Bedard on Pats DB Coaching

[Ivan]

I hate to use a baseball analogy, but reaction and brains and practice can make a good 2nd 3rd baseman, brooks robinson was slow as hell on the basepaths. You cannot play shortstop adequately without having superior athletic ability. Cornerback is the same. I don't know how anyone could look at Revis blanket someone and think that was taught. technique and practice are on top, but a Revis is born. Safety is different.

I think what makes Revis superior is his football IQ and his instincts that result from that. Like the great QB's and exceptional players at other positions he sees the play before it develops and reacts quicker to it. It is the same quality that made Bruschi so good, all of the LB' were being taught the same techniques but Bruschi's IQ and instincts simply made him better than the other ILB's they brought in over those years.

 

[Oswlek]

Who does?

And don't say Seattle because their success is newfound and doesn't fit the label of "consistent" that you asked for.

Are Revis and Browner significantly better than the other Patriot CB's,no qestion about it, is it talent or teaching, I would say talent because I have a really hard time believing that Bedard has a better eye for technique than Belichick, and I can't imagine Belichick and Patricia allowing a DB coach to consistently teach poor techniques and keep their job.

Up until the past two weeks (some of which may be explainable with Ari and SF struggling against all comers of late) Seattle has looked pretty thin at CB. There was complaining about the starter opposite Sherman, let alone the 3rd and 4th guys.

It is pretty odd, though, that guys like Dennard and Ryan look reasonably competent starting at times the past year and a half, but then struggle so much against the 3rd receiver. Clearly its a different role, but you would expect the talent drop off to mitigate that somewhat.

 

[Ivan]

This thread speaks volumes about our DB situation after Revis and Browner we have nothing worth a dam at CB. With the 32 pick in the 2015 NFL Draft the N.E. Patriots select CB _____ !
What happened to Malcom Butler I think he's better than both Dennard and Ryan on the outside. Ryan gets beaten like a rented mule on just any kind of move. Our CB's aside from Revis and Butler are just too stiff in the hips that is why they cannot mirror WR's.

You know, if you could just swing by Gillette and tell Belichick to start drafting CB's with loose hips this could become a dynasty.

 

[Oswlek]

Yeah..

Dennard, Butler, Arrington and Ryan are "nothing worth a damn". Right. You should watch some of the games from 2011 and see how Sterling Moore, Idhegibo and Edelman (!!) looked as our options in the secondary.

You don't even need to do that, just watch any other game this weekend. Despite the rough go of it in Lambeau, NE has the deepest stable of CBs in the entire league.

 

[reflexblue]

This statement demands verification. What evidence do you have that NE's home grown DBs are making mistakes that are purely technical mistakes and not related to ability?

Bedard gave a snall example of what he was talking about. i belive he used ryan as an example. in covering his opponent ryan should face him squarly at the line, as the ball is snapped ryan should jam the reciever, knock him off his route then push of his Left foot to take away the inside as ryan boxes out the wr he should reach in with his Left hand to defend the ball. While revis and browner do this ryan and other "home grown ' dbs don't. if ryan pushed off on his left foot it would naturally move him the direction of the wr he was covering on that side of the field sunday. its a sublt distinction but one he thinks makes a difference.

 

[Kontradiction]

Why can't the Patriots consistently develop Cornerbacks of a high quality?

Because the Pats, with a couple of exceptions, have drafted **** corners. You could exhume the corpses of Vince Lombardi and Tom Landry, bring them back to life, and have them coach the Wheatleys and the Wilhites and the Butlers of the world and it wouldn't matter. If you have a bone to pick, start with their drafting of CB's.

 

[Jimke]

You don't even need to do that, just want any other game this weekend. Despite the rough go of it in Lambeau, NE has the deepest stable of CBs in the entire league.

Is deep synonymous with good? I think the Patriots have one excellent CB (Revis), one good one (Browner),
and the rest are average at best. I think Malcolm Butler is the best of the rest. He seems to stay with the receiver
and turn at the right time to defend the ball, but he seems to have fallen out of favor.

 

[Oswlek]

Is deep synonymous with good?

Yes. Every team has bodies, having "depth" means that those bodies can play. Arrington, Ryan, Butler and Dennard are far from "average at best" by 3rd-6th CB standards. If they were the top four, I'd completely agree.

 

[Jimke]

Mangina was a db coach. Maybe hire him? Should be possible to hire someone who can coach. Pats can't afford bad db play.

Mangini was a good DB coach. He did a terrific job coaching rookie Eugene Wilson when Lawyer Milloy was cut.

 

[ausbacker]

Who does?

And don't say Seattle because their success is newfound and doesn't fit the label of "consistent" that you asked for.

Are Revis and Browner significantly better than the other Patriot CB's,no qestion about it, is it talent or teaching, I would say talent because I have a really hard time believing that Bedard has a better eye for technique than Belichick, and I can't imagine Belichick and Patricia allowing a DB coach to consistently teach poor techniques and keep their job.

I've already stated I believe it's combination of talent and technique with the emphasis more on technique.

Because the Pats, with a couple of exceptions, have drafted **** corners. You could exhume the corpses of Vince Lombardi and Tom Landry, bring them back to life, and have them coach the Wheatleys and the Wilhites and the Butlers of the world and it wouldn't matter. If you have a bone to pick, start with their drafting of CB's.

It's frustrating Kontra. I understand the low draft pick mentality and that drafting is an inexact science but repeating mistakes of the past is a quick road to nowhere. Thankfully, the hits have been major hits.

 

[IllegalContact]

I recall winning an SB with Moreland and Gay as corners.......mostly because of the front 7

Barwin, Wilkerson, Reyes would have us there

 

[Oswlek]

I recall winning an SB with Moreland and Gay as corners.......mostly because of the front 7

And Rodney Harrison.

 

[IllegalContact]

And Rodney Harrison.

Coud have spent $$ on a free agent

 

[Oswlek]

Coud have spent $$ on a free agent

I have absolutely no idea what this means.

 

[RayClay]

Bedard gave a snall example of what he was talking about. i belive he used ryan as an example. in covering his opponent ryan should face him squarly at the line, as the ball is snapped ryan should jam the reciever, knock him off his route then push of his Left foot to take away the inside as ryan boxes out the wr he should reach in with his Left hand to defend the ball. While revis and browner do this ryan and other "home grown ' dbs don't. if ryan pushed off on his left foot it would naturally move him the direction of the wr he was covering on that side of the field sunday. its a sublt distinction but one he thinks makes a difference.

So, Bedard is an expert on coaching cornerback technique? When did that happen?

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/blog/2012/11/29/patriots-beat-writer-greg-a-bedard/

 

[Oswlek]

So, Bedard is an expert on coaching cornerback technique? When did that happen?

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/blog/2012/11/29/patriots-beat-writer-greg-a-bedard/

At least that is an actual discussion of technique, so we're moving in the right direction. He still has a ways to go to demonstrate that Ryan made that mistake because he was coached to do it. Couldn't have had just made a mistake? To really prove that you'd either need to see every single non-FA corner making that mistake regularly or you'd need to demonstrate that guys like Dennard and Ryan weren't making those mistakes in their rookie/college years but do now.

Still a long way to go, but it's more convincing that just saying, "they're not as good so the coaching must suck!"

 

[RayClay]

At least that is an actual discussion of technique, so we're moving in the right direction. He still has a ways to go to demonstrate that Ryan made that mistake because he was coached to do it. Couldn't have had just made a mistake? To really prove that you'd either need to see every single non-FA corner making that mistake regularly or you'd need to demonstrate that guys like Dennard and Ryan weren't making those mistakes in their rookie/college years but do now.

Still a long way to go, but it's more convincing that just saying, "they're not as good so the coaching must suck!"

You'd also have to have coached defensive backs and realize that some have much more native athletic ability than others. I appreciate that he watches film, just like some posters here, who also have the advantage of having coached or played more than one year of high school football.

I just think it's really presumptuous of him to criticize the coaching staff because some other writer showed him how to watch film, so now he is the expert on coaching cornerback technique. I guess you'd call that jumping the shark.

But, most of all, the entire story of our team is now a coaching staff that fails to teach cornerback technique, based on one game where, arguably, the best QB in football worked all week at, and executed, a game plan based on attacking with anyone except his top two receivers. Given we allocated out top 2 CBs and safety help elsewhere, this plan, executed well, had a good chance against any team, including one with great QB depth.

The Patriots did not adjust. Next week, when a backup CB plays well, the story will be how we have invincible CB depth all the way to the inactive Butler or Dennard. Each story will be a BS over reaction to the previous game and the fans will eat up the writer's "expert" analysis.

 

[UK_Pat37]

Greg A. Bedard ‏@GregABedard 30m30 minutes ago
Watching the technique of outsiders Revis & Browner, and then homegrown CBs, it's obvious Patriots CBs aren't being taught well enough.

Greg A. Bedard ‏@GregABedard 30m30 minutes ago
Most of us have thought that, but this season is confirming it.

Greg A. Bedard ‏@GregABedard 29m29 minutes ago
#boyer

Guess this is going to dominate tomorrow's show with the idiots who will kill BB for not hiring xyz etc etc.

I really think comparing these guys to Revis is a ridiculous statement.

I think we can all admit that the recruitment at that position hasn't been spectacular however; is he going to give sole credit to McCourty who, after huge struggles after a promising rookie year, made the transition to a top five caliber safety?

Like that would ever have to be credited to good coaching (detect the sarcasm).

I don't think there is a problem with coaching.

Comparing DBs to Revis, one of the best to ever play, is a bit over the top. It's 100% a talent issue. Not only that, but the soft style of play we have adapted in the past and the very average pass rush.

 

[RayClay]

Browner is not a great cornerback, by the way. He is a huge aggressive guy who, in a defense with lots of decent talent and a shutdown hall of famer, is an excellent chess piece. Whoever coached him to be 6'4" did an excellent job and some of the other DBs should strive to be taller.

 

[RayClay]

At least that is an actual discussion of technique, so we're moving in the right direction. He still has a ways to go to demonstrate that Ryan made that mistake because he was coached to do it. Couldn't have had just made a mistake? To really prove that you'd either need to see every single non-FA corner making that mistake regularly or you'd need to demonstrate that guys like Dennard and Ryan weren't making those mistakes in their rookie/college years but do now.

Still a long way to go, but it's more convincing that just saying, "they're not as good so the coaching must suck!"

It's great he at least watches football film. that's a cut above other writers.

However, what is it about his background that makes me believe he is an expert on cornerback technique? Did he coach cornerbacks once? Does he know the physical and talent limitations of our CBs in relations to Revis? Does he know the situation an excellent quarterback who sniffed out our game plan and countered it is putting on each individual player on each individual play?

He is way, way out of his area of expertise when he presumes to look at a play, like we all do, and decide not only that he could have coached the player to successfully work a different technique, but also that that play is the culmination of the incompetent coaching of the Patriots staff.

BB probably would like to correct the grammar and word usage of some of these writers (I believe he has said he knows more about writing than they know about football) but he doesn't, because he concentrates on his area of expertise, coaching football.

When you are in a situation where the opposition is high caliber and has practiced and executed a game plan taking advantage of your defensive call, guys will get beat and do their best, even if they look like their technique is poor. They are trying to make up for the disadvantage the game plan has put on them any way they can.