Pre-Combine Workouts

[mcmurtry86]

If Mathews can run a sub 4.45 (let alone sub 4.40) at the combine or at his pro day, he will skyrocket up the draft board. Speed is really the biggest question with him, and a great time could get him into the top 15.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

2010 NFL Combine: Players Continue to Prepare 2/16

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Top 5 by Position: Offense – Pre-NFL Combine

Top 5 by Position: Defense – Pre-NFL Combine

 

[dryheat44]

While I agree that Sapp studying is better than clubbing, I'd rather have the guys the Patriots will draft working on football-related skills, not combine-related skills.

Studying playbooks = great. Studying putting fractions in order = not important.

I think you might be missing the overarching theme -- that he's willing to put the work in to improve in an admittedly flawed - if not useless - test. Every prospect knows he's going to have to take the Wonderlic. There's two approaches: try to put yourself in the best position to succeed, or do nothing because it really doesn't mean much in the end.

40 times and 225 numbers don't mean a thing either on the football field, but each player knows he's going to be tested. To not care enough to try to improve these metrics is a fatal character flaw - at least to some NFL evaluators.

No, Sapp is buried on my OLB list for other, purely on-field, reasons. I give him and his agent credit for taking practice tests. Most of us probably took a few practice SATs when we were looking to get into college, and college admissions take them seriously even though they're hardly a reliable measure of intelligence. I guarantee you every player in this draft who played D-1 and wasn't a whiz in the classroom took several practice SATs, at the insistence of their future HC, to be ruled eligible to play in the fall ... I fail to see the difference here.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Vladimir Ducasse, John Skelton among top non-BCS NFL prospects - NFL - SI.com

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

49ers Blog and Q&A: Combine countdown: McClain, Odrick and Spiller

49ers Blog and Q&A: Combine countdown: Thomas, Williams and Williams

49ers Blog and Q&A: Kiper hops on the Spiller bandwagon

49ers Blog and Q&A: Combine countdown: Graham, Iupati and Kindle

49ers Blog and Q&A: Combine questions for potential Niner picks

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Hull ready to prove his worth to scouts | Penn State News | Sports - Centre Daily Times

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Draft: Pre-Combine News and Notes | Combine Results 2010

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Non-AQs to watch as NFL combine nears - College Football Nation Blog - ESPN

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Non-AQs headed to NFL scouting combine - College Football Nation Blog - ESPN

 

[BritPat]

Hull ready to prove his worth to scouts | Penn State News | Sports - Centre Daily Times

So he expects to be 6'3", 240lbs at his Pro-Day? Very interesting. The only Lion LB I've seen a lot of footage on is Bowman, seen very little of Hull.

 

[DaBruinz]

So he expects to be 6'3", 240lbs at his Pro-Day? Very interesting. The only Lion LB I've seen a lot of footage on is Bowman, seen very little of Hull.

I liked what I saw from Hull at the Texas vs. the Nation game. He's good in coverage and is a solid tackler.

 

[iapatsfan]

Eat a box of nails? I need to see him on the field setting the edge for a full 60 minutes.... just can't do that at the Combine/Pro-Day.

I am so sick of hearing this "He can't set the edge" crap about potential pass rushers the Pats could draft. That seems to be the main focus on pre-draft OLBs every year. Why is that the most important thing? For the last 4 years we have watched a team with an inability to get after the QB on a regular basis. If you're a team running a 3-4, that is completely unacceptable. Why do you put more emphasis on "setting the edge" than you do pass rushing ability? It's not that easy to find players that can do both exceptionally, but for once I would like to see us focus on guys that are pure pass rushers. If you ask me, it is easier to coach a player to "set the edge" than it is to make a player an effective pass rusher. For the most part, players either seem to have pass rushing skills, or they don't. You don't see many guys come in the NFL without a rep as a pass rusher and then all of the sudden turn it on, and start pressuring QBs. It requires a suddenness/explosiveness/combination of agility and leverage that players have or they don't. I don't believe you are ever going to take a great "set the edge" player and make him a good pass rusher, while I do think you can teach an explosive pass rusher to "set the edge". In my opinion, pass rushers can be the 2nd most important people on the field next to QBs. It is about time we get one.

 

[PatsCanDoIt]

...If you ask me, it is easier to coach a player to "set the edge" than it is to make a player an effective pass rusher. For the most part, players either seem to have pass rushing skills, or they don't. You don't see many guys come in the NFL without a rep as a pass rusher and then all of the sudden turn it on, and start pressuring QBs. It requires a suddenness/explosiveness/combination of agility and leverage that players have or they don't. I don't believe you are ever going to take a great "set the edge" player and make him a good pass rusher, while I do think you can teach an explosive pass rusher to "set the edge"...

This is a great point. Football players have to learn to use their natural talents. That applies to some positions more than others.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I am so sick of hearing this "He can't set the edge" crap about potential pass rushers the Pats could draft. That seems to be the main focus on pre-draft OLBs every year. Why is that the most important thing? For the last 4 years we have watched a team with an inability to get after the QB on a regular basis. If you're a team running a 3-4, that is completely unacceptable. Why do you put more emphasis on "setting the edge" than you do pass rushing ability? It's not that easy to find players that can do both exceptionally, but for once I would like to see us focus on guys that are pure pass rushers. If you ask me, it is easier to coach a player to "set the edge" than it is to make a player an effective pass rusher. For the most part, players either seem to have pass rushing skills, or they don't. You don't see many guys come in the NFL without a rep as a pass rusher and then all of the sudden turn it on, and start pressuring QBs. It requires a suddenness/explosiveness/combination of agility and leverage that players have or they don't. I don't believe you are ever going to take a great "set the edge" player and make him a good pass rusher, while I do think you can teach an explosive pass rusher to "set the edge". In my opinion, pass rushers can be the 2nd most important people on the field next to QBs. It is about time we get one.

Well, I am waiting for Crable to set the edge...

One of the reasons setting the edge is important is watching RBs scoot for 20+ yards on an off-tackle run - posters in the game threads tend to express consternation when this occurs. It's a core part of BB's 3-4 philosophy to limit the run and make teams one dimensional - which allows those DL and OLB types the freedom to tee off on the QB.

TBC is a draft pick who has struggled with setting the edge, he's shown improvement, but he's no Mike Vrabel or Willie McGinest yet. Rosevelt Colvin struggled with setting the edge, and gradually improved. Your point about drafting a natural pass rusher is valid, but as draftnikkers we shouldn't limit ourselves to one dimensional players. BB can draft all sorts of TBC-like players in the later rounds of this draft, in the top three rounds my preference is for him to find players who have more than one trick.

My two cents.

 

[NePatriots]

I am so sick of hearing this "He can't set the edge" crap about potential pass rushers the Pats could draft. That seems to be the main focus on pre-draft OLBs every year. Why is that the most important thing? For the last 4 years we have watched a team with an inability to get after the QB on a regular basis. If you're a team running a 3-4, that is completely unacceptable. Why do you put more emphasis on "setting the edge" than you do pass rushing ability? It's not that easy to find players that can do both exceptionally, but for once I would like to see us focus on guys that are pure pass rushers. If you ask me, it is easier to coach a player to "set the edge" than it is to make a player an effective pass rusher. For the most part, players either seem to have pass rushing skills, or they don't. You don't see many guys come in the NFL without a rep as a pass rusher and then all of the sudden turn it on, and start pressuring QBs. It requires a suddenness/explosiveness/combination of agility and leverage that players have or they don't. I don't believe you are ever going to take a great "set the edge" player and make him a good pass rusher, while I do think you can teach an explosive pass rusher to "set the edge". In my opinion, pass rushers can be the 2nd most important people on the field next to QBs. It is about time we get one.

While I see the point you're trying to make, it doesn't matter if we can pressure the passer if we give up 8 yards per carry.

BB wants a guy who can do both, and he pays those kind of players. (Rosie, Willie, etc...)

Tully BC was a 7th round pick, and as Box stated he can't stay on the field the whole time due to his struggles at stopping the run. (He is getting much better)

Why would we spend a 1st rounder on the same kind of player? BB wants a 3-down OLB if he is going to pick him in the 1st round.

 

[iapatsfan]

While I see the point you're trying to make, it doesn't matter if we can pressure the passer if we give up 8 yards per carry.

BB wants a guy who can do both, and he pays those kind of players. (Rosie, Willie, etc...)

Tully BC was a 7th round pick, and as Box stated he can't stay on the field the whole time due to his struggles at stopping the run. (He is getting much better)

Why would we spend a 1st rounder on the same kind of player? BB wants a 3-down OLB if he is going to pick him in the 1st round.

Why would we spend a 1st rounder on the same kind of player??? Because I don't think you are going to get the same kind of player in the 1st or 2nd round, that's why. TBC was 7th round player with limited athletic ability, and he still is. Call me crazy, but I think we can get a much more athletically gifted player in the 1st or 2nd round. My point still is the same, I believe you can coach an athletic pass rusher to set the edge easier than coaching a edge setter to rush the passer

This "teams are going to run all over us" stuff is BS as far as I'm concerned. Athletic pass rushers can be coached to stop the run. Pass rushers make other teams uncomfortable, and can change entire offensive game plans. Also, it seems to me, over the course of a season it is much easier to make adjustments and improve your run defense (see Colts Superbowl winning team) than it is to generate pass rush with below avg pass rushers (see Pats of last 4 yrs). 3-4 OLBs do not become feared difference makers because of their ability to set the edge. They are there to create as many negative plays (sacks/incompletions/fumbles) as possible. Against the Vikings did Julius Peppers get Bryant McKinnnie benched, and Favre almost removed from the game, because of his ability to set the edge?? Their athletic ability also allows these players to get in the backfield and disrupt running plays before they develop. Sure, there are going to be times when they are run at and overwhelmed, but the benefit of having explosive players on the edge far outweighs this risk.

"BB wants a 3-down OLB if he is going to pick him in the 1st round"? Sorry, but I would rather take my chances with an explosive pass rusher that may have to be coached up setting the edge than go another season with Crable/Woods/TBC/Ninkovoc as our options at OLB.

 

[captain stone]

I am so sick of hearing this "He can't set the edge" crap about potential pass rushers the Pats could draft. That seems to be the main focus on pre-draft OLBs every year. Why is that the most important thing? For the last 4 years we have watched a team with an inability to get after the QB on a regular basis. If you're a team running a 3-4, that is completely unacceptable. Why do you put more emphasis on "setting the edge" than you do pass rushing ability? It's not that easy to find players that can do both exceptionally, but for once I would like to see us focus on guys that are pure pass rushers. If you ask me, it is easier to coach a player to "set the edge" than it is to make a player an effective pass rusher. For the most part, players either seem to have pass rushing skills, or they don't. You don't see many guys come in the NFL without a rep as a pass rusher and then all of the sudden turn it on, and start pressuring QBs. It requires a suddenness/explosiveness/combination of agility and leverage that players have or they don't. I don't believe you are ever going to take a great "set the edge" player and make him a good pass rusher, while I do think you can teach an explosive pass rusher to "set the edge". In my opinion, pass rushers can be the 2nd most important people on the field next to QBs. It is about time we get one.

I heartily agree.

Our pass rush already sux now, and will be worse in the future when you consider that the 2 guys responsible for 14 of those sacks are UFAs, and a 3rd is in the doghouse.

As long as he has the minimum height/weight/strength/arm length required, and shows the willingness & desire to do the dirty work to become a 4-down player, then inexperience in stopping the run should not be a deterrent to drafting a DE/OLB with the proven pass-rush skills that we so desperately need.

Pierre Woods can "set the edge," but absolutely nothing else. I want actual talent.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

"BB wants a 3-down OLB if he is going to pick him in the 1st round"? Sorry, but I would rather take my chances with an explosive pass rusher that may have to be coached up setting the edge than go another season with Crable/Woods/TBC/Ninkovoc as our options at OLB.

So, are you angry with us for telling you what we believe BB is thinking - based on what we've seen from him in past offseasons - or are you angry with BB for not doing it your way?

Who is this elite pass rusher you insist NE draft in round one? Would he have helped against Baltimore?

You do know Willie McGinest wants NE to get better against the run after Baltimore won the Wild Card game passing 10 times - total (4 completions)?

You've heard the NY Jest were the #1 rushing team in 2009? Miami has Ronnie Brown and Ricky Wiliams and were #4 in rushing? Buffalo has Marshawn Lynch and Fred Jackson (slugs, they only finished 16th)?

If you had a choice of putting the game in the hands of NY's rushing game or Mark Sanchez, which would you choose? Buffalo's QB du jour or their running backs? Chad Henne or put it in the hands of Ronnie and Ricky? Frustrating as it may be for you, BB just may have a valid reason for focusing on run defense first.

Oh Dear Lord, Capt. Downer agrees with you - the kiss of death, I am so sorry.

 

[iapatsfan]

So, are you angry with us for telling you what we believe BB is thinking - based on what we've seen from him in past offseasons - or are you angry with BB for not doing it your way?

Who is this elite pass rusher you insist NE draft in round one? Would he have helped against Baltimore?

You do know Willie McGinest wants NE to get better against the run after Baltimore won the Wild Card game passing 10 times - total (4 completions)?

You've heard the NY Jest were the #1 rushing team in 2009? Miami has Ronnie Brown and Ricky Wiliams and were #4 in rushing? Buffalo has Marshawn Lynch and Fred Jackson (slugs, they only finished 16th)?

If you had a choice of putting the game in the hands of NY's rushing game or Mark Sanchez, which would you choose? Buffalo's QB du jour or their running backs? Chad Henne or put it in the hands of Ronnie and Ricky? Frustrating as it may be for you, BB just may have a valid reason for focusing on run defense first.

Oh Dear Lord, Capt. Downer agrees with you - the kiss of death, I am so sorry.

Not angry at all actually. No offense to Mr. Willie, but we didn't lose to Baltimore because of their prolific running game, we lost because Brady had one viable WR to throw to and no threat of a running game. Speaking of McGinest, I would consider him the last pick of a prolific 3-4 OLB pass rusher the Pats have had. How did that pan out for us? We had a threat off the edge for over a decade.

And to mention the other AFCE teams, and how we should be worried about their offenses undermines your argument. I really do not worry about these teams lining up and running the ball down our throats. If I remember right, I do recall Henne having a career day against us because we got absolutely no pressure on him whatsoever. Am I seriously supposed to take your points about Fred Jackson and Marshawn Lynch and the Bills seriously? Their offense is horrendous, I don't care where they finished in rushing rankings. My worries about the NYJ have a lot more to do with their D than with their one dimensional O. But, if we're going to use potential opponents as are barometer as to which is more important, edge setters or pass rushers, why don't you look at the Superbowl? Against the Colts or Saints, would the world's best edge setter have made a lick of difference??? These are the teams we are chasing, and they are where they are because of prolific passing games and athletic aggressive defenses, not world beating "edge setters".

Sorry, but I don't think the avg to below avg offenses in the AFCE should be deterring us from selecting the best pass rusher available in this draft. It's about time we run a 3-4 D where we actually have OLBs an opponent has to game plan for.