Jimmy Williams a true Patriot

[RxJock1120]

The safety/cornerback from Virginia Tech. In BB's system, the system is designed for this guy. If it takes an extra 3rd(which we have) and a 6th, I would be willing to give up for this guy. He is a hybrid safety and cornerback just like Eugene Wilson, one year under Harrison and he will be a star in this league. He's got the size for a safety and the coverage skills of a corner. In our defense he will learn how to play the positions. You all know we need to find a safety/cornerback to make this defense work. Williams, if he learns how to play corner would be the perfect choice. Any thoughts???

 

[DaBruinz]

1st and foremost, this should be on the draft forum.

Beyond that, I like what I read about him. The problem is that he will, most likely, be gone before the Pats can even think about drafting him. There are several teams ahead of the Pats who need help at corner.

I wouldn't pay anything extra to move up and get him without having seen him actually play.

 

[RxJock1120]

1st and foremost, this should be on the draft forum.

Beyond that, I like what I read about him. The problem is that he will, most likely, be gone before the Pats can even think about drafting him. There are several teams ahead of the Pats who need help at corner.

I wouldn't pay anything extra to move up and get him without having seen him actually play.

I agree if we stay still, he will be gone, but BB has a few extra picks and I can't see anyone who fits the Pats mold better then Williams. BB did nothing last draft, which makes me think he will give up a few picks to acquire Jimmy Williams. If you could give me an honest reason why the Pats don't draft Williams I will listen, but personaly, I have checked a bunch of websites and have seen William droping down because noone knows if he is a safety or a corner, the draft boils down to most scouts don't kwon. Which personaly I believe will not be a problem for the Pats, cause either way it means he fits or he will find a place in our defense. BB like to switch up what player does what, and Williams is the perfect man to do so.

 

[shirtsleeve]

Good player. Wont be there at #21. BB almost never trades up. He usually trades down for extra picks. The big first round money usually deters big moves up.

 

[broadwayjoe]

Good player. Wont be there at #21. BB almost never trades up. He usually trades down for extra picks. The big first round money usually deters big moves up.

Bingo!!! You hit it right on the nail we would only get him if he does a nose dive like Vince Wilfork did.

 

[tombonneau]

Good player. Wont be there at #21. BB almost never trades up. He usually trades down for extra picks. The big first round money usually deters big moves up.

????

You mean like for Graham, Branch & Wilson.

And those are just off the top of my head. I'm sure there are several more Day 2 trade ups. BB moves up & down all the time, to say he "almost never trades up" is a bit of a puzzling statement.

 

[Digger44]

????

You mean like for Graham, Branch & Wilson.

And those are just off the top of my head. I'm sure there are several more Day 2 trade ups. BB moves up & down all the time, to say he "almost never trades up" is a bit of a puzzling statement.

We went up for Ty Warren, maybe 2 slots, but bb got his man.

 

[DaBruinz]

I agree if we stay still, he will be gone, but BB has a few extra picks and I can't see anyone who fits the Pats mold better then Williams. BB did nothing last draft, which makes me think he will give up a few picks to acquire Jimmy Williams. If you could give me an honest reason why the Pats don't draft Williams I will listen, but personaly, I have checked a bunch of websites and have seen William droping down because noone knows if he is a safety or a corner, the draft boils down to most scouts don't kwon. Which personaly I believe will not be a problem for the Pats, cause either way it means he fits or he will find a place in our defense. BB like to switch up what player does what, and Williams is the perfect man to do so.

Just because you don't see anyone who "Fits the Pats mold better" doesn't mean that there isn't someone there. Unless you can honestly sit there and tell me that you pegged all the guys in the last 2 drafts as "Fitting the Patriots Mold" what basis are you using? Its just pure speculation on your part.

Also, where do you get your information? BB did nothing last draft? What are you talking about? The Pats made several trades last draft. That is why we have the picks we have now.

Also, its highly unlikely that a 3rd and 6th round pick are going to get us up anywhere near where we need to be to draft Williams. One of the other things you are over-looking is the financial cost of someone like Williams. The cost is significantly more than that of a 3rd and 6th round pick.

What you don't seem to be taking into consideration is how the Pats run their draft. The Patriots have their own scouting staff and don't use all these wonderful websites that we, the fans, love to drool over. The Pats run their draft based on the VALUE that they, the Patriots, place on each player. That VALUE stems from numerous things that include Team Need, A player's tangibles, and a Player's intangibles. The Patriots don't just draft a guy because he is listed as the BEST by the different web sites. Otherwise, Ty Warren wouldn't have been the guy they were going after to start with in the 2003 draft. That there should be reason enough not to assume that Jimmy Williams is in the PATRIOT MOLD.

Another reason that Williams may not be in the "Patriots Mold" is because of his attitude. You know. The attitude that got him tossed from the Gator Bowl this year in the 1st quarter. That's conduct detrimental to the team. BB has an issue with that.

 

[DaBruinz]

Good player. Wont be there at #21. BB almost never trades up. He usually trades down for extra picks. The big first round money usually deters big moves up.

Sorry to rain on your parade. Where do you get that BB almost NEVER trades up?

Ty Warren. Eugene Wilson. Bethel Johnson. Matt Light. Kenyatta Jones. Daniel Graham.

BB makes the trades he needs to make to get the players he wants.

 

[shirtsleeve]

????

You mean like for Graham, Branch & Wilson.

And those are just off the top of my head. I'm sure there are several more Day 2 trade ups. BB moves up & down all the time, to say he "almost never trades up" is a bit of a puzzling statement.

Excuse me, he rarely trades away valuable rd 2 and rd 3 picks to move well into the first half of the first round. Thats where Williams will go. Wont be on the board by pick 11, never mind 21.

 

[DaBruinz]

Excuse me, he rarely trades away valuable rd 2 and rd 3 picks to move well into the first half of the first round. Thats where Williams will go. Wont be on the board by pick 11, never mind 21.

A few things.
1) It would only take a 3rd rounder to move up from 21 to 16 based on the Draft Value chart (which is just a guideline). But even that isn't enough to get to Williams.

2) How do you think that BB moved up to take Graham? BB traded a 1st, 3rd and 7th pick to go from 32 to 21 in the 2002 draft.

3) BB has had very little luck drafting in the 3rd round prior to this year where he seems to have struck gold with Kazcur and Hobbs. Prior to that, here is what happened:

2004 - Guss Scott - Been on the IR twice.
2003 - Traded the Pick away
2002 - Traded the Pick away
2001 - Took Brock Williams who got hurt in TC, went on the IR and was let go the next season after TC.
2000 - J.R. Redmond

Something else to remember. Prior to the 2004 Draft, BB had RARELY taken underclassmen in his drafts. BB drafted 3 that year. Wilfork, PK Sam and Marquis Hill. Prior to the 2005 draft, BB had never used a 1st round pick on an interior lineman. He used it on Logan Mankins, who was projected to be an interior lineman while being a back-up at tackle.

If you have learned ANYTHING over the last two years of the draft, don't presume that you have BB figured out.

 

[DaBruinz]

Excuse me, he rarely trades away valuable rd 2 and rd 3 picks to move well into the first half of the first round. Thats where Williams will go. Wont be on the board by pick 11, never mind 21.

Shirtsleeve -
One last thing. People told the Pats fans in 2004 that they shouldn't even think about Wilfork, Stephen Jackson or Kevin Jones because they were all going to go top 15. Well, Wilfork went 21, Jackson went 24 and Jones went 30. So, forgive me if I put absolutely NO STOCK in your guaranteeing that Williams will go in the 1st half of the round one.

 

[shirtsleeve]

Wow! seem to have hit a nerve, there. Not my intent. No one (maybe not even himself) has figured how BB (and SP) approaches any draft. Its all guesswork. The Pats always manipulate with trades...until they picked in order year before last. Some other against the grains you have pointed out. Its a crapshoot.

Its also way to early to guarantee anything about players dropping in value. But as it stands now, Williams stock is sky high, though dropping a tad. And there are teams picking ahead of us looking for help there too. Most mock drafts now have him not making it past the Ravens.

 

[DaBruinz]

Shirtsleeve -
Its very irritating when people act as if they know certainties when its a crapshoot as you say.

As for Williams, again, I point you to Wilfork, Jones and Jackson from the 2004 draft. 99% of the mock drafts out there had those 3 all gone by the top 15. You can also add Aaron Rodgers to that list. He was slated to go top 5, yet fell to 26 or something. My point is that no one knows what will happen.

If BB feels that Jimmy Williams is a "PATRIOT" in terms of his intangibles, and he feels that trading up is worth it and what the team needs, then I have no doubt that BB will make the trade up. Especially since the Pats already have 9 draft picks and will be getting 2-3 comp picks. That gives them plenty of picks to move up and down and into next year with.

 

[tombonneau]

FWIW, gbnreport.com has Williams going like 9 or 10.

I think the DB we can only realistically hopes falls to the Pats is Huff. He prob. won't last to 21, but most mocks have him going mid-teens. If he falls a bit further than that, a tradeup could be possible.

 

[nickw308810]

I have read that Jimmy Williams' stock has been slipping. He will obviously still be a 1st rounder, but we may not have to move up as much as we would have thought.

 

[DaBruinz]

FWIW, gbnreport.com has Williams going like 9 or 10.

I think the DB we can only realistically hopes falls to the Pats is Huff. He prob. won't last to 21, but most mocks have him going mid-teens. If he falls a bit further than that, a tradeup could be possible.

Tom -
In 2004, Stephen Jackson was considered "A LOCK" to be a top 5 pick. What happened? He slipped to 24.

In 2005, Aaron Rodgers was "A LOCK" to be a top 5 pick. He slid into the 20s.

What I am saying is that who knows what will happen. I mean, Lofa Tatupu was slated to be a 4th or 5th rounder and the Seahawks "REACHED" and took him early in the 2nd round.

This draft is every bit as deep, if not DEEPER, than the 2004 draft, in terms of talent. There is going to be damn good talent had all through-out day 1 and quite possibly into day 2.

 

[drewdagreat]

Jimmy Williams has no class. He isn't a team player. And he gets burned like toast all the time. I went to the ACC title game and the young FSU recievers took him to school. Keep him away from our team.

 

[tombonneau]

Tom -
In 2004, Stephen Jackson was considered "A LOCK" to be a top 5 pick. What happened? He slipped to 24.

In 2005, Aaron Rodgers was "A LOCK" to be a top 5 pick. He slid into the 20s.

What I am saying is that who knows what will happen. I mean, Lofa Tatupu was slated to be a 4th or 5th rounder and the Seahawks "REACHED" and took him early in the 2nd round.

This draft is every bit as deep, if not DEEPER, than the 2004 draft, in terms of talent. There is going to be damn good talent had all through-out day 1 and quite possibly into day 2.

Oh, I totally agree. The opinions of website draftniks and actual NFL GMs are sometimes not in synch.

But right now its all we have to go on, so makes for nice idle banter.

 

[DaBruinz]

Oh, I totally agree. The opinions of website draftniks and actual NFL GMs are sometimes not in synch.

But right now its all we have to go on, so makes for nice idle banter.

Yep. It does. But its also why I am not stuck on the idea that some guy is a guaranteed 1st rounder. The only ones that I am wary of are guys who were projected as 5th rounders going into a season (D'wayne Robertson, Mike Mamula) and have been sky-rocketing because of their workouts (Manny Lawson).

Basically, I just try and coice caution and remind people that nothing is out of the realm of possibility.