Real World

Smart people always play with the house, cuz in the end, the house never loses.

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"A theory that explains everything, explains nothing"

Real World

If the Marlins had $80 million more, how many do they win by? How about Tampa too? The point is, a have, should not be complaining like a have not. The Sox are in the top 5 in payroll year in, and year out. When they won their WS title, prior to last night, they were the team with the highest payroll ever to win it. The Sox shouldn't be whining about money. The Marlins, KC, Tampa, etc all should.

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"A theory that explains everything, explains nothing"

BradyManny

Get that sh*t outta here, man, this is a Pats board.

I agree with the consensus that this ring would feel hollow considering it was purchased. And yes, I know you could argue the Sox purchased the 2004 World Series, but its not on the same level. I said it at the time, given what the Yanks spent this offseason, anything other than a ring was failure. If I were a Yankee fan today, I would simply loathe myself a little less than I did yesterday, but that's about it.

Kamikaze

Until they fix the way teams spend, the teams that can spend, will spend.

Wildo7

No amount of spin you put on it is going to change the fact that the Yankees have a $65m payroll advantage over every other team. No they aren't gonna win every year, just more than every other team. To say that that isn't the primary factor in their championships is a joke.

Your argument is like giving a team corked bats and steroids, then just giving every other team regular bats and no steroids and pointing to the championships they didn't win as evidence that somehow the steroids and corked bats don't matter. It's a fvcking joke that in any other sport would be laughable but for some reason the Yankees PR machine has been able to delude their fans into thinking that your argument makes sense because other teams have the second and third highest payrolls. If they were bound by the restraints of every other team, they wouldn't have been able to grab A Rod, Tex, CC and Burnett and co. and put them all on the same team and wouldn't be hoisting yet another trophy. It's pretty obvious to anyone with a brain.

The Yankees don't have a great GM, they don't have exceptional homegrown talent, but what they do have is the ability to grab any FA they want and that's why they win. So enjoy your artificial championship, Steinbrenner's paychecks earned it.

You point to the Sox fans as being hypocritical because they are in the second tier of teams that have payroll advantage over most other teams, which I agree is BS too. But if there was a salary cap do you really think the Sox would have to spend that much to try nd compete with the Yankees? If the Yankees weren't in their division with a huge advantage every year are you really telling me the Sox wouldn't have more championships? It's such laughable logic to try and wash away an enormously unfair competitive advantage by saying that because other teams spend more than the rest they have no right to point out the obvious.

BradyManny

Pertinent link:

2009 MLB team payrolls | GetListy!!!

Its not a question of haves and have-nots anymore. Half the MLB spends over $80 now, and a third of it spends over $100. There are some teams that simply do not spend, but it is no longer a huge gap between the Sox & other teams. The fact of the matter is the Yankees have a $90 milli advantage over the Sox, and in another thread, I said that's akin to about 5-7 All Star players (Derek Jeter (21 Mill) + Mark Teixeira (20 mill) + CC Sabathia (15 mil) + Johnny Damon (13 mil) + Mariano Rivera (15 mil) + Robinson Cano (6 mil) to be exact).

5 years ago, MAYBE it would've been hypocritical for Sox fans to complain about Yankee spending (still, I'd argue the gap was so wide its still an unfair advantage). But NOW, the gap in spending across MLB has narrowed, and the playing field is leveling - except for ONE team, the New York Yankees.

Siddiqi

I know, the 2009 Yanks will never touch the 2004 Sox in regards to homegrown talent they had when they won with Manny, Ortiz, Pedro, Bellhorn, Schilling, Damon, Mientkievitz, O. Cabrera, Varitek, Lowe, Foulke, Roberts, and Mueller. I mean the Sox drafted and developed all those guys and straight from their farm, not a single trade or FA signing in sight right there.

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There is only the improbable, nothing is impossible

Wildo7

If they didn't have a lot of money they would probably just be an average team too. Given that their current approach to team building is geared around keeping up with a Yankees team $80m ahead of them, they have to get whatever FAs they can if they want to stand a chance.

Siddiqi

Ah, yes the poor Red Sox, just trying to keep up with the big evil Yankees, of course they would cut payroll if they could, but darnit they just can't because of the big bad Yankees. The Sox, Yanks, and all other MLB teams that are serious spend money to make money, if any of them cut payroll they wouldn't pass on the savings to us, they would pocket it. The Yanks and the Sox are no different, they are business enterprises aimed at making money and lots of it. Regardless of what Hal and Hank and John Henry say to us, we're all just big walking dollar signs to them, I honestly doubt they give a damn about fans aside from the income we spend there. In a sense you're right the Yanks did buy a championship, but so did every other team that has won the WS, I mean the players aren't playing for free, its naive and stupid to think that well when the Sox won a championship they did it "right way" and I know that you're not naive and stupid Wildo, so let us just rub it in and when the Sox win sometime in the future, feel free to rub it in while us Yankee fans make up some lame excuse about how the Sox were lucky that year, but don't go down to the level about money and championships, because EVERYONE is spending money on contenders.

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There is only the improbable, nothing is impossible

Wildo7

There's a lot of straw man in here. I never said anything about the Red Sox wanting to cut payroll (though I'm sure they would), and I certainly have no doubts about the ownership of any teams attitude towards the fans and making money. I never said the Red sox won it the "right way" or that other teams don't spend money. They do. But the bottom line remains that the Yankees spend more money than every single other team and have an advantage over every single team, hence the championships. The Red Sox have an advantage over many teams too, and that's unfair also, but they don't have an advantage over all the teams and they certainly don't have the kind of advantage the Yankees do.

Saying "all teams spend money" is silly, of course they do, but the point is that none of them spend as much as the Yankees who have a considerable lead on all the other teams when it comes to the ability to put the best team on the field. Yankees fans think everyone should just ignore this absurd advantage they have by putting forward sloppy arguments about "everyone spending" and how the 2-6 teams can't complain because they spend so much more than the lower teams. When you don't have a salary cap obviously it's not going to be fair for anyone, and other than fluke years it's not at all surprising that the team with the biggest advantage is going to win more than the others.

I'm a Sox fan, and I recognize that with respect to us v. the Twins it's not at all fair, which is why we win more than them, and surprise, surprise the Yankees have about a 100% payroll edge on the average of the league and have dominated accordingly. Put $200m in one team, $120 in another, $70m in the next and $30m in another and see what the results generally are. It would be almost hard for the Yankees not to win WS titles frequently spending that much money compared to the rest of the league. When the Yankees win all it means is that they have better players because they spend more. When the Sox win it means they have more money than teams that spent less and they spent more wisely than the Yankees and maybe 2 or 3 other teams in that given year. What is the point of that? What does that determine. That kind of inevitability is not what I look for in sports.

I just do not get this bizarre logic that Yankees and a lot of Sox fans have succumbed to that says an advantage is only an advantage if it leads to victory every single time. How about I play Holdem with you and start with one Ace every time and then point to the minority of hands you win as evidence that it's fair or that when I win the entire match it's because of reasons other than the fact that I started every single hand with a huge edge. If Yankees fans (and Sox fans) truly feel that these enormous salary discrepancies aren't the biggest factor in their WS titles then they should be the most vocal in calling for a salary cap.