Brady and Moss names mentioned in rap lyrics

[Deus Irae]

That's not the point either. You keep dancing around it, in lieu of an argument I suppose.

Your having a terrible argument is not the same as others dancing around the point.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Yo! Listen up as AlpineKat raps...

YouTube - Rare Isotope Rap

AlpineKat is dope!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j50ZssEojtM&feature=related

 

[West Philly Patriot]

Lmao apple strudel is kicking ass and takin names in this thread!! Rumble young man rumble!! It's a pleasure to read you dude you need your own blogsite. Just a kid from the gutter makin his butter off these blood suckers cuz he's a muhf*ckin renegade!!

 

[feldspar]

The machines let you accomplish different things musically - different sounds. It's like crapping on a guitarist for use a distortion pedal.

THIS has got to be the stupidest thing you've said so far, which is saying something.

Dude, what you have with rap a lot of times is people making rhymes over mechanical music. There is no human element at all except for the rapper. There are no people making music with instuments. If a musician has an effect on his instument like a distortion pedal, that's hardly the same as pressing buttons to create everything except the rapper's voice. To me, what makes good music good music is because it comes from people's heart. A machine is NEVER from the heart. A machine has no feeling.

 

[blackglass3]

Lmao apple strudel is kicking ass and takin names in this thread!! Rumble young man rumble!! It's a pleasure to read you dude you need your own blogsite. Just a kid from the gutter makin his butter off these blood suckers cuz he's a muhf*ckin renegade!!

It's a rap lyric, which is quite topical in the thread! Well played, sir!!

Seriously, though, welcome to the board.

 

[glm]

There is no human element at all except for the rapper. There are no people making music with instuments.

What about the people composing the beat that rapper raps over?

Or in some cases, what about the people playing the instrumets?

YouTube - The Roots - The Next Movement

To me, what makes good music good music is because it comes from people's heart. A machine is NEVER from the heart. A machine has no feeling.

So the people composing the beat can't make a beat from the heart?

 

[feldspar]

Your having a terrible argument is not the same as others dancing around the point.

LOL. Quite true.

What's the point again? It always seems to change. I think the point is that we have no right to put down rap, and if we don't appreciate it for what another person thinks it is, we are ignorant.

Also, there is no truth in art, and that's why we aren't allowed to evaluate it objectively. That's the thing that makes a whole lot of sense...as well as the fact that you can't compare two different things. Who is to say whether it's easier to do a double backflip as opposed to tying your shoelaces?

 

[jays52]

To me, what makes good music good music is because it comes from people's heart.

Tears in Heaven is one of my favorite songs for a reason.

Towards your point on music coming from the heart. Before you say that rap can't come from the heart, really listen to these two songs. It's just eight minutes of your time, and if you don't think it came from the heart then your opinion won't change. I really do think that if you listen to the songs with an open mind, you might change it.

YouTube - Brother Ali - Picket Fence

--and--

YouTube - Brother Ali - Faheem

 

[Satchboogie3]

Yes, the lyrics are great, he's a good poet... but the music isn't his. Even if he did produce it (which most don't), it's just a bunch of samples of OTHER people's music. I have had plenty of 'friends' who did this type of thing (creating beats out of samples for people to rap over) and they loved to think they were musicians, but really they didn't know the first thing about music.

The music in that clip is just so boring, doesn't really mix well, doesn't go anywhere, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I think the guy (Brother Ali) is a great poet... but that's just it. He's a poet, not a musician. Not that it is a big knock on him, that's just not what he does.

 

[feldspar]

Tears in Heaven is one of my favorite songs for a reason.

Towards your point on music coming from the heart. Before you say that rap can't come from the heart, really listen to these two songs. It's just eight minutes of your time, and if you don't think it came from the heart then your opinion won't change. I really do think that if you listen to the songs with an open mind, you might change it.

YouTube - Brother Ali - Picket Fence

--and--

YouTube - Brother Ali - Faheem

Sorry, I'm at a friend's house that has a dial-up connection. Can't listen to those songs right now if I don't want to spend hours doing it.

Also, I have to say again that I never said that I hate all rap. I like some of it. My whole stance is that I generally don't like it and have much more respect for other genres. Rap CAN be entertaining, and I like to play along with it on my guitar sometimes...but...

I didn't really give an ultimatum on rap saying that it can't come from the heart either. I was talking about the machines they often use to create the beat and surrounding music. When that happens, I'm sure that the rapper himself/herself is probably bringing their soul to the rap (or trying to), but I'd be repeating myself if I told you how much less I think that brings to the table as opposed to certain other forms of music.

 

[Satchboogie3]

I think we are trying to argue different points. Rap doesn't bring anything to the table in terms of music. All the "value" it has is derived from the lyrics. That's why I don't really consider rap to be music (even though, yes, I'll admit it is music). Genre's like Jazz derive all of the emotion, etc, from the actual music.

Here's a way to think about it. If a piece of music or song is good, it should be able to stand on its own, without lyrics. If you took away the lyrics from a rap song and just had the beat, it wouldn't be very interesting. That right there is the point. If you take a Billy Joel song and strip away the lyrics, the music will still be interesting. Obviously, with Jazz, everything is the music, there are no lyrics most of the time.

 

[feldspar]

Yes, the lyrics are great, he's a good poet... but the music isn't his. Even if he did produce it (which most don't), it's just a bunch of samples of OTHER people's music. I have had plenty of 'friends' who did this type of thing (creating beats out of samples for people to rap over) and they loved to think they were musicians, but really they didn't know the first thing about music.

The music in that clip is just so boring, doesn't really mix well, doesn't go anywhere, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I think the guy (Brother Ali) is a great poet... but that's just it. He's a poet, not a musician. Not that it is a big knock on him, that's just not what he does.

Pretty easy to understand what you are saying. I happen to agree completely, but if I didn't, it wouldn't be too difficult to understand what you are saying and why you are saying it. "Samples..." what the hell is that? I know what it is, but what the hell is that? It's rapping over someone else's music or a machine's music. That GIGANTIC shortcut alone should give rap a LOT less credence than a group of people that make every sound themselves from scratch. Makes it easier, right? Not all rappers do that, but tons of them do. Rapping over a completely contrived backdrop...that's the worse kind.

 

[glm]

Yes, the lyrics are great, he's a good poet... but the music isn't his. Even if he did produce it (which most don't), it's just a bunch of samples of OTHER people's music.

Have you ever tried sampling?

I have had plenty of 'friends' who did this type of thing (creating beats out of samples for people to rap over) and they loved to think they were musicians, but really they didn't know the first thing about music.

Again, have you ever tried sampling?

The music in that clip is just so boring, doesn't really mix well, doesn't go anywhere, etc.

So you stated your opinon, why?

The fact that you don't like it doesn't help your discussion.

Don't get me wrong, I think the guy (Brother Ali) is a great poet... but that's just it. He's a poet, not a musician. Not that it is a big knock on him, that's just not what he does.

Exactly. Most rappers aren't musicians. So don't you think it's kind of pointless to express your disdain for a genre of music because it doesn't capitalize on your favorite aspect of music.

That would be like me saying Classical music sucks because of its lack of guitar solos.

 

[glm]

Pretty easy to understand what you are saying. I happen to agree completely, but if I didn't, it wouldn't be too difficult to understand what you are saying and why you are saying it. "Samples..." what the hell is that? I know what it is, but what the hell is that? It's rapping over someone else's music or a machine's music. That GIGANTIC shortcut alone should give rap a LOT less credence than a group of people that make every sound themselves from scratch. Makes it easier, right? Not all rappers do that, but tons of them do. Rapping over a completely contrived backdrop...that's the worse kind.

Have you ever tried sampling?

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

That's why I don't really consider rap to be music (even though, yes, I'll admit it is music).

......................

 

[feldspar]

I think we are trying to argue different points. Rap doesn't bring anything to the table in terms of music. All the "value" it has is derived from the lyrics. That's why I don't really consider rap to be music (even though, yes, I'll admit it is music). Genre's like Jazz derive all of the emotion, etc, from the actual music.

Here's a way to think about it. If a piece of music or song is good, it should be able to stand on its own, without lyrics. If you took away the lyrics from a rap song and just had the beat, it wouldn't be very interesting. That right there is the point. If you take a Billy Joel song and strip away the lyrics, the music will still be interesting. Obviously, with Jazz, everything is the music, there are no lyrics most of the time.

Excellent point.

Take away lyrics, and see what's left. Lotsa different points can be made, but this one is crucial. How exactly what's happening musically behind the rapper is another...

 

[feldspar]

Have you ever tried sampling?

I've played along with just about any form of music with my guitar, including a drum machine. You just said that most rappers aren't musicians. YOU said that. I don't think there is any reason for me to argue with you.

 

[Satchboogie3]

Exactly. Most rappers aren't musicians. So don't you think it's kind of pointless to express your disdain for a genre of music because it doesn't capitalize on your favorite aspect of music.

That would be like me saying Classical music sucks because of its lack of guitar solos.

Where do you disagree with what I said, then?
How is saying that rappers aren't musicians anything related to guitar solo's in classical music? A better analogy would be saying that Rap sucks because it's lack of MUSIC.

Also, what does the "difficulty" of sampling have to do with whether or not it is good or worthy music? The point is that these people aren't really creating their own music from scratch, they are taking existing music, that other people created, and sticking it together. They don't even try to reproduce it, they just use the same recording. I think it's disgusting.

Sampling is basically the equivalent of creating a collage out of existing paitings... ie, BS.

Anyways, if you think sampling is difficult, try writing actual music. I'd love to see a "sampler" try to write a classical arrangement for 4 voices, let alone an arrangement for an entire orchestra.

Oh, and I would know, I attended Berklee College of Music. I do know what I'm talking about.

 

[Ice Cold Bruschi]

Cue the idiot white people who lump the good rap with the bad, never listened to good rap or hip hop in their lives, blame the artists for their idiot fans (ever been to any sporting event recently?), or never bothered to listen to the lyrics to the songs (thank you Jay-Z).

Cue racist who act like white people don't know anything about hip hop and all black people are well read connoisseurs on the subject, hip hop these days sucks.

 

[feldspar]

Where do you disagree with what I said, then?
How is saying that rappers aren't musicians anything related to guitar solo's in classical music? A better analogy would be saying that Rap sucks because it's lack of MUSIC.

Also, what does the "difficulty" of sampling have to do with whether or not it is good or worthy music? The point is that these people aren't really creating their own music from scratch, they are taking existing music, that other people created, and sticking it together. They don't even try to reproduce it, they just use the same recording. I think it's disgusting.

Sampling is basically the equivalent of creating a collage out of existing paitings... ie, BS.

Anyways, if you think sampling is difficult, try writing actual music. I'd love to see a "sampler" try to write a classical arrangement for 4 voices, let alone an arrangement for an entire orchestra.

Oh, and I would know, I attended Berklee College of Music. I do know what I'm talking about.

Slam dunk.

You certainly DO know what you are talking about.