Kraft acknowledges drafting woes, says approach is changing

[Deus Irae]

It is obvious Kraft is reeling both from the state of his team and Brady's SB win in Tampa with a loaded team. I give him credit for being so candid and taking multiple shots at Bill. His comment about Brady was not so much a shot at Brady but at the state of the team. It is so interesting to me that Kraft has echoed everything we have said on these boards the last several months - the sucky drafts, the putrid roster last year, Bill not giving Stidham a shot and the FA cash spree that we used to make fun of other teams for doing. All of it has been great validation to many of us.

Sure, but it's also a way to buttress Cam. And I get why they'd want to do that, but equating Newton, who sucked even when the team was basically at full strength, to Brady, who's struggles took place when everything around him had collapsed over the course of a season, is silly. "Tom in the last X games!" is used to excuse Cam's entire season, and it's a nonsensical comparison.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'm curious, who knows (shouldn't the Pats know) who was responsible for finding undrafted Malcolm Butler and JC Jackson ? We should elevate that person and never draft corners again without that person's evaluation. Something is broken where the Patriot high draft CB picks use a broken system but our UDFAs can end up pro bowlers. Does anyone know who found Malcolm and JC Jackson ???

Frantzy Jourdain was the scout who educated the FO on Malcolm. He is no longer with the organization.

JC was more of a known quantity to NFL scouts as he was ranked with 3rd-to-5th rd talent but due to some legal issues he went undrafted.

 

[raduray]

Maybe he's finally realized after dishing out of his pocket $165M (record) in guarantees, that not having Brady to cover for all the draft screw ups, is going to cost him dearly in the upcoming years. Maybe Kraft needs to go to the Brady/Bucs forum too. LMAO

I don't get this. Doesn't he have to spend to the cap (average over a number of years)? Is it really out of pocket discretionary spending?

 

[davidjc]

Agreed pretending Cam is a good QB is pointless. He never was a great passer. He was serviceable and had a very strong run threat which allowed it to complement his passing game. I always knew that Cam would have the shelf life of your average running back because like running backs he was dependent on speed and mobility. It's the problem with all these "dual" threat QBs, they are all going to have a hard time playing at an elite level past 30 years of age.

Cam simply lacks the IQ and passer acumen to compete at a high level without his mobility and a scheme designed to take advantage of it. And even when Cam was in his prime he was only a top 10 QB. There is no sense in pretending Cam is going to do anything but maybe pull out a mediocre performance next year.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't get this. Doesn't he have to spend to the cap (average one a number of years)? Is it really out of pocket discretionary spending?

Teams need to spend/have allocated up to 89% or something like that of the cap every year.

Actual cash outlay for deals/contracts is a different thing.

 

[Rob0729]

It is hard to evaluate any personnel "leader" here because of the influence BB has on player eval, drafting, trading and most importantly player development/role fit.

Yeah, but Belichick didn't scout every player himself. As you go down the food chain, the people scout more and more players and weed out the ones to not to bring to Belichick. Belichick has final say, but a lot of players never come to his desk because they are deemed not worthy at different levels. I bet Belichick only sees about 25% of the draft prospects or maybe even less that the scouting department scouts specifically for drafting (players that fit what the Pats might be looking for in the draft).

Belichick is only good as his scouting department no matter if he over rules them on a pick or not. He still relies on them to get him the scouting report and select the pool of players for Belichick to choose from.

That said, that has also been an issue because I heard somewhere that the Pats in recent years has had one of the smallest scouting departments in large part due to other teams taking their personnel.

 

[50-yard-line]

The organization continues to take everything about "the Patriot Way" and turn into a farce.

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Yesh - so much for no excuses. Covid, the receivers, everything was so great for those 3 games before the cruel hand of fate came in.

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Look - there is absolutely no way that this offseason will result in an overall positive gain for the Patriots. You don't build a team through free agency; the guys they signed, like with everyone in free agency, are mid/mid-upper class players, and they're paying them elite salaries. That's what free agency is, with occassional exceptions. You use it to fill our your roster and plug holes. Sure, there's a slight silver lining in 2021 because of the lower cap and less bidders, but this wasn't some brilliant coup and market inefficiency. It was a team with a ton of cash to burn because of so many personnel failures, mainly through the draft, but also failures to lock up their own players long-term. It would have been the perfect "reckoning year" had they backloaded contracts and kept the late 2010s largely in tact and added some free agents to a championhip contender. Insteaed of using the backloading cap flexibility when they had the chance, they found themselves wth way more extra cap space than they should have had.

If this were the Jets or Dolphins, we'd be laughing at them for proclaiming they're looking at some market inefficiencies and capitalizing on them. They outbid teams for a bunch of overpriced free agents and made "a splash." There's no reason to overanalyze it. It's a bad look to act like some chess grandmaster for these signings.

I was disappointed that they moved on from Brady but thought they'd have a great rebuilding plan. I expcect this team will be competitive (for a Wild Card) in 2021 and then will have some really big prolems if they don't hit a home run in this draft.

I've been largely staying away from these threads because I know how negative I'm coming across, but hey, at least I'm being consistent about what I've praised them for over the last 20 yeard and laughed at other desperate teams for doing.

I don't think Judon is overpaid at 14/year. Zadarious Smith got 16.5, and when FA began, a lot of predictions were that Judon would exceed that. Judon doesn't have gaudy sack numbers, but watch his game - he's exactly what BB wants on the Edge, and at 14/per, that's not an overpay.

Henry and Smith are both making a bit more than Austin Hooper, and both are better. Kittle and Kelce are both making more (and Kelce is starting on the downside with a contract that'll pay him until he's 36).

There are 25 WRs with a bigger payout/cap hit this year than Nelson Agholor (and yes, that matters a lot). He's the least favorite signing for many here, but his contract isn't ridiculous at all.

So who did they overpay? Bourne at $5/per? Anderson at 3.5/per? Andrews, Karras, Guy, White, Adams, Godchaux, Bethel?

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I'm not sure anyone is necessarily responsible for identifying them in the first place. With UDFA you tend to look at guys you think have potential, bring as many in as you can to round out a 90 man camp roster, and then keep who stands out. It's a buckshot approach. I give Belichick 90% of the credit for them, not because he picked them up knowing who they'd become, but because he chose to keep them on the roster and developed them as a coach.

EDIT: I should add, I give BB 90% of the credit as far as team personnel involved in player selection/development. Obviously Malcolm and JC deserve a TON of credit for the work they've put in to come as far as they have. I was more speaking just in relation to your point about elevating someone in the front office.

Great points. So clearly Belichick can still spot talent when he sees it even among a bunch of undrafted castoffs. I also forgot Jacobi Meyers but same point. Whoever is screening CBs/WRs for drafts and showing Belichick a highlights tape, Belichick is taking them at their word/opinion to draft them but those players flame out once he gets an actual look at them. They need to blow up the CB/WR scouting system because it hasn't worked since....Deion Branch.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yeah, but Belichick didn't scout every player himself. As you go down the food chain, the people scout more and more players and weed out the ones to not to bring to Belichick. Belichick has final say, but a lot of players never come to his desk because they are deemed not worthy at different levels. I bet Belichick only sees about 25% of the draft prospects or maybe even less that the scouting department scouts specifically for drafting (players that fit what the Pats might be looking for in the draft).

Belichick is only good as his scouting department no matter if he over rules them on a pick or not. He still relies on them to get him the scouting report and select the pool of players for Belichick to choose from.

That said, that has also been an issue because I heard somewhere that the Pats in recent years has had one of the smallest scouting departments in large part due to other teams taking their personnel.

Yes but it's the job of the leader to have a great scouting organization. That leader is BB. Did Pioli and Caserio handle the overall management aof college and pro scouting? Yes but those orgs also had leaders who were responsible for making sure the regional scouts did their job.

Correct on the scouting dept. NE has one of the smallest as coaches are expected to also go on scouting trips/player evals

 

[50-yard-line]

I don't get this. Doesn't he have to spend to the cap (average one a number of years)? Is it really out of pocket discretionary spending?

No, it's not. It's just more cash up front. Kraft had to get the actual money together a bit earlier, which is often the case. So while other teams are scrambling with multiple "void years," the Pats aren't.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Frantzy Jourdain was the scout who educated the FO on Malcolm. He is no longer with the organization.

JC was more of a known quantity to NFL scouts as he was ranked with 3rd-to-5th rd talent but due to some legal issues he went undrafted.

Same with Jacobi Meyers, do we know who found Meyers? The WR draft system is broken too.

 

[Bill Lee]

Dugger has the makings of a beast. Came on strong after Halloween
Uche was looking very good until he got hurt
Onwenu is Pro-Bowl potential
Herron looks like a solid reserve
Jennings is TBD. He got thrown to the wolves
Asiasi and and Keene are TBD.

Rule of thumb is if a team can land 2 starters and 2 reserves every draft then they are doing great.

If all 6 of those 10 picks improve more it'll be considered a VERY good draft.

Uhm, yeah, especially if you're picking 22nd in the 2020 draft, even lower in previous years.

It's not like we're JAX or NYJ or CIN with prime draft position year after year.

> I quite liked the 2020 draft. ... ...and I think one of Asiasi or Keene (maybe both) will have decent careers.

Based on their FA signings, the Patriots have acknowledged that Asiasi and Keene are busts....flops...

What logic. All it says is veteran players are further along in their development than guys coming off their rookie seasons. Krafty Bob decided to open his wallet this off-season and BB picked up players at a spot that is critical to making the good old Perkins-Erhardt offense work. Had some other team spent more in FA than us on TE then these guys would be right back to what logic says they are, first year players early in their development curve, not "busts".

Jeez, not every player you draft is going to be an impact player right out of the gate, especially with no real offseason program and a QB that's learning the system...

OMG.

There aren't any "shots across the bow" or significant indications of the relationship between Kraft and Belichick in here. There's not even an inferred criticism in this statement, regardless of how emotionally satisfying that would be to some posters.

The Patriots aren't run like some kind of high school girls social media club. They don't "send messages" to each other through the media. Anyone in any serious business who tries to do that is admitting their powerlessness and emotional desperation. It would be incredibly humiliating to the person who spoke up.

Its just the owner musing out loud on what is patently obvious to everyone. It isn't going to have any impact on Belichick at all. He and Kraft exchange their real thoughts, strategies, and concerns in private, quite frequently I'd imagine.

It's amazing how some people lap up the all the soap opera narratives. They are a curse to our fan base.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Same with Jacobi Meyers, do we know who found Meyers? The WR draft system is broken too.

I think Camren Williams found him. He does scouting in the SE

 

[patsfanincleveland]

I don't get this. Doesn't he have to spend to the cap (average one a number of years)? Is it really out of pocket discretionary spendi

100% correct. There is a floor.

Your response was to the mindless chatter of a clueless individual.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

Uhm, yeah, especially if you're picking 22nd in the 2020 draft, even lower in previous years.

It's not like we're JAX or NYJ or CIN with prime draft position year after year.


What logic. All it says is veteran players are further along in their development than guys coming off their rookie seasons. Krafty Bob decided to open his wallet this off-season and BB picked up players at a spot that is critical to making the good old Perkins-Erhardt offense work. Had some other team spent more in FA than us on TE then these guys would be right back to what logic says they are, first year players early in their development curve, not "busts".

Jeez, not every player you draft is going to be an impact player right out of the gate, especially with no real offseason program and a QB that's learning the system...




It's amazing how some people lap up the all the soap opera narratives. They are a curse to our fan base.

It's high level intrigue when the team with the most CAP space spends more that the other teams.

 

[raduray]

Teams need to spend/have allocated up to 89% or something like that of the cap every year.

Actual cash outlay for deals/contracts is a different thing.

Can you elaborate on that. I don't understand the distinction. I mean, if you put up a lot of cash one year for bonuses, that translates to less cash spending in future years as that bonus money is amortized and counts against the cap. It all nets out over a number of years.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Uhm, yeah, especially if you're picking 22nd in the 2020 draft, even lower in previous years.

It's not like we're JAX or NYJ or CIN with prime draft position year after year.

That's where I think Orchids of Bob was a little out of line and came across as uninformed. It's certainty warranted to question the early round picks in last 5 drafts (Harry, Williams, Dawson, Cyrus, etc) but as I also have said picking in the bottom 4/5ths of each round by default makes it difficult to acquire blue-chip talent. Additionally need to look at historical success rate for players picked in the slots the NEP have to form a more informed opinion to state if their drafting truly sucks.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Can you elaborate on that. I don't understand the distinction. I mean, if you put up a lot of cash one year for bonuses, that translates to less cash spending in future year as that bonus money is amortized and counts against the cap. It all nets out over a number of years.

A team can shell out $20m in signing bonus but as it pertains to the cap spread the hit of that cash outlay over as many years they want.

Check out the Dak Prescott contract and it'll make sense.

 

[Captain Cliche]

Any of you ***wipes that think Bill is on the hot seat after 1 losing season after 20 winning years and 6 Super Bowls are either delusional or straight up hater-ambulance chasers who were lurking in the wings just hoping for this situation so they could spew their garbage takes.

"He pushed Brady out the door. He can't draft. He needs to go!!!"
I expected this from the media for obvious reasons (he doesn't give them the steam off his turds).
I didn't expect it from so many fans.

Maybe you should stop following the Pats until Evil Bill is gone.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Bob gave Bill the swift kick in the a** he needed.

I expect a big trade up in the draft for a top player. It may not be a QB, but it’s going to be someone that is expected to play NOW!