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Peter King with a Blood Pumping, Feel Good Piece


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Oh great, a baseball analogy from the 60's...

What do you have against Bob Gibson? Wasn't he goos enought for you? Didn't you think his insight was cogent enough? It may have been the 60's, Mo, but he succeeded brilliantly at his job using that philosophy to guide him.

This is the Vince Lombardi school of thought on offense from the 60's - I can tell 'em what play we're running and it won't matter they can't stop us if we execute. Vince had half a dozen rigidly scripted plays in his playbook, and the best players in the league on his team, but he hasn't coached a game in the league in 4 decades. Old school approach doesn't work in today's NFL. Just ask the 2006 Raiders.

Moreso than in any other sport, the NFL is a coaches league rife with scheme and and deception. That's how you trump FA and parity, something Vince never had to deal with. A split second of indecision on the part of an opponent is all the edge these offensive coordinators are looking for these days. That and the necessary personnel to create mismatches. Welcome to the modern era NFL where it's all about exploiting the oppositions weakness whilst they are determined to take away your strength.

(Or as BB terms it taking what a defense will give you...)

Uhhh, we know, Mo. It's 2007, not 1968. You can relax about that.

When the Greatest Show on Turf lined up against us in XXXVI their plan was to do what they did best. And mano a mano we had no shot. Only our plan was to shut that down not by rushing the passer but by smacking their WR's in the mouth and hitting Marshall Faulk every time he moved. Their genius OC HC and his team were unable to adapt to that strategy, because it threw their vaunted timing off, and they only climbed back in it at the last second when our exhausted defense was too tired to hit them all.

We also played conservative on offense, eschewing the temptation to try to outscore them into submission while they were otherwise occupied and instead be carefully and conservative lest we make a costly mistake and hand them the points our defense was denying their offense. I'm sure NEM was screaming for Charlie's head and Bledsoe's arm at that juncture. Until the last minute of the half when BB adjusted one of Charlie's calls to take advantage of the coverage he was seeing, and at the end of regulation when we bucked form and went for it through the air with a minute twenty left and no time outs pinned at our own end. Who'd a thunk, not the great John Madden or Mike Martz, who were apparently expecting something more conservative like a knee or utterly foolish like a bomb.

It's all about adaptability and executing game plans and deceptive strategy these days - just ask the Colts. Who along the way to an AFCC comeback took a page out of BB's book with a 3rd quarter TD pass to a seldom used LB playing TE uncovered. And he walked in.

NEM always had it in for Weis, it is true, but why would he be screaming for Bledsoe's arm? Bledsoe wasn't his boy. That makes no sense.

(As an aside, why bother invoking NEM at all?)

All you say here about what happened 6 years ago is true (well, at least it wasn't 40 years), but the biggest single thing about that Super Bowl was the way in which Belichick dared Martz to counter the defensive schemes he presented, and Martz, for some unfathomable reason, took the bait! Look at how he abandoned Faulk in that game!

Yes, Mo, we know deception is a part and parcel of today's game. The original point, slotting Moss and putting Welker outside, still stands. Sure, Moss can undoubtedly work from the slot, but I'm still drawing a blank when trying to see Welker fly by Champ Bailey.

My original point stands - just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should!
 
Hearing that Moss is in the mix for the diverse play running was a welcome surprise to me. I expected Stallworth to be running a lot of routes short, patterns, long... which is why I said he's going to be more valuable than even Moss.

Moss has been such a specialty player I just assumed he didn't run the best routes, aside from beating his guy deep and maybe slanting in

If both Moss and Stallworth are keeping DBs completely on their toes, never knowing what's coming, that is very good news
 
Getting Bailey to cover Welker is the whole point, numby.
 
If you have two stud receivers in Moss and Stallworth, they should be out wide on almost every single play. It is increasing the degree of difficulty to have guys like Welker playing outside when he is probably average out there yet exceptional in the slot.

Wow - that's some strategy... Don't keep the other team guessing. Do only the predictable thing and send Stallworth and Moss deep every play.

I'd love that if I were a CB. I'd just sit back about 20 yards knowing that the Patriopts believe that "if you have two stud receivers in Moss and Stallworth, they should be out wide on almost every single play" keeping those guys in front of me rather than having to play them at the line of scrimmage taking the chance they might beat me deep.

While we're at it, maybe we should just refrain from doing anything other than running the ball on first down. We wouldn't want to cause our OL to have to overthink their formations now would we?

OR we can buy into what BB seems to be doing which is to keep DBs and DCs completely off ballance at all times working to soften the coverage for when Moss or Stallworth DO go deep and shake their DB.
 
Wow - that's some strategy... Don't keep the other team guessing. Do only the predictable thing and send Stallworth and Moss deep every play.

That's not what I meant.
We are all in agreement that we want to keep a defense on its toes, exploit weaknesses, trick them into an unfavorable situation. We are all on the same page here.

The HOW part is where we are in debate. If you click a few pages back I brought up how the Colts' flex run combined with its play action that looks the exact same play was a great way to deceive the D. Doing something head-scratching just to be different is what I am challenging.

Let's say Moss is only average in short middle field stuff, and Welker is only average on outside speed stuff. Why would you put both guys where neither of them excel? You guys keep saying my examples don't apply, but they are similar concepts. If Brent Barry's strengths on the Spurs are bombing 3-pointers, you don't have him post up in the paint just to 'mix things up'.
 
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I don't know if anyone answered you, but you don't know what you are talking about.

That above comment wasn't directed at me, but DaBruinz why is it every single time you post it is always about how some poster misread your comments, or is an idiot, or has absolutely no clue? You are one of the most condescending and abrasive posters here, you must be a real joy to hang out with in real life.
 
Hearing that Moss is in the mix for the diverse play running was a welcome surprise to me. I expected Stallworth to be running a lot of routes short, patterns, long... which is why I said he's going to be more valuable than even Moss.

Moss has been such a specialty player I just assumed he didn't run the best routes, aside from beating his guy deep and maybe slanting in

If both Moss and Stallworth are keeping DBs completely on their toes, never knowing what's coming, that is very good news

You haven't seen a lot of the Minny Moss. He was used a lot in the slot there. Especailly against a Cover 2 in long yardage situations.

He's an immediate threat to run a skinny post to split your safeties. Minny would run a back or tight end behind him a ton for first downs. He's also scored a lot of TD's from the slot.

He may put his most pressure on a defense from the slot. Harder to double in there.
 
How about you stick to metaphors that actually make some sense and would be applicable to the scenario. This is sport with 11 players on each side. A team can put up to 5 WRs on the field at one time. Those WRs could be lined up in any number of variations and the players have to know the variations and the defensive reads from each spot. If they don't, then the play is likely to fail because the player will go to the wrong spot.
Patriots @ Jacksonville 2006, a five wide game with :eek: Troy Brown or Bam Childress lining up at Tailback! :eek: Oh the humanity, we were doomed from the start, Jacksonville's vaunted D would "pwn" the Pats O with that "idiot" McDaniels using a WR at RB...oops, Jacksonville lost, Pats won...I wonder how Randy Moss would do lined up at RB?
 
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One part of that article bothered me, the part where it said on some plays the Pats receivers are being put in non-ideal places (Welker sprinting on the outside, Moss in the slot running an in-route, etc).

McDaniels needs to stop being cute and just put players in the best position where they will excel. Only McDaniels can screw up this juggernaut offense this year.
I don't recall Weiss being very predictable.
 
You haven't seen a lot of the Minny Moss. He was used a lot in the slot there. Especailly against a Cover 2 in long yardage situations.

He's an immediate threat to run a skinny post to split your safeties. Minny would run a back or tight end behind him a ton for first downs. He's also scored a lot of TD's from the slot.

He may put his most pressure on a defense from the slot. Harder to double in there.


How was the Viking's running game during Moss's hey day?
 
You haven't seen a lot of the Minny Moss. He was used a lot in the slot there. Especailly against a Cover 2 in long yardage situations.

He's an immediate threat to run a skinny post to split your safeties. Minny would run a back or tight end behind him a ton for first downs. He's also scored a lot of TD's from the slot.

He may put his most pressure on a defense from the slot. Harder to double in there.

I would have to say you are correct. What I knew about Moss was generally from game highlights. The deep bombs are invariably the highlights.

Also, temper that with the fact that I was not a big proponent of bringing Moss here (concerned about him taking plays off) and I wasn't exactly going out of my way to delve deep into his skillset.

If you're a Vikings/Moss fan more insights from someone who watched him for years would always be appreciated around here.
 
That's not what I meant.
We are all in agreement that we want to keep a defense on its toes, exploit weaknesses, trick them into an unfavorable situation. We are all on the same page here.

The HOW part is where we are in debate. If you click a few pages back I brought up how the Colts' flex run combined with its play action that looks the exact same play was a great way to deceive the D. Doing something head-scratching just to be different is what I am challenging.

Let's say Moss is only average in short middle field stuff, and Welker is only average on outside speed stuff. Why would you put both guys where neither of them excel? You guys keep saying my examples don't apply, but they are similar concepts. If Brent Barry's strengths on the Spurs are bombing 3-pointers, you don't have him post up in the paint just to 'mix things up'.


Well you did say "if you have two stud receivers in Moss and Stallworth, they should be out wide on almost every single play"

That doesn't sound like something that's going to keep defenses off balance to me. Furthermore the vast majority of passes thrown are NOT long and therefore mixing it up with Moss and Stallworth will allow EVERYONE to be more productive.

But as far as Weiss or McDaniel getting overly "cute" I do know what you mean. Trick plays should be used only rarely... though apparently sending Moss (not to mention Stallworth) in short to mid range patters is NOT a trick play.
 
Yes, Mo, we know deception is a part and parcel of today's game. The original point, slotting Moss and putting Welker outside, still stands. Sure, Moss can undoubtedly work from the slot, but I'm still drawing a blank when trying to see Welker fly by Champ Bailey.

My original point stands - just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should!

Sorry, but the original point about slotting Moss and putting Welker outside was debunked time and again. Just because YOU refuse to acknowledge it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

As for your original point, it still needs to be a little more detailed. Making blanket statements and acting like they fit for what is being talked about is a fools way of attempting to win an argument.

The Primary reason to line Moss up in the slot is to force a defense to do something it wasn't designed to do. I gave no less than 2 examples of how lining Moss up in the slot causes problems for the defense of which you conveniently ignored.

The second reason is to cross train him on knowing the other positions and knowing how the players are supposed to react to a certain defense. That way they are all on the same page and no two players end up in the same place.

Your Bob Gibson analogy was debunked, you just don't want to acknowledge that it was because you can't admit that your analogy was off and didn't really fit the situation.
 
But as far as Weiss or McDaniel getting overly "cute" I do know what you mean. Trick plays should be used only rarely... though apparently sending Moss (not to mention Stallworth) in short to mid range patters is NOT a trick play.

Yeah, if it's putting Moss in the slot to split the safeties, then dragging a tight end or a back over to where the space just cleared, that is a smart play. It is using your best asset to create a high percentage play.

If anyone wants to try an unconventional play with Welker, I would suggest putting Welker in the slot but get him the ball on a screen pass, or do a quick out to Welker on the outside. Having him run deep routes isn't scaring anybody. Sure, cross train him there now, but don't use him on deep routes in a game unless Moss and Stallworth are hurt. Guys like Caldwell and Gaffney are more legitimate threats there.
 
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King's feel good piece nonetheless does highlight two big questions.

Will Maroney be healthy? Are they keeping him off the practice field now just to be conservative or is his shoulder still not in game condition? And, if it isn't ready now, will it be ready by training camp?

Can the D get off the field against the top offenses or will we have to score 37 or 38 points to be in the game?

I was really encouraged by Rodney's endorsement of Moss.

I think King might be right about how the Asante situation will resolve: he'll report right before the season begins to get his $7.8 mill; the patriots won't pay him what he thinks he's worth and he'll play for someone who will next season. I wish the outcome would be different, but I just don't see the Patriots paying great player money to a very good player. I've wished many times in the last few years that they would, but they've usually been right and I don't expect them to start doing anything different now.
 
Can the D get off the field against the top offenses or will we have to score 37 or 38 points to be in the game?
I think it's an unfounded concern until/unless an abnormally large number of injuries hit again. We played a weak group of offenses last year but largely did well against the good ones we faced. Yes, the Colts killed us in the second half of the playoffs. But since then we all know we have added/returning : Harrison, Gay, Wilson, Meriweather, Thomas, Seau. And unless Samuel is gone we've lost no-one except TBC who is irrelevant with Thomas and Seau here now. I'm not even mentioning the guys who were out the second half of the Colts game with fatigue, sickness, minor injuries, the list above is long enough to realize how different it will be IF those guys can stay on the field.
 
Yeah, if it's putting Moss in the slot to split the safeties, then dragging a tight end or a back over to where the space just cleared, that is a smart play. It is using your best asset to create a high percentage play.

If anyone wants to try an unconventional play with Welker, I would suggest putting Welker in the slot but get him the ball on a screen pass, or do a quick out to Welker on the outside. Having him run deep routes isn't scaring anybody. Sure, cross train him there now, but don't use him on deep routes in a game unless Moss and Stallworth are hurt. Guys like Caldwell and Gaffney are more legitimate threats there.

Troy Brown and Wes Welker have nearly identical speed and quickness. Deion Branch is faster, but not Randy Moss or Donte Stallworth fast and he ran deep routes. I can remember several long game winning catches by both (Troy Brown in OT against Miami, Deion Branch against Pittsburgh). Why do you think that Welker couldn't have the same success, especially if the Safety steps up to help in coverage against Moss?
 
You keep bringing up examples that don't prove a damned thing in your favor. Tim Duncan plays both center and power forward. Lesser players like Al Jefferson, LaMarcus Aldridge and many more do the same thing.

Do yourself a favor and quit while you're way behind.

We know Duncan plays both center and power forward. In the example Mav4 cited, he puts Duncan at small forward, and Ginobili at power forward to highlight the absurdity that this thread has become. He's not saying that's how it is, just that if San Antone were to do such a thing, it really wouldn't make much sense.

Do yourself a favor and work on your reading comprehension before posting non sequiters like this, OK?
 
Wasn't it 6? But you knew that, didn't you!;)

Nice try Mo, but as I get to the end of this thread I'm feeling like raw meat has been thrown to the dogs!!!! Oh joy, only a month till TC!

It was eight TD's on 8 Cathes:

Vrabel has recorded eight career receptions in regular-season and playoff games, all going for touchdowns. He has caught six passes for eight yards and six touchdowns in the regular season and two passes for three yards and two touchdowns in the playoffs.


PD.
 
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