Raiders willing to trade Asomugha

[Miguel]

I interpret that as final 4 teams cannot trade for a player who, if he had been an UFA, they would not otherwise be able to sign (without having lost a similarly contracted player to FA). The JETS aren't losing any remotely similarly contracted player to FA since all their top tier starters remain under contract beyond 2010. They state the exception is franchise tagged players who can be signed to an offer sheet for the full compensation but not traded for for less...

It does not matter how you or I interpret the CBA. It matters how the NFL and the NFLPA matters. Your PFT link is dated 2/15. This link is dated 2/16

More on the finer points of the "Final Eight Plan" | ProFootballTalk.com

Dan Masonson works for the NFL.

 

[Patjew]

It's a tough choice, but I think I'd take Asomugha. Essentially because, in today's NFL, I'd rather have an elite CB and a decent NT than an elite NT and a decent CB.

Yeah, you're probably right. But Vince is so nice and cuddly...

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Yeah, you're probably right. But Vince is so nice and cuddly...

more substance

 

[MoLewisrocks]

It does not matter how you or I interpret the CBA. It matters how the NFL and the NFLPA matters. Your PFT link is dated 2/15. This link is dated 2/16

More on the finer points of the "Final Eight Plan" | ProFootballTalk.com

Dan Masonson works for the NFL.

I got that. The link I provided was the link PFT referred back to where Masonson supposedly clarified things for Florio...not.

 

[Patjew]

more substance

Ha, keep coming after me. I take it as a compliment. You're pathetic.

 

[PatsChamp88]

The Jest are going to be all over this

 

[furry]

Yeah, you're probably right. But Vince is so nice and cuddly...

Cuddly doesn't help you stop Manning imo, Asomugha does

 

[PatsChamp88]

Cuddly doesn't help you stop Manning imo, Asomugha does

He can sack the QB?!?

 

[furry]

He can sack the QB?!?

You can't seriously think the threat of a VW sack is more likely to put him off his game than Nnamdi shutting down Wayne can you?

It's a passing league these days, I'd much prefer the stronger backfield than the big run stopper.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

You can't seriously think the threat of a VW sack is more likely to put him off his game than Nnamdi shutting down Wayne can you?

It's a passing league these days, I'd much prefer the stronger backfield than the big run stopper.

Only problem with that theory is if you have two guys shuting down two of Manning's best options who are taking up $24M+ in cap space (roughly 25%) you don't likely have anybody capable of shutting down the other 3...or putting sufficient points up for your own team...

At the end of the day it wasn't coverage that killed Manning vs. NO, he threw for 300+ yards, it was pressure causing mistakes. Just enough to disrupt his timing and rhythm with his receivers. NO won a superbowl without a single shutdown corner. They played outstanding situational football and their biggest contributors beyond their own QB and more weapons than the Colts D could account for were a sophomore 2nd round corner who studied film and an UDFA ST player.

 

[emoney_33]

You can't seriously think the threat of a VW sack is more likely to put him off his game than Nnamdi shutting down Wayne can you?

It's a passing league these days, I'd much prefer the stronger backfield than the big run stopper.

Revis didn't seem to throw him off his game, but pressure made him throw a pick-6 in the SB to a CB that is NOT "elite".

People keep saying "it's a passing league" and bring up the Colts. The Colts are 1 team and the ONLY team to be extremely unbalanced with regards to run vs. pass attempts.

If you can't stop the run, you aren't likely to win. If you can't stop the pass, you aren't likely to win. Stopping both of these starts up front. You can't be a good pass defense without a decent front 7. You can be a good pass defense with a decent backfield.

 

[furry]

Only problem with that theory is if you have two guys shuting down two of Manning's best options who are taking up $24M+ in cap space (roughly 25%) you don't likely have anybody capable of shutting down the other 3...or putting sufficient points up for your own team...

At the end of the day it wasn't coverage that killed Manning vs. NO, he threw for 300+ yards, it was pressure causing mistakes. Just enough to disrupt his timing and rhythm with his receivers. NO won a superbowl without a single shutdown corner. They played outstanding situational football and their biggest contributors beyond their own QB and more weapons than the Colts D could account for were a sophomore 2nd round corner who studied film and an UDFA ST player.

I agree you can't put all that cap into corners, and I assume you're talking about the Jets in terms of the 25% and am thankful they can't get both Revis and Asomugha

I find your second point somewhat contradictory, imo he threw for 300yds because they didn't have a shutdown. I'm not saying you need on to beat him, i'm saying it would help a hell of a lot. I agree that pressue makes a real difference but we currently don't have anybody to bring that consistently either. A combination of both is the only way to win well and I believe it's easier to do that with a not so good front three and a great back field that it is with a better front 3/7 and a rubbish backfield. Just my opinion

 

[furry]

Revis didn't seem to throw him off his game, but pressure made him throw a pick-6 in the SB to a CB that is NOT "elite".

People keep saying "it's a passing league" and bring up the Colts. The Colts are 1 team and the ONLY team to be extremely unbalanced with regards to run vs. pass attempts.

If you can't stop the run, you aren't likely to win. If you can't stop the pass, you aren't likely to win. Stopping both of these starts up front. You can't be a good pass defense without a decent front 7. You can be a good pass defense with a decent backfield.

I can't tell you off the top of my head how many times he threw at Revis in the game but I can only remember one big catch against him and even then it wasn't huge. I think as well the pressure you are talking was a lot more to do with the game pressure than sack pressure, it was choke pressure imo.

The colts were just one team that sprung to mind, but i think the whole league is going that way and the games are being called that way by the refs when you look at the pi calls that are littering the league.

I have kind of covered your second point above, and agree but still think the run is easier to stop than the pass. Other than the Baltimore game (which in a way helps my point on Nnamdi over Vince bc he got battered in that game imo) I don't think we were torched on the ground by anybody but when you look at how we were destroyed in the air by some of the junk QB's out there it is clear stopping the pass is our issue. I don't believe simply upgrading the pass rush will solve the problem, we need better coverage as well. You don't get there any QB should be able to pick you to bits, but if you can get there sometimes and still get torched because you can't cover anybody you'll still loose

 

[emoney_33]

I can't tell you off the top of my head how many times he threw at Revis in the game but I can only remember one big catch against him and even then it wasn't huge. I think as well the pressure you are talking was a lot more to do with the game pressure than sack pressure, it was choke pressure imo.

The colts were just one team that sprung to mind, but i think the whole league is going that way and the games are being called that way by the refs when you look at the pi calls that are littering the league.

I have kind of covered your second point above, and agree but still think the run is easier to stop than the pass. Other than the Baltimore game (which in a way helps my point on Nnamdi over Vince bc he got battered in that game imo) I don't think we were torched on the ground by anybody but when you look at how we were destroyed in the air by some of the junk QB's out there it is clear stopping the pass is our issue. I don't believe simply upgrading the pass rush will solve the problem, we need better coverage as well. You don't get there any QB should be able to pick you to bits, but if you can get there sometimes and still get torched because you can't cover anybody you'll still loose

Vince was injured and had missed the last 3 games of the season prior to the Ravens debacle.

What "junk" QB's destroyed the Patriots?

When have you ever seen a pass defense that was successful on a team that had poor pass rush? We HAVE seen plenty of times teams with a good pass rush have good pass defenses even with decent but not great DBs.

 

[emoney_33]

I find your second point somewhat contradictory, imo he threw for 300yds because they didn't have a shutdown.

The Jets have a shutdown and the #1 pass defense in the NFL in 2009. Peyton threw 377 Yards against them.

I'm not saying you need on to beat him, i'm saying it would help a hell of a lot. I agree that pressue makes a real difference but we currently don't have anybody to bring that consistently either. A combination of both is the only way to win well and I believe it's easier to do that with a not so good front three and a great back field that it is with a better front 3/7 and a rubbish backfield. Just my opinion

A "rubbish" anything is going to fail. But really the back 4 will never be more important to a pass defense than the front 7.

 

[SyN65]

Vince was injured and had missed the last 3 games of the season prior to the Ravens debacle.

What "junk" QB's destroyed the Patriots?

When have you ever seen a pass defense that was successful on a team that had poor pass rush? We HAVE seen plenty of times teams with a good pass rush have good pass defenses even with decent but not great DBs.

I think by "junk QB's" he is referring to the likes of Sanchez (first game), Henne, Fitzpatrick (maybe) and Matt Moore.

I do remember a lot of younger QB's having success against us this year.

 

[furry]

Vince was injured and had missed the last 3 games of the season prior to the Ravens debacle.

What "junk" QB's destroyed the Patriots?

When have you ever seen a pass defense that was successful on a team that had poor pass rush? We HAVE seen plenty of times teams with a good pass rush have good pass defenses even with decent but not great DBs.

We made Henne look like Marino twice, and I think we also made Orton look far better than he was, and that's just for starters. That's all about pressure and coverage, not two down run stopping.

And I agree about your points on the pass rush and that's really what started this wee debate, the suggestion that Vince could / would be a sack threat. I don't think he is, and I'm not convinced for all the taking up space / drawing double teams etc, that for the money we would pay him v the money we would pay Nnamdi I think Asomugha helps the D more than VW.

 

[emoney_33]

I think by "junk QB's" he is referring to the likes of Sanchez (first game), Henne, Fitzpatrick (maybe) and Matt Moore.

I do remember a lot of younger QB's having success against us this year.

Sanchez:
14/22 163 yards 1 TD 0 INT
08/21 136 yards 1 TD 4 INT

Henne:
19/34 219 yards 0 TD 0 INT
29/52 335 yards 2 TD 1 INT

Fitzpatrick:
17/25 178 yards 1 TD 1 INT

Moore:
15/30 197 yards 1 TD 0 INT


I don't see any "destroying" going on...

 

[emoney_33]

...for the money we would pay him v the money we would pay Nnamdi I think Asomugha helps the D more than VW.

I disagree.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

We made Henne look like Marino twice, and I think we also made Orton look far better than he was, and that's just for starters. That's all about pressure and coverage, not two down run stopping.

And I agree about your points on the pass rush and that's really what started this wee debate, the suggestion that Vince could / would be a sack threat. I don't think he is, and I'm not convinced for all the taking up space / drawing double teams etc, that for the money we would pay him v the money we would pay Nnamdi I think Asomugha helps the D more than VW.

No, that's mostly about having little or no film early in the season or when rookie or replacement QB's step in... They don't generally fare as well the second time around regardless of who we're playing at corner...And since when is completing <56% of your passes for 6.4YPA and throwing 2 TD's and 1 pick in two games one of which we won and the other we lost by 1 point remotely making a rookie look like Marino...