Assuming A Butler Trade, I'm Locked In On Melifonwu

[manxman2601]

I sort of was anyway based upon the reported interest (see my predictions in the contest thread) but this truly excellent RSP analysis has put me over the top.



It's a rational rather a binky-love choice admittedly but there is so much Melifonwu offers.

Versatility? Plays single high (he's compared to Hooker in the video), plays quarters (as do we), you can use him to man up on a TE and I think he can play that LB/S role too. And I wouldn't rule him out of playing CB against some of the bigger WRs.

Length? This video is excellent at illustrating just how much his length helps him. Of particular interest to me was the discussion about how hard he'll be to stiff arm because of that length.

Athleticism: There are two terrific plays that illustrate his range in cover-1, especially the 3rd play they analyse. One of my concerns was that he looked lackadaisical but from this video I'm coming round to the idea it's more that he has easy speed rather than because he's dogging it. I'd still like him to play with more oomph and urgency but I'm starting to think that 's because he's controlled rather than lazy.

Melifonwu can play every safety position, he can play CB and the money backer role. His size and length are planet theory and his athleticism is off the charts (a 4.09 shuttle at 6'4"!). There's a very real chance he goes before 32, assuming that's what we'd get from the Saints, but I've come round to believing that Melifonwu offers as much, if not more, value than any other pick we could take.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Pats have shown serious interest in him no doubt.

Ton to work with. I think he's a solid 2nd but for obvious reasons can see why he'd go 1st. It's gunna be a great draft.

 

[maineman209]

I sort of was anyway based upon the reported interest (see my predictions in the contest thread) but this truly excellent RSP analysis has put me over the top.



It's a rational rather a binky-love choice admittedly but there is so much Melifonwu offers.

Versatility? Plays single high (he's compared to Hooker in the video), plays quarters (as do we), you can use him to man up on a TE and I think he can play that LB/S role too. And I wouldn't rule him out of playing CB against some of the bigger WRs.

Length? This video is excellent at illustrating just how much his length helps him. Of particular interest to me was the discussion about how hard he'll be to stiff arm because of that length.

Athleticism: There are two terrific plays that illustrate his range in cover-1, especially the 3rd play they analyse. One of my concerns was that he looked lackadaisical but from this video I'm coming round to the idea it's more that he has easy speed rather than because he's dogging it. I'd still like him to play with more oomph and urgency but I'm starting to think that 's because he's controlled rather than lazy.

Melifonwu can play every safety position, he can play CB and the money backer role. His size and length are planet theory and his athleticism is off the charts (a 4.09 shuttle at 6'4"!). There's a very real chance he goes before 32, assuming that's what we'd get from the Saints, but I've come round to believing that Melifonwu offers as much, if not more, value than any other pick we could take.

Randy Moss often looked "lazy" running, too. I think it's a thing with some tall long-striders. Some of them increase their speed by lengthening their stride rather than increasing the frequency. Moss used this deliberately to great effect.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Does everybody think butler is going to be traded? Would bb take a second and third rounder for him?

 

[WaterfallJumper]

I sort of was anyway based upon the reported interest (see my predictions in the contest thread) but this truly excellent RSP analysis has put me over the top.



It's a rational rather a binky-love choice admittedly but there is so much Melifonwu offers.

Versatility? Plays single high (he's compared to Hooker in the video), plays quarters (as do we), you can use him to man up on a TE and I think he can play that LB/S role too. And I wouldn't rule him out of playing CB against some of the bigger WRs.

Length? This video is excellent at illustrating just how much his length helps him. Of particular interest to me was the discussion about how hard he'll be to stiff arm because of that length.

Athleticism: There are two terrific plays that illustrate his range in cover-1, especially the 3rd play they analyse. One of my concerns was that he looked lackadaisical but from this video I'm coming round to the idea it's more that he has easy speed rather than because he's dogging it. I'd still like him to play with more oomph and urgency but I'm starting to think that 's because he's controlled rather than lazy.

Melifonwu can play every safety position, he can play CB and the money backer role. His size and length are planet theory and his athleticism is off the charts (a 4.09 shuttle at 6'4"!). There's a very real chance he goes before 32, assuming that's what we'd get from the Saints, but I've come round to believing that Melifonwu offers as much, if not more, value than any other pick we could take.

I think you already know that I'm in lockstep here, but really nice breakdown. Thanks for putting things in a better structure than I did in the other thread.

 

[scott99]

Hopefully Belichick can use some Jedi mind tricks to wind up with Obi. Belichick waves his arm, "this is not the safety you are looking for."

 

[manxman2601]

Does everybody think butler is going to be traded? Would bb take a second and third rounder for him?

I think it might come down to who is on the board. In other words, it might happen on draft night. I think they're comfortable keeping him however. As for a 2nd and 3rd, probably although I don't think BB is overly worried about quantity of picks this year. It's more about quality and who's available.

 

[Gabriel_p94]

Does everybody think butler is going to be traded? Would bb take a second and third rounder for him?

If the trade is for 32 then im fine with melifonwu. But what if the rumors about reuben foster being available at the end of round 1 going into early round 2 is true. Do you guys think we should take him then? If that is the case then i think his value is too high to pass up.

 

[manxman2601]

If the trade is for 32 then im fine with melifonwu. But what if the rumors about reuben foster being available at the end of round 1 going into early round 2 is true. Do you guys think we should take him then? If that is the case then i think his value is too high to pass up.

I'm always concerned about prospects that fall hard. If every other team is passing on him, why would we take him? I fully understand the salivating prospect of pairing Foster and Hightower and would be fine with it if it happened but I also can see why Foster could be a problem. He'll already be in the drug program and his style of football doesn't lend itself to him being available for 16 games a season. As BB says, availability is more important than ability.

 

[maineman209]

I think it might come down to who is on the board. In other words, it might happen on draft night. I think they're comfortable keeping him however. As for a 2nd and 3rd, probably although I don't think BB is overly worried about quantity of picks this year. It's more about quality and who's available.

While I still think that there's a somewhat less than 50% chance that Butler is traded now, if it happens it seems most likely to occur after the start of the 2nd round.

..."The New Orleans Saints have traded the 42nd pick in the NFL draft to the New England Patriots in exchange for cornerback Malcolm Butler. With the 42nd pick in the NFL draft, the New England Patriots have select ...... Wait!, What? ... Correction. The New England Patriots have now traded the 42nd pick in the NFL draft to..."

I think the best the Pats will get for Butler is a mid-2nd (maybe plus a 7th). But I also think it's entirely possible that BB could use that 2nd to trade around for a couple additional mid-round picks.

 

[manxman2601]

While I still think that there's a somewhat less than 50% chance that Butler is traded now, if it happens it seems most likely to occur after the start of the 2nd round.

..."The New Orleans Saints have traded the 42nd pick in the NFL draft to the New England Patriots in exchange for cornerback Malcolm Butler. With the 42nd pick in the NFL draft, the New England Patriots have select ...... Wait!, What? ... Correction. The New England Patriots have now traded the 42nd pick in the NFL draft to..."

I think the best the Pats will get for Butler is a mid-2nd (maybe plus a 7th). But I also think it's entirely possible that BB could use that 2nd to trade around for a couple additional mid-round picks.

Well I certainly think it more likely that both teams are happy waiting until draft day to see who is on the board either ar 32 or 42.

 

[everlong]

I still think Butler is on the team however one could theorize that if a corner the Pats love slides to 32 they pull the trigger and if not they don't. Bill will maximize the value.

 

[captain stone]

Does everybody think butler is going to be traded? Would bb take a second and third rounder for him?

32 + 42 is the Minimum I would accept for Butler; but Bill has done solids for his buddies before, so anything is possible.

And if there is a Butler trade, I'm locked-in on Dion Dawkins or Jordan Willis.

 

[maineman209]

32 + 42 is the Minimum I would accept for Butler; but Bill has done solids for his buddies before, so anything is possible.

And if there is a Butler trade, I'm locked-in on Dion Dawkins or Jordan Willis.

I think that we, as fans, always overestimate what teams are willing to pay. I don't know that BB actually would accept a mid-2nd alone for Butler, but I think that's about all he's going to get.

 

[miloofcroton]

Lots to like about Melifonwu. There's also Adams and Baker at the top of the safety rankings. Hooker is extremely overrated, in my opinion. Dynamic safeties can end up being the best player on some defenses (Ed Reed and Sean Taylor, for instance), and their strategic advantage is that they can be moved nearly anywhere (moreso than any other position), making them almost impossible to avoid as an opposing offense.

For sleeper guys with some similar measurables, there's also Jeremy Clark from Michigan and Brian Allen from Utah. Allen is more of a pure corner, and Clark can seemingly play both like Melifonwu.

With so few resources at the top of the draft, I don't know what you'd rather target, but my first instinct is to go with an edge defender or a man in the secondary.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Lots to like about Melifonwu. There's also Adams and Baker at the top of the safety rankings. Hooker is extremely overrated, in my opinion. Dynamic safeties can end up being the best player on some defenses (Ed Reed and Sean Taylor, for instance), and their strategic advantage is that they can be moved nearly anywhere (moreso than any other position), making them almost impossible to avoid as an opposing offense.

For sleeper guys with some similar measurables, there's also Jeremy Clark from Michigan and Brian Allen from Utah. Allen is more of a pure corner, and Clark can seemingly play both like Melifonwu.

With so few resources at the top of the draft, I don't know what you'd rather target, but my first instinct is to go with an edge defender or a man in the secondary.

Welcome! Good to have new members aboard.

Good thoughts, and I do like Clark and Allen as mid-late round guys with size/speed upside. The focus on Obi, however, is because he could potentially take LB roles, as well as secondary positions. No player quite like him.

 

[miloofcroton]

Thanks! Happy to be here.

----Que philosophical rant---

I'm really interested in what a defense could do if you loaded it with hybrids like Melifonwu and Clark. Obviously, there aren't tons in each draft, but they are also not typically drafted very high. I'm a bit of a former lurker of the boards, and I remember when some people here liked Dexter McCoil when he was coming out. I did too!

There's always a pressure towards specialization on defense, towards the positions that are the status quo, but it's interesting to think about a more homogeneous group of talent that could perform some wacky combinations of responsibilities. Zone, man, blitz... All at once? Zone blitzes have weaknesses, man has weaknesses, and 2 high, 3 high, and 4 high too. What if you built the scheme from the ground up to take advantage of these unique talents. Is there anything else?

I suggested on another forum that maybe you could nearly eliminate the linebacker position and corner position if you focused on playing a physical, zone-based secondary with hybrids and got 4 big guys up front that could rush the passer. Essentially you'd have 4 JJ Watts and 7 Obi Melifonwus in your starting lineup. Your base defense would have enough DBs to handle any number of receivers, so you don't have to think about your nickel defense as something you adapt to from your base 7 man front. I'm interested in what you could do at the NFL level to run a nickel (or more) defense as a base against any personnel. Maybe nothing because teams would load up their FBs/TEs and run power all day, but strategically, that's kind of what I want opposing offenses to think they can do.

It could all be a very dumb idea to lose the great variety of chess pieces that a strategist might want on any given play, but to be fair, it is very hard to be creative in football design.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Thanks! Happy to be here.

----Que philosophical rant---

I'm really interested in what a defense could do if you loaded it with hybrids like Melifonwu and Clark. Obviously, there aren't tons in each draft, but they are also not typically drafted very high. I'm a bit of a former lurker of the boards, and I remember when some people here liked Dexter McCoil when he was coming out. I did too!

There's always a pressure towards specialization on defense, towards the positions that are the status quo, but it's interesting to think about a more homogeneous group of talent that could perform some wacky combinations of responsibilities. Zone, man, blitz... All at once? Zone blitzes have weaknesses, man has weaknesses, and 2 high, 3 high, and 4 high too. What if you built the scheme from the ground up to take advantage of these unique talents. Is there anything else?

I suggested on another forum that maybe you could nearly eliminate the linebacker position and corner position if you focused on playing a physical, zone-based secondary with hybrids and got 4 big guys up front that could rush the passer. Essentially you'd have 4 JJ Watts and 7 Obi Melifonwus in your starting lineup. Your base defense would have enough DBs to handle any number of receivers, so you don't have to think about your nickel defense as something you adapt to from your base 7 man front. I'm interested in what you could do at the NFL level to run a nickel (or more) defense as a base against any personnel. Maybe nothing because teams would load up their FBs/TEs and run power all day, but strategically, that's kind of what I want opposing offenses to think they can do.

It could all be a very dumb idea to lose the great variety of chess pieces that a strategist might want on any given play, but to be fair, it is very hard to be creative in football design.

Seems like a great idea!

Let me know when you find 4 JJ Watts, though.

 

[miloofcroton]

Seems like a great idea!

Let me know when you find 4 JJ Watts, though.

I think if I had to fill out a DL from this draft for that scheme, I'd do:

Malik McDowell
Nazair Jones
Eddie Vanderdoes
Jonathan Allen

I might even look into someone like Daeshon Hall and get him to put on 20 pounds.

Naturally, some of these guys will be high picks, but you don't build a defense in a single year either.

 

[manxman2601]

Zach Whitman has inducted Melifonwu in to the 3 sigma club (Three times more athletic than the average NFL athlete). He joins only JJ Watt, Lane Johnson and Byron Jones still active in the league. Calvin Jones and Evan Mathis were in the club until they retired.

Inducting (Another) New 3-Sigma Athlete