If you were Bill, the first 3 things you would do this offseason are...?

Ring 6 said:

Imagine if he had listened, we might have won a Sb or 2

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BB is the GOAT as a coach, he and his staff can take an average player or take a player off the scrap heap and coach them up well enough to compete for super bowls. Ive never been a fan of his drafting, i am a fan of his work putting a team together. So for me its not his drafting its his coaching that has won so many super bowls. It just didn't work out this year.

KontradictioN said:

DRAFT - BGC 2021 Pre-Draft/Patriot-Type Prospect(s) thread

www.patsfans.com

I discuss my impressions of the DT class starting here.

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Thanks Kontra!!!

The first 3 things I would do?
===================
Other folks seem to think that choosing scouts or drafting are the first things that we need to do. For me those are far, far from my mind.
===================
THE SEASON STARTS ON MARCH 17
1) Negotiate contracts which 'minor" players, especially with free agents, but also with others. Between now and March 1st is time to extend low hanging fruit. I think of players like Folk, and Byrd.
2) Decide which of the more important free agents you want to keep, and start to negotiate with and sign who you can. Bill needs to make decisions on lots and lot of players.
3) Decide on franchise tags and levels of RFA tags.
4) When it becomes legal (and likely before, negotiate for the services of a veteran QB who will be our 2011 starter.

1. Vet TE/WR pay for proven talent there. Hunter Henry would work! Maybe Jonnu Smith.
2. Draft a QB, get a vet placeholder...I wouldn't spend a lot on a vet QB unless Jimmy G parted ways with SF, and even then, it's prove-you-can-stay-healthy time. Not sold on Stafford or any of the others for any real money.
3. Bulk up DL with a vet or two and the draft.

Or, ideally,
1. Trade Cam Newton for Patrick Mahomes.
2. Trade Izzo for Kittle.
3. Trade Simon for Aaron Donald.

(Although I'm sure many here would hate those moves.)

ensoul said:

BB is lucky to hit on one guy in the draft per season.

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Untrue...when he has #1 picks not taken by the league - especially ones not at the end of the draft - his success rate is very good. It's when he's at the end of the draft and doesn't see huge difference in players in the thirties/forties that he trades down to get more draft capital.

mgteich said:

I think that this true and irrelevant.

I agree that the patriots shouldn't wait for their pick and choose a QB with the same talent as 2nd rounder. If they like one of the top 5, then they should trade up to get him, if possible.

The test, as it was for many teams this year is whether the player has the potential to be a top 10 quarterback. Other than the top 2, I would expect the QB NOT to start for Game 1, while he learns behind a solid veteran.

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Except that you won't know until you get that person into the building and work for a while with him if he will actually work out.

There have been more #1 picked QB busts than successful players while the "experts" were telling us every year that the floor of those players is a good NFL starter. Hell, there have been more bad QB picks in the top 10 than successful ones.

Trading up from the low teens into the top 5 is prohibitively expensive and will cost you more than one draft. Unless you are getting HoF material in return for this it is simply not worth it relative to how you put yourself into a tight spot in terms of roster building and more importantly depth for about two years.

If you have a top 3-5 pick and need a QB then you obviously try to get your hands onto that alleged generational talent. If you are drafting outside that bubble your best bet is to try to get whoever you like most of the second wave of QBs and develop that player. That can be at the end of the second round or third round. The gap between those second wave QBs is generally not that big as all of them need to sit 1-2 years and learn and you get to decide which of the individual characteristics you like most about them (e.g. it could be big hands for all I care).

Again this is an optimization problem where you want to get out of the draft improving as many positions as possible. In other words it is all about value.

ChrisR2223 said:

I would trade a high pick for a veteran impacting pass rusher.

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All the holes this team has - rushing the passer isn't one of them. Teams are in third and short every series with the current run defense meaning pass rushers are irrelevant. You have a good secondary - bolster that strength by getting DLs that can increase the numbers of third and longs by better controlling the opposing teams' running game to unleash the pass rushers they already have in Butler, Wino and Uche.

luuked said:

This year has not shown any of that. If your lesson from this season is that QB was the biggest issue then I am not sure you have watched the correct games.

Getting a DT that could stabilize the run game the same way someone like Wilfork did would be a much bigger relative improvement than any QB you will be able to get at #15. Most of those QBs who will be available at that spot will still be available in the second round and maybe even in the third (that is if we had a third round pick and it wasn't forfeited thanks to Kraft Media).

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Excuse me, did you pay attention to the statistics this past season?

New England Defense
Yards allowed Passing 3318. 221 y/g. 7th overall in the NFL
Yards allowed Rushing 1992. 4.5ypc. 16th in the NFL.

New England Offense
Passing yards 2863 29th in the NFL. Passing TDs 8. 32nd in the NFL.
Rushing yards 2180 5th in the NFL. Rushing TDs 20. 5th in the NFL.

Stats from NFL.com: 2020 NFL offense passing stats by Team | NFL.com

HELLO?? Earth to Luuked?
The Patriots did have a pedestrian run defense. Very Mediocre, in fact average.
But their passing offense was downright PUTRID! Worst in the league in passing TDs, 3rd worst in passing yards.

If you look at those stats and conclude they need a DT more than a QB... I just can't help you.

BB won a Superbowl with a 35 year old Ted Washington. But he had Brady at QB.
Listen to me, I'm not trying to mislead you. This is not a TRICK! In the NFL you win Superbowl Titles with Great QBs, not DTs.

If you told me at #11 I could have a choice between Group A: Young Seymour, Young JJ Watt, Young Aaron Donald and Group B: Young Aaron Rodgers, Young Drew Brees, Young Russell Wilson, I'm gonna pick group B every single time! Sorry, that's just how the NFL works!

mgteich said:

The first 3 things I would do?
===================
Other folks seem to think that choosing scouts or drafting are the first things that we need to do. For me those are far, far from my mind.
===================
THE SEASON STARTS ON MARCH 17
1) Negotiate contracts which 'minor" players, especially with free agents, but also with others. Between now and March 1st is time to extend low hanging fruit. I think of players like Folk, and Byrd.
2) Decide which of the more important free agents you want to keep, and start to negotiate with and sign who you can. Bill needs to make decisions on lots and lot of players.
3) Decide on franchise tags and levels of RFA tags.
4) When it becomes legal (and likely before, negotiate for the services of a veteran QB who will be our 2011 starter.

Click to expand...

All of this except the vet QB question is boring procedural stuff that will happen anyway.

I am not surprised that most people understand your phrasing "first the 3 things" not literally as in chronologically but what the most important moves of the offseason are. It makes more sense to talk about the big picture than about extensions for Folk or Byrd. Those are puzzle pieces..

Go a tv and Apologize to Brady and the fans that still support the GOAT for not letting him retire a patriot

VJCPatriot said:

If you look at those stats and conclude they need a DT more than a QB

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That's not the question. The question is can you get a franchise QB where the Pats are picking vs a franchise NT/DT where the Pats are picking?

Now maybe you would mortgage a ton of flexibility to get that QB by moving up, but that's as much as a crap shoot especially given BB's record of choosing IMPACT DTs and LBs when picking high is pretty damn good historically (Wilfork, Seymour, etc)...right?

If they had the #1, 2 or 3 pick - no argument with your assertion, but they don't. Getting to that level in this draft would leave the team unable to address most of its other holes and make them extremely vulnerable to injury next year without depth as well.

TomPatriot said:

Get Directors of Pro Personnel and College Scouting.
Do a longer, more comprehensive seasonal evaluation than ever before.
Look at a ton of college and pro film.

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I think the Wikipedia page is misleading a lot of people on what's going on there. The Director of Pro Personnel is listed as vacant, when really the same guy has a new title of Assistant Director of Player Personnel to reflect that he assumed some of the prior Director of College Scouting duties in addition to his prior pro personnel role. I mean, Wikipedia didn't list the Assistant Director of Player Personnel job as vacant every year between 2002 (Jason Licht) and 2020. Just take it off the page when the job has clearly been filled by a different title.

Wolf and Ossenfort overlapped by a few months, but they're right back where they were in February (prior to Wolf being hired) in terms of both quantity and overall experience. As we know, Belichick likes to stick those generic labels on guys like Lombardi and Bielema without telling us what they're actually doing. I imagine we'll see some title reshuffling if Wolf (and everybody else) stick around long enough to make it into next year's media guide.

Also, somebody really needs to update that page to reflect that Brian Smith is in his ninth season as college scouting coordinator. It still lists his prior title.

VJCPatriot said:

Excuse me, did you pay attention to the statistics this past season?

New England Defense
Yards allowed Passing 3318. 221 y/g. 7th overall in the NFL
Yards allowed Rushing 1992. 4.5ypc. 16th in the NFL.

New England Offense
Passing yards 2863 29th in the NFL. Passing TDs 8. 32nd in the NFL.
Rushing yards 2180 5th in the NFL. Rushing TDs 20. 5th in the NFL.

Stats from NFL.com: 2020 NFL offense passing stats by Team | NFL.com

HELLO?? Earth to Luuked?
The Patriots did have a pedestrian run defense. Very Mediocre, in fact average.
But their passing offense was downright PUTRID! Worst in the league in passing TDs, 3rd worst in passing yards.

If you look at those stats and conclude they need a DT more than a QB... I just can't help you.

BB won a Superbowl with a 35 year old Ted Washington. But he had Brady at QB.
Listen to me, I'm not trying to mislead you. This is not a TRICK! In the NFL you win Superbowl Titles with Great QBs, not DTs.

If you told me at #11 I could have a choice between Group A: Young Seymour, Young JJ Watt, Young Aaron Donald and Group B: Young Aaron Rodgers, Young Drew Brees, Young Russell Wilson, I'm gonna pick group B every single time! Sorry, that's just how the NFL works!

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I don't give a **** about stats. What I did see -- especially in the last two months -- is that opponents were running at us at will. We stopped the bleeding for a game or two when we signed Carl Davis and went straight back to it when he got knocked out with a concussion. Guy is a great interior player but he is not a classic run stuffer. Similarly Adam Butler is a good interior rusher but not a three down player.

But sure if you prefer to look at stats you can group up with those other folks that post some meaningless summary statistics about the OL and keep claiming that the OL was playing fine when in reality they were as responsible for the abysmal offense as the QB and the skill position players were.

Finally, I never said they need a DT more than a QB. I said odds are that the DT they might be able to get in the low teens will have a much bigger impact on the overall team than a QB they can get at #15. Mostly because the QBs that will be available at #15 will most likely still be there in the second round or whenever the second wave of QBs will start going off the board.

1) Institute a No Nepotism policy for all non-Krafts
2) Remove "QB Keeper" from page 1 of the call sheet
3) Hire a mascot to be the "great locker room presence"

Re-Sign Newton
Re-Sign Byrd
Re-Sign Eluemanor
Let the other 18 free agents test the market.

reflexblue said:

BB is the GOAT as a coach, he and his staff can take an average player or take a player off the scrap heap and coach them up well enough to compete for super bowls. Ive never been a fan of his drafting, i am a fan of his work putting a team together. So for me its not his drafting its his coaching that has won so many super bowls. It just didn't work out this year.

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It’s all of it.

Jimke said:

Re-Sign Newton
Re-Sign Byrd
Re-Sign Eluemanor
Let the other 18 free agents test the market.

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What are you doing with newton making him a TE?

luuked said:

Except that you won't know until you get that person into the building and work for a while with him if he will actually work out.

There have been more #1 picked QB busts than successful players while the "experts" were telling us every year that the floor of those players is a good NFL starter. Hell, there have been more bad QB picks in the top 10 than successful ones.

Trading up from the low teens into the top 5 is prohibitively expensive and will cost you more than one draft. Unless you are getting HoF material in return for this it is simply not worth it relative to how you put yourself into a tight spot in terms of roster building and more importantly depth for about two years.

If you have a top 3-5 pick and need a QB then you obviously try to get your hands onto that alleged generational talent. If you are drafting outside that bubble your best bet is to try to get whoever you like most of the second wave of QBs and develop that player. That can be at the end of the second round or third round. The gap between those second wave QBs is generally not that big as all of them need to sit 1-2 years and learn and you get to decide which of the individual characteristics you like most about them (e.g. it could be big hands for all I care).

Again this is an optimization problem where you want to get out of the draft improving as many positions as possible. In other words it is all about value.

Click to expand...

luuked said:

All of this except the vet QB question is boring procedural stuff that will happen anyway.

I am not surprised that most people understand your phrasing "first the 3 things" not literally as in chronologically but what the most important moves of the offseason are. It makes more sense to talk about the big picture than about extensions for Folk or Byrd. Those are puzzle pieces..

Click to expand...

Ok, congrats to all of you who know who we should draft before we know who we will re-sign and who we will sign in free agency.

I suppose that I should just state the obvious. We need a help at QB, receiver, and the DL. I guess that needs to be stated. I think that almost everyone posting here knows that.

mgteich said:

So, we should make believe that it is just as likely to get a franchise quarterback in the 2nd or 6th as it is in the first half of the 1st round?

Just take another 4th round shot, and when that fails (as is most likely), we can say that franhcise QB's have been found in the 4th.

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Per usual, MG, the point goes right over your head.

It was already shown that it was nearly a 50/50 split in terms of QBs drafted in the top half of the 1st round and QBs drafted everywhere else in terms of SB wins.

It's been proven that taking a 1st round QB outside the top 16 is just as likely to get you a franchise QB as taking one in the top 16.

It's not "make believe" when it's actual fact..

If you'd like, I can list off all the failed top 16 QBs in the last 10 years for you if you really need me to drive the point home....

Jimke said:

Re-Sign Newton
Re-Sign Byrd
Re-Sign Eluemanor
Let the other 18 free agents test the market.

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NO. YES. NO.

Eleumenor is not worth re-signing. Neither is Newton., God no.

Thuney, Bird, Moncrief, Guy. Beyond that, there will be plenty of midling talent to pick from.