Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

[RobertWeathers]

In my opinion the NFL shouldn't be in the business of having its own star chamber for punishing people unless it directly relates to things that happen on the field. So the answer always ought to be 0 games.

So using scumbag Irsay as an example... if you were commish you would not have suspended him?

I say this because my stated position is a player/FO/coach/owner should only be suspended for off-the -field crimes if they were found guilty by the court. I believe Irsay was found guilty or he pled guilty thus under my proposal empower Goody to have suspended him for violating the NFL PCP

 

[LJRomanoff]

So using scumbag Irsay as an example... if you were commish you would not have suspended him?

Nope. I would have left it to the courts to punish Irsay. Nothing to do with the league.

 

[PatriotsReign]

See, I think by deferring to the judicial systems to determine guilt or innocence is THE way to stay out of the cross hairs of these groups.

If said groups start to speak up, all Goody needs to do is defer to law enforcement and our legal system to determine guilt of innocence.

If Goody wants to get out of the business of being a social justice warrior and the moral compass of the universe this is the policy to have.

There really weren’t any social justice issues related to this case. But there are people OBSESSED with trying find social justice in anything and everything in life. I think it’s just the way they’re wired.

 

[PatsWSB47]

I did not present it in support of anything.
I presented it as the only fact that existed.
The doh made a referral to the PD. You are saying they mishandled it. Simple question what would you have wanted them to do with the complaint.



It wasnt rhetorical at all.
It was an truly honest discussion.
These were the facts. You disagree with what happened next, so what would you have wanted them to do?



Ok so you are in favor of breaking down the doors and pulling people out based upon a complaint from DOH and do not expect LE to investigate the complaint before storming in?
That seems contrary to your other comments.



Does that not sound like a severe violation of civil rights? If I make a complaint that something illegal is going on in your business the police can barge in without any investigation and take people away based on my complaint?



Then how was investigating wrong?
You are saying filming for x number of days was wrong because girls were at risk and should have been removed.



Sure it was. You want to say they should have hurried because there was trafficking but they acting inappropriately because there wasn’t.



You are all twisted in knots.

Why is it bad to take the half hour needed to install cameras if there is no trafficking going on?
If there was trafficking going on then they had solid reason to investigate and tape.


In any event, it seems I have your answer.
Once the DOH made a complaint you believe the PD should have broken down the doors and arrested everyone they found then figure out what they did and how you prove it later.
Ok, but I disagree.

first off you are the one that asked how do we know if they didn't remove anyone held their against their will and now your confused with my because their was no kidnapping answer? 2nd, the conditions in the complaint you posted that the Florida health Dept made absolutely show a reason to raid the place....and by the way in the PD press conference they described those same conditions. The said the workers didnt leave for weeks on end. They also painted a hell on earth picture of what was going on their. 3rd, where do you get that it only take a half an hour to install the cameras? 4th, the PD believed trafficking was going on didnt they? You've certainly made it clear you thought that's what was behind the investigation. That they haven't found it to be happening since has no bearing on what they thought in the beginning. I go back to the better safe than sorry restraining order analogy. If there was trafficking going and the conditions were what you posted then they had solid reasons for a raid, not a drawn out investigation.

 

[Zuma]

This thread is unequivocally the sweetest...and the tags too...

 

[PatriotsReign]

I'm getting the sense that while everyone is focused on the video, the real elephant in the room is the human trafficking narrative. Sure getting the video squashed is a goal but everyone pretty much knows what happened in those rooms based on the very detailed narrative. Like the Sheriff said, there's nothing to see, its ugly.

Had it not been for the way the SA and cops announced the arrests and charges, all centered around this massive international human trafficking operation, I doubt this story would have lasted a couple of news cycles.

It is the whole human trafficking angle that has made this a huge problem for Kraft. His defense team is viciously going after the cops and SA on this item, debunking the whole story line to force them to admit there was no human trafficking at all. Without human trafficking this becomes a simple solicitation misdemeanor (it already is but with a cloud).

As such, Goodell will have a tough time going crazy with punishments over a misdemeanor that typically doesn't even call for jail time even if found guilty. I'm not sure the NFL wants to get into a discussion over validity of paying for consensual sex when they are vigorously trying to get a team moved to Nevada.

There really never was a human trafficking angle. Definitely not any longer, although plenty of dopes on Twitter still act as if there was and is

 

[PatriotsReign]

Public Service Reminder:

This is about two alleged handjobs that happened behind closed doors on a high profile suspect, it is not a federal case, I come from a strong belief that what happens behind closed doors of consenting adults is a private matter.. if there was evidence of coercion or trafficking would feel different, but this is not as big a deal as the world wants it to be.

Then there are the pundits who want to somehow link this to "cameragate" and "deflategate", which is complete and utter bullsh...t.

The Police and AG have completely mismanaged this case from the onset they used a lot of resources to accomplish what they did, and continue to use them while I am certain there are bigger crimes they need to prosecute.. their effort to try this misdemeanor case in the media is about as limp dycked as it gets..

We don’t agree often, but this time we agree 100%!

It wasn’t a big deal a month ago and it’s not a big deal today. At least if it was me or you, but it’s Kraft and the media decides what’s a big deal these days...sadly

God, do I hate today’s media

 

[borg]

The actual components of an "owner suspension" are so laughable.

Cannot attend games or practices or be at the team facility.
BB will get more work done not having to indulge his owner daily.
Cannot represent the team at league affiliated events.
Bartenders will have less work
Pay a fine
Raise stadium beer prices from $11 to $15

In other words, an ego deflating exercise for billionaires used to getting their way....nothing more.

Missing trophy night would be crushing for the little hornball and I wonder how the Full 31 handle this. "Stick it to the creaper" or "Let Bob have his night before shutting him down for a month of R & R" (probably on Jerry's new yacht.....12+ miles offshore....nudge nudge say no more)

 

[PatriotsReign]

Could someone do me a favor and count the number of Andy Johnson posts in this thread?

 

[venecol]

I was being sarcastic. Seriously if they had reports that the conditions were that bad then a raid would have might been a lot more effective of a rescue of these victims than recording them having sex for a month.

What's ironic is that he was shocked you would suggest something that actually happened. Lmao

 

[Ring 6]

first off you are the one that asked how do we know if they didn't remove anyone held their against their will and now your confused with my because their was no kidnapping answer?

Exactly. We don’t know. I’m confused how police could be charged with kidnapping victims.

2nd, the conditions in the complaint you posted that the Florida health Dept made absolutely show a reason to raid the place....and by the way in the PD press conference they described those same conditions. The said the workers didnt leave for weeks on end. They also painted a hell on earth picture of what was going on their.

The police wouldn’t know the conditions if they don’t investigate unless you support treating accusations as crimes.

3rd, where do you get that it only take a half an hour to install the cameras?

I don’t and you don’t know it would take longer. Glad we can remove that made up issue from the discussion.

4th, the PD believed trafficking was going on didnt they?

There was a complaint made that they took seriously.

You've certainly made it clear you thought that's what was behind the investigation.

I don’t know how anyone could think anything else was behind it when the investigation was a response to the DOH complaint.

That they haven't found it to be happening since has no bearing on what they thought in the beginning.

That depends upon what you are arguing.
You have been arguing the fact they found nothing means they shouldn’t have placed cameras because there was no reason to.

I go back to the better safe than sorry restraining order analogy. If there was trafficking going and the conditions were what you posted then they had solid reasons for a raid, not a drawn out investigation.

So you believe that if someone is accused of a crime they should be raided and arrested before any investigation happens.
I would consider that unconstitutional.
If I call the police and tell them my neighbor is harming his children, what you are saying is the police would be right to break down the door and take the kids away with no investigation.
I disagree.

 

[Ring 6]

Could someone do me a favor and count the number of Andy Johnson posts in this thread?

Obsessed much?

 

[PatriotsReign]

Obsessed much?

Reread your response and think of the irony

 

[Ring 6]

Reread your response and think of the irony

I don’t follow posters around and make posts about them. No irony at all.

 

[PatriotsReign]

I don’t follow posters around and make posts about them. No irony at all.

Andy, let it go.

I haven’t even been on this board since last weekend. But every page I scan through I see your name. Just be honest with yourself, you’re a tad compulsive

 

[PatsWSB47]

Exactly. We don’t know. I’m confused how police could be charged with kidnapping victims.



The police wouldn’t know the conditions if they don’t investigate unless you support treating accusations as crimes.


I don’t and you don’t know it would take longer. Glad we can remove that made up issue from the discussion.


There was a complaint made that they took seriously.




I don’t know how anyone could think anything else was behind it when the investigation was a response to the DOH complaint.




That depends upon what you are arguing.
You have been arguing the fact they found nothing means they shouldn’t have placed cameras because there was no reason to.




So you believe that if someone is accused of a crime they should be raided and arrested before any investigation happens.
I would consider that unconstitutional.
If I call the police and tell them my neighbor is harming his children, what you are saying is the police would be right to break down the door and take the kids away with no investigation.
I disagree.

You are hopeless.

 

[Ring 6]

You are hopeless.

You want to have it both ways.

I’ve simply asked you based upon the facts known what you think should have been done.

You gave an answer that says you think the police should raid a business because someone lodged a complaint.
Now we know you only gave that answer because it’s consistent with criticizing what was done.
Unwittingly in the name of greater civil liberties you endorse a police state.

You are too busy trying to win an argument that you decided without thinking through the facts that you are now supporting something that is more egregious than the reason you are arguing in the first place.
I understand you are frustrated since I pointed this out by don’t blame me, think.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

To summarize the evil scandals of the NEP (minus the holy **** Hernandez stuff) over the last 20 years.

-An unauthorized team camera was on the sidelines recording a televised football game.

-Dorito Dink took a leak before a game while in possession of the balls.

-Bob Kraft slipped a masseuse $60 for a consensual happy ending.

What a disgusting organization.

 

[Ring 6]

You are hopeless.

Let’s look at it a different way.

If the police took the DOH complaint, and without investigation asked the court for a warrant to forcibly enter the premises make arrests and rescue any sex skaves they think they find do you think the court would or legally could, grant that?

 

[venecol]

So the whole DOH inspector narrative was also total bulls*t. The inspector was sent there by the cops. Her report doesn't match what cops described in the warrant application, they lied or exaggerated her findings. Lmao