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Samuel won't report to minicamp; vows to holdout until week 10


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1. The guy is a jerk for not going to Marquise Hill's funeral with the team.Thta should not have been about money.

2. NO team will trade a first round draft pick for this guy. A second is the best they will get.

3. He is a goo/very good CB certainly NOT a great CB and shold not be paid like that.

4. Patriots need to hold firm on this one after the Branch situation.

5. Let him hold out...and refranchise him again next year.
Cousin, I like #4 and #5. What are we all thinking here. Get something for the little SOB now or lose him for nada (o.k. a comp pick)? Trade him for Newman or Winfield and perhaps a 2 or 3 and that works. Winfield out tackles him by 50% more.
Lets send a message to the greedy agents and players. Refranchise him next year and that is $15m Mr. Brilliant Samuel that you flushed. If he wants to teach the Pats a lesson, turn around fair play, IMO. It cost the Pats nothing and sets up a very strong message for future kilyoni-busters.

Best bet though is trade him today, not the first of Sept. Having him come back for the playoffs as a rent-a-player weak move. He wins (with less spending cash). Like Assante says, there are teams that will pay him....Show me son!
DW Toys
 
7.79 mil is sweet, but also didn't BLY get 5 years for 33 mil? so why not tender Samuel 3 years for 22 mil? more than Bly and close to clements money? JMO...

I think the Patriots would be wise to do this deal, but it doesn't matter: Asante wants much more than this. Maybe if we guaranteed nearly the entire amount he would consider, but it would represent a major change in his negotiating position (and it would be foolish of us to guarantee the entire amount, especially with a player so motivated by money that he only gives his all in contract years).
 
Re: poor samuel, he feels mistreated..wont report

Douche bag, Assante. Honestly, he is a great player to lose for that long but his hugely inflated ego means he needs to hold out. You know, money isnt going to make people respect you. 7 million is a lot. Most people in the world just want enough money to get by...

Whats so great about him coming back in Week 10. If he doesnt work out like he normally would and hadnt practiced for months then he will be very rusty. Maybe he would step up in the playoffs. But we cant go through this for an entire season. The Deion situation was bad enough for a few months.
 
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That's what so many said about Branch - he'll never hold out, we have all the leverage, who needs him anyway...

As I posted in the other thread, I'd be very happy with a Branch-type deal for Asante.

But we need to recognize that the leverage in this situation is fundamentally different.

1. The salary that Branch gave up to hold out was a small fraction of his market value. Asante would be giving up paychecks that are probably more than he could get in any long term deal.

2. Branch was a consistent performer for the Patriots. If he sat out most of a season, it would not materially impact how other teams viewed his talent (meaning it would not have a big negative impact on his next contract). Asante has only had one great year after three mediocre seasons. He NEEDS another great campaign to convince would-be suitors that he is worth the big money he is asking for. Sitting on his butt won't convince anyone.
 
I'm still trying to figure out what is so bad about Samuel coming back in week 10 and being up to snuff for the playoffs. I don't think the Patriots need Samuel to make it into the playoffs and it's unclear how critical he would be in order to get one of the top 2 seeds. But I think there's a significant advantage of having a top corner come in at week 10 and strengthen the team. Is this so crazy a way to view it?
No, it is a great thought. A welcome addition to the shadow roster.

The Pats ensure Samuel doesn't get hurt early in the season (we have had troubles with DBs gettng injured), and they get his services for the stretch run and the playoffs. AND they do it for $3 mil instead of $8 AND they get a $5 mil credit on next year's cap.

WOW!!!!!

Samuel gets what he wants, too. He gets to not play for the first ten games. Not sure how this benefits him, but that is what he says he wants.

Anyway, he does super in the playoffs and gets a gi-gundo contract, while helping the Pats get ring #4.
 
No, it is a great thought. A welcome addition to the shadow roster.

The Pats ensure Samuel doesn't get hurt early in the season (we have had troubles with DBs gettng injured), and they get his services for the stretch run and the playoffs. AND they do it for $3 mil instead of $8 AND they get a $5 mil credit on next year's cap.

WOW!!!!!

Samuel gets what he wants, too. He gets to not play for the first ten games. Not sure how this benefits him, but that is what he says he wants.

Anyway, he does super in the playoffs and gets a gi-gundo contract, while helping the Pats get ring #4.

And as someone said, we can just pretend he strained his dread locks
or something and will be out for the first nine games. Then we won't think about it and it will be a boost when comes back. I like it.:D
 
http://patriots.bostonherald.com/patriots/view.bg?articleid=1004881

The Herald confirms that he didn't attend Hill's funeral.

Asante Samuel [stats] did not join his Patriots [team stats] teammates at Marquise Hill’s wake Friday in New Orleans, nor did he attend the funeral, according to several people who were at the services.

“If it happens, it happens. If he don’t come, we have to move on,” Vince Wilfork [stats] said. “The Patriots, Bill (Belichick) have a team to run. As teammates, we have to get together and communicate and see where we are. If he comes, or don’t come - I would love to have him here - but, by the same token, if he don’t come, we have to move on. We can’t cry over spilled milk.”

Wilfork claimed Samuel was the furthest thing from everyone’s mind.

It’s a business. The NFL is a big business. You see people come and go all the time. So you just can’t focus on one person. It’s not an individual sport. It’s all of us,” he said. “That whole situation, I could care less what the situation is. If he’s here, or not here, we have to move on as a ballclub. Point blank. Games are won now. You put your time and effort in now, through minicamp, training camp, passing camp . . . all the puzzle has to come together now before the season comes around.”

Said Rosevelt Colvin: “Asante, if he’s not here, he can’t do anything for us. The guys who have the opportunity to step up and play have to do that.”

Hmm some very intersting comments from some of his teammates.
I'm a little disappointed that he didn't show up for Marquis Hill's wake or the Funeral. I guess he had his reasons.
 
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Let his ass rot for 10 weeks if need be. Time to take a stand against this type of garbage.
 
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Let his ass rot for 10 weeks if need be. Time to take a stand against this type of garbage.

Its Asante's right to sit out if he wants to, just as its the Patriots right to franchise him instead of letting him be a FA. Both sides are playing the game right now. I don't see the need to be upset with him about it. I would rather have him in camp but theres a reason why they can hold out until week 10 and its leverage.
 
I'm tired of worrying about the Samuel situation. If we can keep him at a reasonable price then great...if not, then so long!
 
Dont count out the possibility of reaching a deal with the man. As history shows patriots aren't predicatable at all..one season why dont sign big names, and spend no money and let key players walk..the next we sign elite players..who says we dont hold on to Samuel.

His actions def. would put a huge dent in any possibility of returning..but who knows..I just know I wish some of these players would keep their mouths shut about holding out or deamanding trades and keep all the talk where it bleongs..during meetings and negotiations. I'd love to know what hes asking for also...at this point its hard to judge who is the reasonable one and who isn't. With that said.. I have to admit Asante is a ballhawk especially when the ball is in the air and I really dont believe we have a corner who can fill HIS shoes*, but we have solid/good corners who are more than capable of being part of this move as one unit defense and making good smart plays.

* Not that his shoes are hard to fill, but I am not going to deny the mans talents because of the situation. He isnt an elite corner but hes gooood player.
 
Bye Asante, its been nice knowing you.
 
I would rather have him in camp but theres a reason why they can hold out until week 10 and its leverage.
Can you explain where the leverage is? What can he accomplish by holding out of the first 10 games? Absolutely nothing.

He can avoid training camp and who cares? That's one of the bennies of being franchised. If you don't sign the tag until September, you can skip traingi camp.

When September rolls around and it's time to play football, it's time to sign and play.

There is absolutely nothing to be affected or influenced in any way by missing the first ten games. You can't force the team to sign you to a long term dal at that point, it's illegal. You are going to be a FA next year (unless you get tagged again) whether you play and get paid or not.

In fact, I would think holding out might be more likely to get you tagged a second time.

The only sure way to avoid getting tagged two years in a row is what most players do: agree to come to training camp in return for a promise not to be tagged again.

But a franchise player has no leverage in holding out of games. His only leverage is holding out of training camp, and that only until July 15.
 
Why is it that people think that a player can miss all of training camp and 10 weeks of a season (roughly 17 weeks worth of practices and games) and then just show up and be effective?

Not I, which is why I didn't say it. I said he'd be effective for the playoffs.

Sorry, I don't buy it. I think that if Asante holds out and comes back in week 10, that he won't be game ready and he will be WORSE than anyone on the field at the time and that he'd be really lucky to be game ready by the time the play-offs rolled around.

Lucky? He'd had as much time to get ready as they have in training camp. Plus he'd be getting real action in real games. Lucky? I think not. I expect he'd be in very good to great form by that time.
 
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I rather be disrespected at his one year offer than be respected at my life time offer.
 
Not I, which is why I didn't say it. I said he'd be effective for the playoffs.



Lucky? He'd had as much time to get ready as they have in training camp. Plus he'd be getting real action in real games. Lucky? I think not. I expect he'd be in very good to great form by that time.

Truthseeker - To my knowledge, no player who has held out into the season has been able to come in and be successful. Most have gotten hurt because they are not in game shape. So, if you know of a player who has been successful during the season, after holding out, please let everyone know.
 
Truthseeker - To my knowledge, no player who has held out into the season has been able to come in and be successful. Most have gotten hurt because they are not in game shape. So, if you know of a player who has been successful during the season, after holding out, please let everyone know.

Emmitt Smith.
 
Truthseeker - To my knowledge, no player who has held out into the season has been able to come in and be successful. Most have gotten hurt because they are not in game shape. So, if you know of a player who has been successful during the season, after holding out, please let everyone know.
Tedy Bruschi

Every player on PUP misses training camp, and some come back to play in the middle of the season and are successful. Here is one: Tedy Bruschi missed training camp and the first weeks of the season and came in mid-season and was very effective.

Not just PUP, either. Players have been cut in March, missed training camp, missed the first part of the season, and have been signed to DIFFERENT TEAMS and have come in cold and been effective with a new team without benefit of even having training camp to learn the playbook.

Players sometimes miss huge chunks of the season, and pick up life they never left off. Ted Washington missed the middle of the season, 8 or 9 games, and came back in like he never left.

So stop with the Asante will suck if he misses camp and a couple of games. He will be fine.
 
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I think the Patriots would be wise to do this deal, but it doesn't matter: Asante wants much more than this. Maybe if we guaranteed nearly the entire amount he would consider, but it would represent a major change in his negotiating position (and it would be foolish of us to guarantee the entire amount, especially with a player so motivated by money that he only gives his all in contract years).
----

As I posted in the other thread, I'd be very happy with a Branch-type deal for Asante.

But we need to recognize that the leverage in this situation is fundamentally different.

1. The salary that Branch gave up to hold out was a small fraction of his market value. Asante would be giving up paychecks that are probably more than he could get in any long term deal.

2. Branch was a consistent performer for the Patriots. If he sat out most of a season, it would not materially impact how other teams viewed his talent (meaning it would not have a big negative impact on his next contract). Asante has only had one great year after three mediocre seasons. He NEEDS another great campaign to convince would-be suitors that he is worth the big money he is asking for. Sitting on his butt won't convince anyone.

That's close to the deal they offered Branch, which is what he in fact held out on over and above being fined up the kazoo...

No way he gets less then double digit millions in signing bonus alone (plus more in guarantees) in a long term deal. He's not stupid, a jerk maybe as recent days unfold, but not stupid - that is what he's holding out over. The difference between the tag and the signing, option and roster bonuses and guaranteed money in a long term deal. Duh...

And I don't know why you persist in insulting his work ethic, which BB lauds, or Belioli's intelligence since they wouldn't offer a $6M per long term deal (which likely includes a double digit signing/option bonus and guarantees at minimum) or a $7.8M guaranteed 2007 salary to a guy they feel only gives his all in contract seasons.

Branch was a consistent performer - I guess if you wanted to pay elite money for 50-60 receptions for 700 yards and 4-5 TD's he was. Oddly by late August Bill was apparently ready to do just that. The knock on Deion at the time was he was not nearly as productive or durable as the elite WR he wanted to be compensated like. Never cracked a thousand yards in 4 seasons and missed half of the 2004 season due to injury. Struggled against double coverage. Of course he stepped up on the big stage late in 2004, but so did Asante in 2006. They're kind of like mirror images on offense and defense, only Branch had more aparent significance because of Brady's limited weapons and comfort level with him and the loss of Givens. Still, CB trumps WR on a defensive oriented team like Belichicks.

Look, I don't think Asante Samuel is headed for the HOF. Even the one in Foxboro. Never did. But he's developed into a quality top 15+/- corner and has the capacity to perform like a top ten on an outstanding defense like Belichick assembles. He won't help you much if your bad, which is why he's overpricing himself, but he won't hurt you any if your good. And he's durable. And he knows the system. Perfect fit for a Belichick secondary - good enough. I had him pegged as a $4.5-5M corner - better than say a $3.5M Starks or a $2.5M Townsend but not nearly in the same league as a $9M Bailey. A tweener, which BB likes in more ways than one. And a ballhawk who finally mastered catching the damn thing.

And that's what they apparently had him pegged at last November too, before the ball started flat out chasing him down. Now they think in this market (cap and talent) he's a $6M man. I defer to their judgement. The only problem is, he thought he was that last fall, and now coming off what many mediots crowed was a shoulda been pro bowl season (about like the double digit INT one Ty had in NY the year before) he thinks he's worth $8-9M because he knows Bailey could command $10M++ in the present market.

I don't want them to overpay him. But I also think his value to this team this season, if they can reach a mutual accommodation, exceeds his trade value when we are likely talking about a player who won't impact this team for at least a year or two - if ever.

And what did Deion really net us in trade? A second late first rounder in a year where we traded away our other first for what will likely be a late first in the following year because having two of those didn't represent value in 2007. And who knows what having two let alone 3 of those will represent in 2008. If Belioli got a first for Asante we could be theoretically trading back for another decade because they don't draft for need, they shop the FA market to fill it. They draft for value. And if they don't see any, they trade out.
 
Ever since the "Get Paid" tatoo I am tired of this crap and Asante threatening to hold out. Go right on and do that but the Pats wont budge. So I guess you can just waste one possibly amazing year of his career.
 
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