this (ran the ball out and got stripped) and we lost the game because he failed to play situational football and take a knee, you would be on his case like a rabid skunk.

I'm not sure what your arguement is.......I'm saying that it was important that McKelvin run the 6 seconds by returning the kick.All he had to do was fall down when he was threatened by a tackler.
By doing this,the Bills would have reached the 2-minute warning and left the Pats with only 3 stoppages,instead of 4.

It's not a choice between a touchback and a fumble.......but,between a touchback and a flop-down after using 6 seconds on the game clock...........see?

 

[NovaScotiaPatsFan]

What he should have done is catch the ball and run parellel in the end zone,to run-off the 6 seconds

Henceforth to be referred to as "pulling a Stokley"

And yeah, I know Stokley's not the first guy to do it, but he's the most recent.

 

[makewayhomer]

I say it cost the Bills the game. That seems kinda major to me.

That is the bottom line. He kneels and the Pats use all two of three time outs, and have to go the whole field with one time out rather than 30 yards with three time outs. Very tough to do.

If a Patriot did this (ran the ball out and got stripped) and we lost the game because he failed to play situational football and take a knee, you would be on his case like a rabid skunk.

this is 100% the wrong way to look at the question. you need to divorce yourself from the results and look at the process instead.

(x %) of time the player is going to fumble when he returns the kick. this means he won't fumble (1 - x%) of the time. but this doesn't mean he makes the "right" decision (1 - x % of the time) and the "wrong" decision (x%) of the time. sometimes things just don't work out, it's the natural variance of sports. if it's the right decision to run the kick back, then it's right no matter what happens afterwards, it's just that you can't 100% predict what's going to happen b/c...the game is played by humans and sometimes (oftentimes) weird **** just happens

or another clearer example:

the game is tied with 10 seconds left, ball at midfield. Brady throws to a wide open Moss, who inexplicably has the ball bounce of his facemask into the hands of a defender who runs the INT back for the winning TD. Brady didn't make a bad decision to throw to a wide open Moss, it just didn't work out. Process & Expected Outcomes are more important than Results if you are trying to figure out what the right move is.

 

[bucky]

Re: McKelvin Wasn't Totally Dunb,Here's Why

It was much more than six seconds. Those 6 seconds, if they are off the clock, would have cost the patriots another 40 plus seconds or required them to use time out they otherwise wouldn't have.

The thing is, 6 seconds is a lot of time to waist once you start running. The play in question took 10 seconds - including him struggling to gain more yardage, fumbling, and the ensuing scramble for the ball. If he just brought it out and dropped to the turf at the 20 or stepped out of bounds, you're only looking at about 4-5 seconds ticking off.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I say it cost the Bills the game. That seems kinda major to me.

That is the bottom line. He kneels and the Pats use all two of three time outs, and have to go the whole field with one time out rather than 30 yards with three time outs. Very tough to do.

If a Patriot did this (ran the ball out and got stripped) and we lost the game because he failed to play situational football and take a knee, you would be on his case like a rabid skunk.

But the Pats practice situational football all the time. It's almost a BB mantra. I'm not sure that McKelvin and the other Bills players got the same type of coaching.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

But the Pats practice situational football all the time. It's almost a BB mantra. I'm not sure that McKelvin and the other Bills players got the same type of coaching.

Absolutely.

I think it's telling that right after the game, BB made a point when asked why didn't do an onside kick to note that there was 2:06 on the clock, and thus they would have gotten the extra time out of they'd managed a touchback.

The fact that he was thinking this way also indicates to me that if he was in the opposite position and receiving the kickoff there, up by 5, he would have understood the importance of the 6 seconds.

I think reasonable minds can differ over whether trying to run six seconds off is worth the risk of a turnover (or, the second bad option is a block in the back that puts you in very bad field position). There are arguments back and forth on this, reflected in this thread, and I think each side makes decent point, although it's hazardous ever to try to judge these questions in hindsight after you know the result. But that's not the important part -- what's important here is to have a coach or players that understand these issues and makes calculations accordingly. Maybe Juaron or McKelvin made the wrong decision here in hindsight. And maybe BB would have or would not have done the same. In the short term, stuff like this can backfire. Or, you can play the 60/40 percentage, and you'll still be wrong 40 percent of the time. But in the long run, this is exactly what I want my team's coach to be thinking about. Week after week after week you see coaches and players that have absolutely no sense of these sorts of situational matters. Maybe they get lucky sometimes, but I'd rather have my coach be the one who understands the options when choosing a course of action.

 

[Wolfpack]

There was 2:06 left on the clock......I believe that McKelvin was told to run it out,carefully,to run the 6 seconds off the clock to get to the 2 minute warning.If he took a knee,the Pats would still have had 3 or 4 seconds left until the 2 min W.
What he should have done is catch the ball and run parellel in the end zone,to run-off the 6 seconds(no one is that smart,however).

That Denver WR who scored that final TD is

He,also said he wasn't sure that he caught the ball in the field of play,but I think this is just an excuse.

I agree with your line of thinking. How many times have we seen a team with a lead and the ball play it too cautious, where all they do is run the ball 3 times up the middle, and take maybe 15 seconds of the clock?

IMHO, given the timeout and 2:00 warning situation, the Bills were in a position where they had to keep playing football.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Even if we got the ball back with a minute plus on the clock at our 40 yard line, I still think we would have won, because the Bills would stay in cover 2 and Brady is going back to Watson in the deep seam.

 

[makewayhomer]

The fact that he was thinking this way also indicates to me that if he was in the opposite position and receiving the kickoff there, up by 5, he would have understood the importance of the 6 seconds.

this is a good point, and actually points to the fact that BB would probably instruct his KR to run the kick out