Originally Posted by Kid~Brady

Lol, no like Darius Butler, Pat Chung and Kyle Arrington.....

Originally Posted by KontradictioN

Name me one good starting CB that Ryan actually drafted in his tenure with Jets. (HINT: Revis is not one of them)

Originally Posted by MoLewisrocks

Tannembaum pulls the string on drafts and FA acquisitions and trades in NY. Bill pulls all those strings here. Just as another of his protoges, Ozzie does in Baltimore. Rex has never been more than a technician tasked with making the best of the hand he's dealt - and it worked better within the confines of a defensive system and personnel that were already long in place in Baltimore. All Rex could bring to the table here would be schematic frustration andcap trouble along with the potential to divide a locker room. Kind of like what happened when one of his former charges was brought in here. AD. Who struggled with the reality that on a BB team guys including the DC's who coach them were not allowed to just do what came natural to them or in a former setting... That's also what Pees left here in search of. As did Dom Capers after a brief stopover to catch his breath after bombing out in Miami on Saban's watch.

Originally Posted by AndyJohnson

It a football game there is a winner and a loser.

Originally Posted by AndyJohnson

The winner was successful the loser was not. There is no other reasonable definition for success.

Originally Posted by AndyJohnson

The rest of what you said is useless rhetoric.

Originally Posted by AndyJohnson

A point within my argument was that the Patriot system has had more success than anything Ryan has done.

Originally Posted by AndyJohnson

Well, that wasn't my point, so it can't really be invalidated.

Originally Posted by AndyJohnson

This doesnt make any sense.

Originally Posted by AndyJohnson

How can you possibly say that winning isn't a factor in how good a job any coach does? Its the reason you play. To call it irrelevant is simply wrong.

Originally Posted by Finnishfan

You cannot measure DCs ability to coach a defense by counting his teams' trophies, because that would require you to make ceteris paribus assumption which means that for instance the performance of the offense or the skill levels of the defensive players are meaningless in that equasion.

Originally Posted by Kid~Brady

Probably the same amount that the Patriots have drafted.

How many CBs did BB draft when he was with the Giants?
How many CBs did Rex draft when he was with the Ravens?

You're right, maybe they both suck at it. I just think we could use someone else in here. Rexy was just an option, so is RAC. Shux, maybe Mangini like the other thread proposed, its better than what we currently have.

Originally Posted by Rob0729

The big difference is that Ryan's defensive philosophy is building from the outside in and Belichick's is building from the inside out. Ryan wants a strong defensive backfield which allows him to throw exotic blitzes leaving CBs in single coverage more often. Belichick believes in building in the trenches out. So if Ryan blows a CB pick, it is a bigger deal.

Besides, name the defensive players the Jets have developed into solid starters under Ryan. All their best players were/are veterans who he either inherited from the Mangini regime or acquired in free agency or trades. The only one I can think of is Wilkerson and he is a good, not great player. If one of Patricia's biggest knocks is that he is unable to develop d-back talent, what makes anyone positive that Ryan can be any more successful based on his track record?

Originally Posted by Rob0729

The big difference is that Ryan's defensive philosophy is building from the outside in and Belichick's is building from the inside out. Ryan wants a strong defensive backfield which allows him to throw exotic blitzes leaving CBs in single coverage more often. Belichick believes in building in the trenches out. So if Ryan blows a CB pick, it is a bigger deal.

Originally Posted by Finnishfan

Ok lets do this breakdown thing you seem to like.



Correction, there are 60+ winners and losers, DC is just one of them. Unless you want to claim here that DC = The entire team.



Are you the official owner of english language, becouse I just brought you 3 different OFFICIAL definitions for the word success and you argue that no other definition is legit.

Just say if you own the language and I call Merriam-Webster immidiately and have them remove all those false definitions.



You used different interpretation of the word than him, there is nothing rhetoric about saying that.



Again, yes, you are correct, with the definition of success you have. But it's far far far away from an ultimate truth.



(see what I did there, I made you answer to yourself)


I didn't say that winning isnt a factor. I said that you cannot measure DCs skills by counting his TEAMS trophies. Note the uppercase word there. That goes hand in hand with my first point, which is an undeniable fact.

A decent DC can have great players on his unit and a great offense to support him, which means that he beats stellar DC with crappy players and poor offense propably 9 times out of 10.

Example: We are currently 9th in this league. Does this mean that Matt Patricia is the 9th best DC in the league?

Just in case you dont remember, here is the comment again:



I cannot get my head around the fact that you fail to see the flaws in your logic. Wins and titles are good evidence, but not a way to measure individual coaches (except HCs).

Originally Posted by Snake Eyes

Is that Ryan's philosophy or is he just playing to the Jets strengths?

Originally Posted by Rob0729

Hard to tell because he had a strong secondary in Baltimore too with guys like Ed Reed, Chris McAllister, Samari Rolle, and Dawan Landry (at least for a short time). I would say it had more to do with the philosophy since he went hard after Asomugha, paid Cromartie big bucks to be CB #2, and drafted Wilson in the first round when he had more pressing needs.