Kyle Shanahan details play-calling regret in Falcons’ Super Bowl LI loss to Patriots

[Patsfan1958]

 

[Pats1971]

I said that at one point. He was watching Brady race up and down the field in the second half and I think it caused him to make some funny decisions. Then again, its what they did all year with success. They were an agressive team.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'd like to also buy real estate in Shanny Jr's head.

Jesus it's a wonder the man can sleep at night.

At this point he's kind of a choke job as a coach.

Bad play calling vs us

Bad game management vs KC in the SB.

 

[Pats1971]

I'd like to also buy real estate in Shanny Jr's head.

Jesus it's a wonder the man can sleep at night.

At this point he's kind of a choke job as a coach.

Bad play calling vs us

Bad game management vs KC in the SB.

Yep, but in his defense, it comes down to execution. If they make a play nobody questions it. Its only questioned when its not executed. Its like the 4th and 2. If that ball is not bobbled, Bill is a genius, but because it was, it was a suspect call. Coaches can hover between the genius and idiot if plays are executed or not.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Ive seen a play by play scenario that indicates that if the Falcons just took a knee on every snap after the Julio catch (and made the 46 yard FG) and the Pats did exactly what they did and scored, the Falcons win 31-28.

 

[Pats1971]

Ive seen a play by play scenario that indicates that if the Falcons just took a knee on every snap after the Julio catch (and made the 46 yard FG) and the Pats did exactly what they did and scored, the Falcons win 31-28.

But no team is going to do that. When you are coaching you go by the flow of the game, the falcons felt they needed another TD, they did not have the time to say, ok let me take a day and think this through and oh yeah I will also know the results of each play I call and they run as well. Its easy to say what they should have done because it didnt work, mostly because the pats executed and atlanta didnt.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yep, but in his defense, it comes down to execution. If they make a play nobody questions it. Its only questioned when its not executed. Its like the 4th and 2. If that ball is not bobbled, Bill is a genius, but because it was, it was a suspect call. Coaches can hover between the genius and idiot if plays are executed or not.

Agree but I see it as blame is shared in those circumstances.

Additionally, BB has street-cred in big games.

Shanny Jr. does not.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

But no team is going to do that. When you are coaching you go by the flow of the game, the falcons felt they needed another TD, they did not have the time to say, ok let me take a day and think this through and oh yeah I will also know the results of each play I call and they run as well. Its easy to say what they should have done because it didnt work, mostly because the pats executed and atlanta didnt.

But they could have run it more. I don’t think the McCourty tackle for loss on the very next play gets enough credit. That caused the Falcons to abandon the run and attempt to throw which lead to the sack and then the holding call.

But still at that point, you run three times up the middle, kick the 40 FG and your up 31-20 with about 3 minutes left and the Pats out of timeouts. I’m guessing every coach in the NFL would take that scenario.

 

[Pats1971]

Agree but I see it as blame is shared in those circumstances.

Additionally, BB has street-cred in big games.

Shanny Jr. does not.

Yep. Because Bill has made more often than not great decisions. His teams are also programmed to do the same. I mean I try, and its hard sometimes, to see if a playcall was right regardless of the result. Like I was one of the rare few that thought what seattle did was fine with the pass they threw and the situation of the clock running, only having one timeout and the play they used. Guy just made a great play on the ball, a near perfect play that everything had to go perfect or its a td. If they run there and get stuffed, they have to call a timeout and then they pretty much cant run for fear of the clock running out, so then you get into a must pass and the pats get seattles timeout to think about it. Again had that been a td pass, Everyone is a genius. He outcoached the goat on the play, the cries of why didnt Bill call a timeout, etc etc. Shanny did run in the second half, but they were getting stuffed and the way the pats were scoring on every drive, he got spooked and said hey we are a passing team, we won all year like that and we got the lead in this game like that. Players on the pats just made great plays.

 

[Pats1971]

But they could have run it more. I don’t think the McCourty tackle for loss on the very next play gets enough credit. That caused the Falcons to abandon the run and attempt to throw which lead to the sack and then the holding call.

But still at that point, you run three times up the middle, kick the 40 FG and your up 31-20 with about 3 minutes left and the Pats out of timeouts. I’m guessing every coach in the NFL would take that scenario.

Oh no I get ya, but they also didnt see the holding call that happened on a pass play which could have happened on a run play too. I get you totally, but atlanta is a passing team and you know how some teams are, they do what they do best and do not really alter from that much, even when they should. I guess I don't like just saying, oh that was just a bad coach job, because it always seems to take away from what the players did. Hightowers sack, Long getting inside leverage and causing the hold, the pats having to literally be perfect on drives and two point conversions. Any misstep and its over. I do not like to just say, oh if the coach does this then the pats lose. Its just my thing, it does not mean you are incorrect, because you are not.

 

[oldrover]

I'd like to also buy real estate in Shanny Jr's head.

There's a little left...

 

[Sicilian]

Ive seen a play by play scenario that indicates that if the Falcons just took a knee on every snap after the Julio catch (and made the 46 yard FG) and the Pats did exactly what they did and scored, the Falcons win 31-28.

I think I've seen that too (or a similar one), but once you change one thing in a game, you can't then assume everything that happened afterwards happens the same way. If the Pats are down 31-20 now, they're not calling the same plays the rest of the way. They're probably getting more aggressive, or at the very least kicking a field goal as quickly as they can then trying an onside kick. It certainly makes it much harder for the comeback to be completed, but you can't just say they do the exact same thing to get the score to 31-28 because that's not what would happen.

 

[Pats1971]

I think I've seen that too (or a similar one), but once you change one thing in a game, you can't then assume everything that happened afterwards happens the same way. If the Pats are down 31-20 now, they're not calling the same plays the rest of the way. They're probably getting more aggressive, or at the very least kicking a field goal as quickly as they can then trying an onside kick. It certainly makes it much harder for the comeback to be completed, but you can't just say they do the exact same thing to get the score to 31-28 because that's not what would happen.

and again, we had a couple years to do all the math and the scenarios to guess. Its different in a game, when you are watching the pats score on every drive, you are thinking, we need to put the game away and you have the best passing attack in the league. I mean I can go back and second guess a lot of games and say but if they did this, this would have happened, and that is not always true. Nobody is going to take 3 knees with 4 minutes left unless you just hate your offense, which atlanta didnt.

 

[Sicilian]

and again, we had a couple years to do all the math and the scenarios to guess. Its different in a game, when you are watching the pats score on every drive, you are thinking, we need to put the game away and you have the best passing attack in the league. I mean I can go back and second guess a lot of games and say but if they did this, this would have happened, and that is not always true. Nobody is going to take 3 knees with 4 minutes left unless you just hate your offense, which atlanta didnt.

It's funny because I feel like the time has had almost the opposite effect on the Butler interception in 49. Gut reaction at the time was shock that they wouldn't run it, and certainly a lot of people still feel that way. But by backing away from the pure result, you can see a real justification for the decision, and just come to appreciate the preparedness of the Pats defense, the one in a million play made by Butler, the clutch recognition and jamming by Browner, and the gutsy tackle (with a bum shoulder) by Hightower on the previous play. Hindsight has been forgiving to Pete Carroll, and very cruel to Kyle Shanahan (fair or not).

 

[Pats1971]

It's funny because I feel like the time has had almost the opposite effect on the Butler interception in 49. Gut reaction at the time was shock that they wouldn't run it, and certainly a lot of people still feel that way. But by backing away from the pure result, you can see a real justification for the decision, and just come to appreciate the preparedness of the Pats defense, the one in a million play made by Butler, the clutch recognition and jamming by Browner, and the gutsy tackle (with a bum shoulder) by Hightower on the previous play. Hindsight has been forgiving to Pete Carroll, and very cruel to Kyle Shanahan (fair or not).

Agree. I mean the thought process is, you run a rub play there, and all year that play had worked, to the point the pats actually practiced against it. It was a go to play, worst case, its incomplete, and the clock stops then they can run and still have a timeout. People way overreacted to it all being on the playcall and forgot what an amazing play had to be made for that to be intercepted. I think media likes to damping execution a lot and just go after a decision because it makes for more talking points than, oh the player played good or played bad. As I said if its a td there, Carroll is a genius, why didnt Bill call a timeout, etc etc. But since it was a pick, Carroll is an idiot, Bill is a genius for not calling timeout. Seattle lost becuase of carroll, hell with everything else that went on in the game.

 

[Sicilian]

Agree. I mean the thought process is, you run a rub play there, and all year that play had worked, to the point the pats actually practiced against it. It was a go to play, worst case, its incomplete, and the clock stops then they can run and still have a timeout. People way overreacted to it all being on the playcall and forgot what an amazing play had to be made for that to be intercepted. I think media likes to damping execution a lot and just go after a decision because it makes for more talking points than, oh the player played good or played bad. As I said if its a td there, Carroll is a genius, why didnt Bill call a timeout, etc etc. But since it was a pick, Carroll is an idiot, Bill is a genius for not calling timeout. Seattle lost becuase of carroll, hell with everything else that went on in the game.

Which is unfortunate, because that was one of the most entertaining Super Bowls in history.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yep, but in his defense, it comes down to execution. If they make a play nobody questions it. Its only questioned when its not executed. Its like the 4th and 2. If that ball is not bobbled, Bill is a genius, but because it was, it was a suspect call. Coaches can hover between the genius and idiot if plays are executed or not.

4th and 2 will always be a "suspect call", and it's not because they failed to convert. It will be a "suspect" call because it was the wrong decision.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yep. Because Bill has made more often than not great decisions. His teams are also programmed to do the same. I mean I try, and its hard sometimes, to see if a playcall was right regardless of the result. Like I was one of the rare few that thought what seattle did was fine with the pass they threw and the situation of the clock running, only having one timeout and the play they used. Guy just made a great play on the ball, a near perfect play that everything had to go perfect or its a td. If they run there and get stuffed, they have to call a timeout and then they pretty much cant run for fear of the clock running out, so then you get into a must pass and the pats get seattles timeout to think about it. Again had that been a td pass, Everyone is a genius. He outcoached the goat on the play, the cries of why didnt Bill call a timeout, etc etc. Shanny did run in the second half, but they were getting stuffed and the way the pats were scoring on every drive, he got spooked and said hey we are a passing team, we won all year like that and we got the lead in this game like that. Players on the pats just made great plays.

Good post. Agree.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

We had a good discussion about this in QB thread. If anyone thinks a 40-yard field goal is a virtual guarantee, I'd agree that running three times, or even basically kneeling down into the line, would have been the right call. If you think the reward of picking up 5-10 more yards was worth the risk of being moved back further, you should expect your players won't be absolute morons. And again, just like the Seahawks decision, the negative outcome here (being pushed back 20 yards) is one of those 1/100 fluke things that in retrospect seemed more likely. Atlanta still had a 50-yard field goal attempt after the sack but committed a second absurdly bad situational play with a holding penalty.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

4th and 2 will always be a "suspect call", and it's not because they failed to convert. It will be a "suspect" call because it was the wrong decision.

in your logical brain, yes. in reality, no