2nd round and possible trade idea

[mayoclinic]

Looking at the Pats roster as it currently stands, there are not a huge number of holes and not a lot of room for late round developmental guys. But there are a number of areas where we could use quality players with the long-term potential to be starters, to either fill holes or significantly upgrade the starting roster. I count at least 7 (even assuming that we extend Wilfork and Mankins, and assuming that our current CBs develop well and cover that position, which is by no means obvious):

- WR: need a flanker next to Moss and Welker, and possibly to eventually take over from Moss as the #1 guy in a few years

- OT: Light will 31 when TC starts. Kaczsur will be 30, and is upgradeable at RT. A potential long-term starter at OT would not be a bad thing. Kaczur could then become a rotation guy (like Sanders at S and Guyton at ILB).

- OG/C: need someone who can take over as starter from Stephen Neal in a year or two

- DE: I think Seymour is the most likely of the big 3 guys next year to leave in FA. Even if we keep him, a quality rotational 3-4 DE guy would be nice.

- OLB: We clearly need a young 3-4 OLB with pass rushing ability to start opposite AD.

- ILB: A starting calibre SILB next to Mayo would be great, with Guyton as a rotational guy backing up both ILB spots and coming in on long downs.

- S: We need a solid starting calibre S opposite Meriweather, with Sanders backing up both and getting significant playing time. Sanders is adequate as a stop-gap starter, but nothing more.

And that doesn't even include TE, where Watson and Thomas are FAs after 2009.

With the 2009 draft so deep, I can see the benefit of using as many of our 1st day picks as possible. If anything, I would like more of them. I see us using our 4 picks on 4 of those 7 areas, possibly trading around within the 1st to rounds to maximize value. For my money, I would like to get as many as possible of the following guys: William Beatty OT, Connor Barwin OLB, Robert Ayers DE/LB, Hakeem Nicks WR, Louis Delmas S, Sean Smith CB/S, Jarron Gilbert DE, Alex Mack OG/C and Eric Wood OG/C. My backup options include Eben Britton OT, Clay Matthews OLB, Larry English DE/LB, Clint Sintim LB, Patrick Chung S, and William Moore S.

One off the cuff thought: if we somehow sign Jason Taylor, we will have more OLBs than we can possibly use. Taylor and Adalius Thomas would be the starters in 2009. Shawn Crable and a 1st day rookie would be the future starters, leaving only one spot open, with a logjam consisting of Pierre Woods, Tully Banta-Cain, and Vince Redd. Might we consider trading Woods? He is tendered at a 2nd pick as an RFA. We might be able to get a 3rd round for him given the number of teams going to a 3-4.

Here's one scenario: We sign Taylor and trade Woods to Denver for their 3rd round pick (#79). Denver puts Woods and Jarvis Moss at OLB, which is probably a better combo then they would get using #79 in the draft. We then package #79 and #89 (worth 340 points together) and trade them to old friend Tom Dimitroff for #55 (350 points) or Bill Parcels for #56 (340 points), and use #55/56 either to trade into 2010 or to target one of the guys listed above.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

I was rolling along until I saw the 'woods for a 3rd rounder'

I thought you were serious

 

[BradyManny]

With the 2009 draft so deep, I can see the benefit of using as many of our 1st day picks as possible. If anything, I would like more of them. I see us using our 4 picks on 4 of those 7 areas, possibly trading around within the 1st to rounds to maximize value. For my money, I would like to get as many as possible of the following guys: William Beatty OT, Connor Barwin OLB, Robert Ayers DE/LB, Hakeem Nicks WR, Louis Delmas S, Sean Smith CB/S, Jarron Gilbert DE, Alex Mack OG/C and Eric Wood OG/C. My backup options include Eben Britton OT, Clay Matthews OLB, Larry English DE/LB, Clint Sintim LB, Patrick Chung S, and William Moore S.

One off the cuff thought: if we somehow sign Jason Taylor, we will have more OLBs than we can possibly use. Taylor and Adalius Thomas would be the starters in 2009. Shawn Crable and a 1st day rookie would be the future starters, leaving only one spot open, with a logjam consisting of Pierre Woods, Tully Banta-Cain, and Vince Redd. Might we consider trading Woods? He is tendered at a 2nd pick as an RFA. We might be able to get a 3rd round for him given the number of teams going to a 3-4.

Interesting thoughts, as usual. I would propose something different though - if we do sign J Taylor, I would want to see a base D lineup w Taylor and Woods outside w AD and Mayo inside. And as we talked about before Vrabel was traded, you could do this and then take Woods off the field on 3rd downs and move AD back outside.

And in doing that, you bolster perhaps the most glaring area of need (SILB) while retaining a starting caliber player (Woods).

In theory though I see what you are getting at. Roster spots are going to be hard-fought this year. I would apply your reasoning to a different ends. I'm seeing us looking good at developmental prospects at a number of positions, and I think the 5th, 6th, 7th rounds for us this draft are going to be guys who would have trouble making the roster at traditional positions. I would use anything past round 4 to either move up, move out, or target a player w special teams person, like they did w Slater last year. They already used a 5th for Lewis, so I think we're seeing that in motion.

 

[mayoclinic]

I was rolling along until I saw the 'woods for a 3rd rounder'

I thought you were serious

I am serious about stockpiling talent in this draft. I'd like as many of those guys as possible.

The Woods thing was just an off the cuff thought to throw out there. Don't expect anything like that to happen. But we do have a lot of OLBs, just not enough starting calibre ones. Woods is solid but nothing more. If someone were to sign him, I'd take the 2nd round pick in a flash given the depth in this draft, especially if we can plug in a veteran starter like Taylor and upgrade both our starters and our long-term developmental talent at the position at the same time.

 

[mayoclinic]

Interesting thoughts, as usual. I would propose something different though - if we do sign J Taylor, I would want to see a base D lineup w Taylor and Woods outside w AD and Mayo inside. And as we talked about before Vrabel was traded, you could do this and then take Woods off the field on 3rd downs and move AD back outside.

And in doing that, you bolster perhaps the most glaring area of need (SILB) while retaining a starting caliber player (Woods).

In theory though I see what you are getting at. Roster spots are going to be hard-fought this year. I would apply your reasoning to a different ends. I'm seeing us looking good at developmental prospects at a number of positions, and I think the 5th, 6th, 7th rounds for us this draft are going to be guys who would have trouble making the roster at traditional positions. I would use anything past round 4 to either move up, move out, or target a player w special teams person, like they did w Slater last year. They already used a 5th for Lewis, so I think we're seeing that in motion.

That's an extremely feasible plan, and probably more realistic than what I was proposing. I was deliberately pushing the "get as many of these guys as possible" thought. Signing Taylor would clearly be an upgrade from Woods as a starter. Replacing Woods with Barwin or Matthews would clearly be a long-term upgrade. Trading him would allow us to do both, and use the extra pick on another area of need.

Again, it was intended as an "out there" suggestion. Your plan is clearly more likely, and very sensible.

 

[WhiZa]

I think the Patriots like Woods better than Taylor because he's cheaper and also plays ST.

 

[mayoclinic]

I think the Patriots like Woods better than Taylor because he's cheaper and also plays ST.

That sounds too sensible and realistic to possibly be true.

 

[Metaphors]

- OLB: We clearly need a young 3-4 OLB with pass rushing ability to start opposite AD.

I was with you until OLB. I think the Pats have a bunch of young 3-4 OLB with pass rushing ability. The reason why they couldn't get on the field was that Vrabel was invaluable (my opinion) on rush defense.

If the Pats are going to add another OLB, I would expect a Mayo type that can stay on the field. Someone that doesn't get washed out constantly by a TE, FB or pulling guard. Chicks dig the pass rush (was going to use "sack" in that sentence but it sounded dirty), but if you want someone starting opposite AD they better be able to deal with the run first. That is harder to find in a 3-4 OLB. Hybrid rush linebackers are a dime-a-dozen.

 

[JSn]

Hard to picture Taylor as a 3 down OLB. Maybe, but I think he burns out if that happens.

 

[cstjohn17]

I haven't looked at the specifics but to me the biggest loss of the Cassel trade was not getting a first rounder. Pick 32 is much different than Pick 34 because of the five year contract length. In general most of the players between 20-40 are about the same. I would be ok with using a 3rd or 4th rounder to move up to the top of round 1 so that they Pats would get 2 high quality players locked up for five years.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Looking at the Pats roster as it currently stands, there are not a huge number of holes and not a lot of room for late round developmental guys. But there are a number of areas where we could use quality players with the long-term potential to be starters, to either fill holes or significantly upgrade the starting roster. I count at least 7 (even assuming that we extend Wilfork and Mankins, and assuming that our current CBs develop well and cover that position, which is by no means obvious):

- WR: need a flanker next to Moss and Welker, and possibly to eventually take over from Moss as the #1 guy in a few years

- OT: Light will 31 when TC starts. Kaczsur will be 30, and is upgradeable at RT. A potential long-term starter at OT would not be a bad thing. Kaczur could then become a rotation guy (like Sanders at S and Guyton at ILB).

- OG/C: need someone who can take over as starter from Stephen Neal in a year or two

- DE: I think Seymour is the most likely of the big 3 guys next year to leave in FA. Even if we keep him, a quality rotational 3-4 DE guy would be nice.

- OLB: We clearly need a young 3-4 OLB with pass rushing ability to start opposite AD.

- ILB: A starting calibre SILB next to Mayo would be great, with Guyton as a rotational guy backing up both ILB spots and coming in on long downs.

- S: We need a solid starting calibre S opposite Meriweather, with Sanders backing up both and getting significant playing time. Sanders is adequate as a stop-gap starter, but nothing more.

And that doesn't even include TE, where Watson and Thomas are FAs after 2009.

So, what you're saying; out of this draft NE needs developmental projects at WR, both OT slots, RG, DE, S, and probably TE, with rookie starters at ILB and OLB? And the only place to address this is Day One?

 

[mayoclinic]

So, what you're saying; out of this draft NE needs developmental projects at WR, both OT slots, RG, DE, S, and probably TE, with rookie starters at ILB and OLB? And the only place to address this is Day One?

Who ever said anything about the only place to address this being day 1? But in a deep draft, I wouldn't mind hitting on as many as possible on the first day.

 

[iapatsfan]

Why do people in this forum think any team would give us anything for Woods? He has never shown anything other than being a well below avg LB.

 

[mayoclinic]

Why do people in this forum think any team would give us anything for Woods? He has never shown anything other than being a well below avg LB.

I don't know if anyone would or not. It was intended to be an "out there" idea to generate some discussion.

As for Woods, he's an excellent STer, solid rotational LB, and filled in adequately briefly last season. Given the number of teams going to a 3-4 and the paucity of 3-4 OLBs, I presume he may have some value. There's far worse out there.

 

[billdog3484]

i posted something very similar last night

 

[woolster22]

I think we'll see a 1st round LB/DE, and second round OT, and DE/LB. These are the three biggest problems in my eyes, and I wouldn't expect us to snag a wr/cb until late. We have what, 5? cb's on the roster right now (excluding the safeties)...I don't think BB and Co. would place a huge need on one of those runts unless he had big-time return potential. Wouldn't be surprised to see Slater take a hike if we draft a WR as I'd bet he'd be another quick s.o.b. with a return game. I cringe whenever Wes gets lit up on a return, he takes enough shots as it is. I wouldn't mind seeing us move up into the middle-late 1st with a 2nd and a later pick to go after either another o/d lineman or a linebacker. With any luck 1/3 or 1+st'er/4 of the day one picks will play solid this year, with 2/3 or 2+sub/4 contributing well by year 3...that would be one hell of a haul if you ask me.

 

[carolinatony]

I hope we get a solid pass rushing OLB and a OT. After that I'll be happy with anything BB wants.
We should trade down 2 picks for next year and trade a few up to get two solid players this year. I hate to see us just grab players if there no chance they make the team.
It will be a exciting draft this year.

 

[Revman]

I still see more value in trading #34 overall for Peppers. Might take another pick-maybe a 4. Seymour is the most expendable after this season. Wilfork is much needed . Warren has more years in the tank. Jason Taylor would be an upgrade over Woods for sure-but that is a one year type thing. Peppers can go for 4-5 years. If Pat's can land Peppers they can focus on ILB/DE/ Alex Mack-or a wr. I still believe that ILB is the most needed position because of age-no depth. Darry Beckwith in rd 2 is versatile enough to play in this defense, with starters upside. There will be a couple of names like Maroney and Watson that could be moved for cap space.

 

[iapatsfan]

I don't know if anyone would or not. It was intended to be an "out there" idea to generate some discussion.

As for Woods, he's an excellent STer, solid rotational LB, and filled in adequately briefly last season. Given the number of teams going to a 3-4 and the paucity of 3-4 OLBs, I presume he may have some value. There's far worse out there.

He is not an excellent STer by any stretch. Filled in adequately???? Our pass rush from the OLB position was horrible. I don't think GM's would trade a pack of gum for this guy.

 

[alvinnf]

This is crazy talk, the problem with tading down up and around, you gotta have somewhere to put these newly acquired players. Last year we had to mystery IR acouple guys just to get a better looksie this year. I love the idea of finding the nugget of gold in the stream like everybody else. So why don't get acouple of real nice nuggets up high. Then we take some coal or shale or whatever down low, we watch em love em, pre season ends and we just focus on our gold.

Who the hell is givin us a third for Pierre Woods.... Hold on to the damn ball Pierre.........