Talking TEs - 2014 Draft

[midwestpatsfan]

I started a thread with my thoughts on Tight End, but was told about this thread that seemed to be getting a much better conversation going, so I thought I would repost my thoughts on here. Sorry for the repost for those who happened to see my thread on it. Just one man's observations on the position.


​

Tight End Rankings and Evaluations:​

#1. Eric Ebron, UNC:
Positives: Great size and speed for the position. A matchup nightmare. Can lineup on the line or split out wide. Very good blocker. Has large catch radius and presents a big target for QB.
Negatives: Needs to be more physical and learn to use his size to his advantage more. Lack of focus led to some easy drops. Lacks aggressiveness in his route running and catching in traffic.
#2. Jace Amaro, Texas Tech:
Positives: Tall, smooth, fluid route runner. Elite hands and speed to outrun defenders. An oversized WR that creates mismatches in passing game. Tough and willing to run routes over the middle and fight for the ball.
Negatives: Needs to add bulk to his frame. He needs to work on his blocking skills. Reports of some immaturity and attitude problems could be an issue.
#3. Colt Lyerla, Oregon:
Positives: Physical freak. Runs good routes and is clean in and out of breaks. Agile for a guy his size. Above average blocker who plays with a bit of a mean streak. Soft hands, large catch radius and creates a big target for his QB. Plays with attitude and toughness.
Negatives: Won’t be drafted as the #3 TE because of huge off field concerns that most who follow the draft already know about. Drugs, leaving school, not going to rehab and tough upbringing may lead to him getting drafted much later (if at all) than his on field talent would dictate. On the field, his attitude can be a negative as well when things aren’t going well. Has to learn to control his emotions better and keep his focus on the game.
#4. Austin Sefaran Jenkins, Washington:
Positives: Impressive size, soft hands, creates a big target. Agile for a guy his size. Large catch radius and a fluid route runner. Good acceleration.
Negatives: Inconsistent blocker (high sometimes, waist bender others) but did improve this last year. Not as physical as I would like for a guy with his size. Lacks top end speed.
#5. Troy Niklas, Notre Dame:
Positives: Dominating blocker, good size and athleticism. Soft hands, physical guy who can make tough catches in traffic.
Negatives: Route running needs work, was used on a limited basis in the passing game, but the tools seem to be there. Needs to continue to develop proper technique when running routes. Does not possess top end speed. Concussions are a concern
#6. C.J. Fiedorowicz, Iowa:
Positives: Good size, creates a big target. Great in line blocker and can get out in space and block as well. Reliable hands and makes tough plays in traffic. Tough, blue collar type of TE.
Negatives: Won’t wow you with athleticism or speed. Limited in his route running and rounds off his routes. A less athletic version of ASJ offensively and Niklas defensively.
#7. Xavier Grimble, USC
Positives: Good size for the position. Good blocker, squares up with defender and keeps contain. Good in and out of cuts. Can lineup on the line or out wide. Soft hands. Lots of upside potential.
Negatives: Multiple injuries are the big concern. Lacks elite speed and athleticism. Will need to work on route running.
#8. Richard Rogers, Cal.
Positives: Good burst off the line. Athletic frame, good hands, can make the tough catches in traffic. Good straight line speed, can create separation. Decent blocker who uses his athleticism to get to the next level when blocking on screens and quick throws.
Negatives: Does not have ideal build for a TE. Lacks bulk. More of a WR type. Blocking needs to continue to improve to be successful at the next level. Concentration could be an issue as he had his fair share of easy drops. Route tree was limited in his college scheme.
#9. Crockett Gilmore, Colorado St.
Positives: Good size with room to get bigger. Great blocker who blocks through the whistle. Like another Olineman. Soft hands and can make catches in traffic. Uses size to his advantage. Has upside.
Negatives: Not a great athlete. Lacks speed and burst to get off the line. Stiff in his routes, more of a plodder. Lacks ability to get separation on routes.
#10. Marcel Jensen, Fresno St.
Positives: Long arms, huge hands, large catch radius. Soft hands. Big upper body and uses it well to shield off defenders. Smooth running routes. Big target who was under used in college.
Negatives: inconsistent as a blocker. Needs to get his lower body stronger. A bit top heavy giving him balance issues both in the blocking game and his route running. Can get knocked down by smaller defenders when running routes.
Just missed:
A.C. Leonard, Tennessee State
Arthur Lynch, Georgia
Jo Don Duncan, Dixie St.
Jacob Peterson, Wisconsin
Rob Blanchflower, Umass

 

[mayoclinic]

I started a thread with my thoughts on Tight End, but was told about this thread that seemed to be getting a much better conversation going, so I thought I would repost my thoughts on here. Sorry for the repost for those who happened to see my thread on it. Just one man's observations on the position.


​

Tight End Rankings and Evaluations:​

#1. Eric Ebron, UNC:
Positives: Great size and speed for the position. A matchup nightmare. Can lineup on the line or split out wide. Very good blocker. Has large catch radius and presents a big target for QB.
Negatives: Needs to be more physical and learn to use his size to his advantage more. Lack of focus led to some easy drops. Lacks aggressiveness in his route running and catching in traffic.
#2. Jace Amaro, Texas Tech:
Positives: Tall, smooth, fluid route runner. Elite hands and speed to outrun defenders. An oversized WR that creates mismatches in passing game. Tough and willing to run routes over the middle and fight for the ball.
Negatives: Needs to add bulk to his frame. He needs to work on his blocking skills. Reports of some immaturity and attitude problems could be an issue.
#3. Colt Lyerla, Oregon:
Positives: Physical freak. Runs good routes and is clean in and out of breaks. Agile for a guy his size. Above average blocker who plays with a bit of a mean streak. Soft hands, large catch radius and creates a big target for his QB. Plays with attitude and toughness.
Negatives: Won’t be drafted as the #3 TE because of huge off field concerns that most who follow the draft already know about. Drugs, leaving school, not going to rehab and tough upbringing may lead to him getting drafted much later (if at all) than his on field talent would dictate. On the field, his attitude can be a negative as well when things aren’t going well. Has to learn to control his emotions better and keep his focus on the game.
#4. Austin Sefaran Jenkins, Washington:
Positives: Impressive size, soft hands, creates a big target. Agile for a guy his size. Large catch radius and a fluid route runner. Good acceleration.
Negatives: Inconsistent blocker (high sometimes, waist bender others) but did improve this last year. Not as physical as I would like for a guy with his size. Lacks top end speed.
#5. Troy Niklas, Notre Dame:
Positives: Dominating blocker, good size and athleticism. Soft hands, physical guy who can make tough catches in traffic.
Negatives: Route running needs work, was used on a limited basis in the passing game, but the tools seem to be there. Needs to continue to develop proper technique when running routes. Does not possess top end speed. Concussions are a concern
#6. C.J. Fiedorowicz, Iowa:
Positives: Good size, creates a big target. Great in line blocker and can get out in space and block as well. Reliable hands and makes tough plays in traffic. Tough, blue collar type of TE.
Negatives: Won’t wow you with athleticism or speed. Limited in his route running and rounds off his routes. A less athletic version of ASJ offensively and Niklas defensively.
#7. Xavier Grimble, USC
Positives: Good size for the position. Good blocker, squares up with defender and keeps contain. Good in and out of cuts. Can lineup on the line or out wide. Soft hands. Lots of upside potential.
Negatives: Multiple injuries are the big concern. Lacks elite speed and athleticism. Will need to work on route running.
#8. Richard Rogers, Cal.
Positives: Good burst off the line. Athletic frame, good hands, can make the tough catches in traffic. Good straight line speed, can create separation. Decent blocker who uses his athleticism to get to the next level when blocking on screens and quick throws.
Negatives: Does not have ideal build for a TE. Lacks bulk. More of a WR type. Blocking needs to continue to improve to be successful at the next level. Concentration could be an issue as he had his fair share of easy drops. Route tree was limited in his college scheme.
#9. Crockett Gilmore, Colorado St.
Positives: Good size with room to get bigger. Great blocker who blocks through the whistle. Like another Olineman. Soft hands and can make catches in traffic. Uses size to his advantage. Has upside.
Negatives: Not a great athlete. Lacks speed and burst to get off the line. Stiff in his routes, more of a plodder. Lacks ability to get separation on routes.
#10. Marcel Jensen, Fresno St.
Positives: Long arms, huge hands, large catch radius. Soft hands. Big upper body and uses it well to shield off defenders. Smooth running routes. Big target who was under used in college.
Negatives: inconsistent as a blocker. Needs to get his lower body stronger. A bit top heavy giving him balance issues both in the blocking game and his route running. Can get knocked down by smaller defenders when running routes.
Just missed:
A.C. Leonard, Tennessee State
Arthur Lynch, Georgia
Jo Don Duncan, Dixie St.
Jacob Peterson, Wisconsin
Rob Blanchflower, Umass

A lot of work went into this. Good job.

I've discussed my personal opinions ad nauseum, but for a quick summary:

1. I think Jace Amaro is a glorified slot receiver who benefitted from his college system. I think Richard Rodgers has more versatility, better YAC, and is a much better value. I think Rodgers is actually good value compared even to Eric Ebron, who has the most freakish athleticism of any TE in this draft but who's hands are suspect.

2. Colt Lyerla may be the best TE prospect in the draft from the neck down, but unfortunately the head is not detachable. Besides the personal issues, his productivity has never matched his talent. I think you rate him way too highly.

3. I think that ASJ and Troy Niklas are the only 2 in-line TEs of interest in this draft. ASJ is more "NFL ready", runs a more complete route tree, and has the best hands of any TE prospect in the draft. He's not very explosive, however, and has limited YAC; he's a good prospect, but by no means "another Gronk". Troy Niklas has a concussion history and is more raw than ASJ, but has more explosiveness and better YAC. There is disagreement as to how good a blocker ASJ is compared to Niklas - I think Niklas will end up being the best blocking TE out of this draft if the concussion issue is not a problem.

4. I think CJ Fiedorowicz is a late round prospect.

5. I think that after Richard Rodgers, Xavier Grimble is one of the more intriguing prospects currently rated a day 3 pick.

Just my 2 cents. Thanks for re-posting this - I personally find it much easier to respond within the context of the previous discussion of the TE position.

 

[kennyb]

Oops made a duplicate post

 

[captain stone]

I think it more likely that Niklas will be taken a "full round" ahead of ASJ.

Don't you mean a full round after ASJ?

Edit: Or do you mean that there's a better chance that Nicklas would be drafted a full round ahead of ASJ
than there is of Nicklas being drafted a full round after ASJ?
As I see it right now, ASJ will be taken ahead of Nicklas; it could be one pick ahead of him, or it could be
21 picks ahead of him, starting somewhere from the late 1st round to the mid 2nd round.

 

[mayoclinic]

Don't you mean a full round after ASJ?

No, I'm pretty sure he meant what he said. I disagree, but it's possible. Some people have Niklas rated ahead of ASJ based on perceived upside (I think Rob Rang has Niklas rated higher on his big board, for example). That's why I said that if they were close I would take ASJ (more versatile, better hands, more NFL-ready) but if Niklas was a full round later I would take Niklas (potential, more explosive, better YAC).

 

[manxman2601]

Don't you mean a full round after ASJ?

Edit: Or do you mean that there's a better chance that Nicklas would be drafted a full round ahead of ASJ
than there is of Nicklas being drafted a full round after ASJ?
As I see it right now, ASJ will be taken ahead of Nicklas; it could be one pick ahead of him, or it could be
21 picks ahead of him, starting somewhere from the late 1st round to the mid 2nd round.

Whether it's a full round or not, I'm starting to think that Niklas will be taken ahead of ASJ. ASJ will have to run very well to avoid that I suspect.

 

[mayoclinic]

Combine weigh results for the TEs:

2014 NFL Combine measurement results: Tight end - Big Cat Country

 

[SalemPats]

I've been watching film of Austin Seferian-Jenkins and I think he would do great with us in that Aaron Hernandez type role, especially as a compliment to Gronk

 

[mayoclinic]

I've been watching film of Austin Seferian-Jenkins and I think he would do great with us in that Aaron Hernandez type role, especially as a compliment to Gronk

ASJ is very versatile and can run the whole route tree, but I really don't see him as a "move TE". Can you explain further?

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Combine weigh results for the TEs:

2014 NFL Combine measurement results: Tight end - Big Cat Country

No hand sizes

 

[mayoclinic]

No hand sizes

Here's a spreadsheet from Steeler's Depot with the hand sizes listed (it wasn't up earlier):

2014 NFL Combine Results: Tight Ends | Steelers Depot

 

[manxman2601]

Here's a spreadsheet from Steeler's Depot with the hand sizes listed (it wasn't up earlier):

2014 NFL Combine Results: Tight Ends | Steelers Depot

Marcel Jensen has near 35" arms. If they're looking for a backup inline guy, then he's a good option. Fiedorowicz and Grimble measure fairly well too.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Here's a spreadsheet from Steeler's Depot with the hand sizes listed (it wasn't up earlier):

2014 NFL Combine Results: Tight Ends | Steelers Depot

Nine inch hands for Amaro :nono:

 

[manxman2601]

Glad to see that ASJ met with McDaniels. Doesn't mean too much pre free agency but it suggests that they might be considering a TE early. History suggests that if they meet with a lot of guys from one position, they're drafting that position.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Nick Underhill @Nick_Underhill
Amaro called New England an “ideal place” for him.

Well, at least he passed the "Pats Wonderlic."

 

[ripatsfan91]

Nine inch hands for Amaro :nono:

Jordan Cameron's hands are 9.25. Obviously it would be better if Amaro had bigger hands, but I would put more value in the kid's other measurables and 3 cone, broad jump, and vertical.

 

[Kontradiction]

Jordan Cameron's hands are 9.25. Obviously it would be better if Amaro had bigger hands, but I would put more value in the kid's other measurables and 3 cone, broad jump, and vertical.

Just say no to Amaro. While you're at it, say yes to ASJ.

 

[mayoclinic]

Jordan Cameron's hands are 9.25. Obviously it would be better if Amaro had bigger hands, but I would put more value in the kid's other measurables and 3 cone, broad jump, and vertical.

Josh Norris was quick to point out that Amaro at a 7% drop rate with his 9" hand. Eric Ebron had 10" hands but an 11% drop rate.

 

[ripatsfan91]

Just say no to Amaro. While you're at it, say yes to ASJ.

I would be very happy with ASJ! He is a more complete TE and I actually like ASJ's receiving ability better. I am trying to picture an offense with ASJ, Gronk, Dobson and Edelman. That's a pretty massive offense.:rocker:

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Jordan Cameron's hands are 9.25. Obviously it would be better if Amaro had bigger hands, but I would put more value in the kid's other measurables and 3 cone, broad jump, and vertical.

Jordan Cameron and his half season of good play is the exception to the rule? Look, no one said he's going to suck because he has small hands, but in no way is it a good thing. That's all.

Josh Norris was quick to point out that Amaro at a 7% drop rate with his 9" hand. Eric Ebron had 10" hands but an 11% drop rate.

Drop rate is subjected to a lot of variance in the NFL, I can only imagine college exacerbates it. It's not useless but don't put too much stock in it.