2019 UDFA’s

luuked said:

Binkie mode activated.

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Yup. Busy drawing up WR pass plays this morning for submission to BB. Julian, hold Jakobi’s beer, please.

Angelpats said:

Just saying but some of the best wrs and dbs don’t run a 4.3 40. We have made our picks so let’s see how they work out. This was a good draft, can’t be worse than last year when only one drafted player actually played.

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The idea that only one player from last class played has little to do with evaluation of draft class itself - since most players were lost to injuries (6 out of 9). Its also wrong.

From the 3 that remained (relatively) healthy and available only Etling didn't contribute - drafted as #3 developmental QB in the 7th round him being inactive is actually a positive thing.

From the 2 that did play Sony was the cornerstone of ultimate success (despite also being injured) and Crossen was a cornerstone of improved ST in the second part of the season while also seeing some DB snaps. He was pick #243.

And lets not forget JC Jackson who belongs to this class as an UDFA (BB always sees it this way) who stepped up in a major way to solidify problems at #2 CB. That would be the equivalent of the second round pick id guess.

From the players lost to injury Bentley actually earned his spot as a starting LB and showed glimpses of next LB stud and defensive leader - the next Mayo - now groomed by Mayo himself. If his development goes as started this can be an equivalent of a first round pick.

I still believe in Duke Dawson as integral chess piece of best secondary in football despite the JoJu pick. To me these are two strong DB picks for the future, both different in characteristics, both very versatile and matchup friendly.

Sam entered the core ST rotation before injury took him away, Izzo showed some serious blocking for a rookie TE in preseason and Berrios certainly deserves time to develop like Jules did so hopefully he can remain healthy from now on.

Last but not least, Pats highest pick Isaiah Wynn is clearly projected to start at LT (given they let Mount Brown go and did not pick one of the top OT).
______

To me it was an amazing 2018 Draft for NE and still is. I actually prefer it to this year. In a weaker class they managed to get 2 elite prospects/players and at least 2-3 more core starters for 2019. It will be quite a challenge for 2019 class to provide that - esp. in the elite category.

In addition to all these players - they managed to add 3 more 2019 Draft picks: a 2nd rounder (roughly) used on JoJu Williams, a high 3rd rounder (roughly) used on Winovich and a 7th rounder.
______


Considering all that 2018 might be one of best drafting games BB or anyone else ever played:

1st round pick (23rd overall): Isaiah Wynn, offensive lineman, Georgia
1st round pick (31st overall): Sony Michel, running back, Georgia
2nd round pick (56th overall): Duke Dawson, cornerback, Florida
5th round pick (143rd overall): Ja’whaun Bentley, linebacker, Purdue
6th round pick (178th overall): Christian Sam, linebacker, Arizona State
6th round pick (210th overall) Braxton Berrios, wide receiver, Miami
7th round pick (219th overall): Danny Etling, quarterback, LSU
7th round pick (243rd overall) Keion Crossen, cornerback, Western Carolina
7th round pick (250th overall) Ryan Izzo, tight end, Florida State
UDFA -- JC Jackson
+
2019 2nd rd pick #56 (CHI)
2019 3rd rd pick #73 (DET)
2019 7th

luuked said:

Because most probably he didn't watch any film until after he saw the absolutely meaningless combine numbers and then went to look for things to confirm his opinion.

The fact that people obsess about absolutely pointless things like the 40 yard time is one of the remaining big mysteries when it comes to NFL fandom. Care enough to look the times up but too lazy to thing beyond stats. It is like the definition of cold reading.

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This is a common 40 time for some posters:

Clonamery said:

This is a common 40 time for some posters:

View attachment 23263

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Well played, sir!

"Olde English"? However did they come up with that name?

Mike the Brit said:

Well played, sir!

"Olde English"? However did they come up with that name?

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I believe it went something like this...

Taster#1: Ew, this **** tastes right old.
Taster#2: We’ll have to up the ABV.
Taster#1: What the feck will we call this swill?
Taster#2: Somethin’ classy.
Taster#1: How about, Not Bile.
Taster#2: Ha! Might as well say, Gutter Face Plant or Straight Piss.
Taster#1: You know who’s classy? Shakespeare, and that English actor gay guy.
Taster#2: Olivier?
Taster#1: Cary Grant.
Taster#2: We’d get sued. Right, how about simply, Old English?
Taster#1: Ye old English.
Taster#2: Olde English.
Taster#1: The taste of the Middle Ages.

Mack Herron said:

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Powerful.

long distance said:

The idea that only one player from last class played has little to do with evaluation of draft class itself - since most players were lost to injuries (6 out of 9). Its also wrong.

From the 3 that remained (relatively) healthy and available only Etling didn't contribute - drafted as #3 developmental QB in the 7th round him being inactive is actually a positive thing.

From the 2 that did play Sony was the cornerstone of ultimate success (despite also being injured) and Crossen was a cornerstone of improved ST in the second part of the season while also seeing some DB snaps. He was pick #243.

And lets not forget JC Jackson who belongs to this class as an UDFA (BB always sees it this way) who stepped up in a major way to solidify problems at #2 CB. That would be the equivalent of the second round pick id guess.

From the players lost to injury Bentley actually earned his spot as a starting LB and showed glimpses of next LB stud and defensive leader - the next Mayo - now groomed by Mayo himself. If his development goes as started this can be an equivalent of a first round pick.

I still believe in Duke Dawson as integral chess piece of best secondary in football despite the JoJu pick. To me these are two strong DB picks for the future, both different in characteristics, both very versatile and matchup friendly.

Sam entered the core ST rotation before injury took him away, Izzo showed some serious blocking for a rookie TE in preseason and Berrios certainly deserves time to develop like Jules did so hopefully he can remain healthy from now on.

Last but not least, Pats highest pick Isaiah Wynn is clearly projected to start at LT (given they let Mount Brown go and did not pick one of the top OT).
______

To me it was an amazing 2018 Draft for NE and still is. I actually prefer it to this year. In a weaker class they managed to get 2 elite prospects/players and at least 2-3 more core starters for 2019. It will be quite a challenge for 2019 class to provide that - esp. in the elite category.

In addition to all these players - they managed to add 3 more 2019 Draft picks: a 2nd rounder (roughly) used on JoJu Williams, a high 3rd rounder (roughly) used on Winovich and a 7th rounder.
______


Considering all that 2018 might be one of best drafting games BB or anyone else ever played:

1st round pick (23rd overall): Isaiah Wynn, offensive lineman, Georgia
1st round pick (31st overall): Sony Michel, running back, Georgia
2nd round pick (56th overall): Duke Dawson, cornerback, Florida
5th round pick (143rd overall): Ja’whaun Bentley, linebacker, Purdue
6th round pick (178th overall): Christian Sam, linebacker, Arizona State
6th round pick (210th overall) Braxton Berrios, wide receiver, Miami
7th round pick (219th overall): Danny Etling, quarterback, LSU
7th round pick (243rd overall) Keion Crossen, cornerback, Western Carolina
7th round pick (250th overall) Ryan Izzo, tight end, Florida State
UDFA -- JC Jackson
+
2019 2nd rd pick #56 (CHI)
2019 3rd rd pick #73 (DET)
2019 7th

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I wish I could tap "WINNER" 10 times on this post. Last year's draft/UDFA group for the Pats was as good as anything I've ever seen, and that's with three of the best potentials - Wynn, Bentley, and Dawson - gone. Sam, too.

scott99 said:

Checkmate indeed.....NOT. Did you watch any film on the guy ? Besides the lack of speed being a negative, I noticed he is VERY handsy, which with the new PATRIOT’S rule (they only mentioned a play in the SB for the new rule) Williams will be a yellow flag machine. May be able to get away with that in college, but not in the NFL anymore. Also noticed, he has the “doesn’t turn around for the ball disease”, which plagued many bad Patriot’s DBs in the past. I love our DBs now, we are well stocked, therefore I hated the move, missing out on key offensive weapons this team needs, especially in an elite TE class, especially at the top end.

If the Pats were trading up for a CB, the only one worth trading up for at that moment, was Greedy Williams, Who is also big, but a much better athlete who depends on his speed, 6’2” 185 and ran a 4.37. Which would allow him to cover all types of receivers. Nowhere but on the Pat’s draft board, was Williams rated above Greedy Williams. Not surprisingly, Greedy went the pick after JoeJuan.

Look, I’m a Patriot’s fan first, I’ll be rooting for JoeJuan like crazy, I hope he becomes the next Gilmore. But I don’t see it. I am thinking, even at 4.55 speed (improved from 4.6), best case scenario, he switches to safety. Which will be a big need with McCourty and Chung getting up there in years.

But it wasn’t needed THIS year. And I thought it was a bad move, especially with key elite offensive weapons still there and needed.

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Sorry, Scott, but there is so much wrong with your post it's ridiculous.

- It's not the new "Patriots" rule. And no, the only play mentioned wasn't the one from the SB

- Williams won't be a yellow flag machine. Unless you've suddenly become clairvoyant..

- Your claim that JoeJuan Williams was only rated above Greedy Williams on the Pats board is BOGUS and the draft is proof. Hell, teams had other CBs rated above Greedy. That should tell you right there that your statement is wrong.

- I noticed that while mentioning that Greedy went right after JoeJuan, you failed to mention that he went to the Browns. Not exactly the best example to use.

- Jonathan Jones, our normal slot corner, is only on a 1 year deal. The nice thing about JoeJuan is that he has the agility to play in the slot.

- Clearly you've forgotten how the Patriots grade players. They grade them by where they are and what they feel they will become. Clearly they felt Williams will become a starting level player sooner than anyone else on the board. They have never EVER drafted strictly on need.

- As others have mentioned and you seem to have ignored, the Patriots have had some issues covering TEs.. Williams gives them the kind of player who can do that. And, from what I've seen, he gets his head around a lot more than Greedy Williams does when in coverage.. That was what stood out to me in all the "highlights" that were shown of the two..

Deus Irae said:

So, are we now going to pretend we don't care about 40 times, after all these years? If JoeJuan had run a 4.29, it's likely that not one of you would be dismissing the time, or comparing it to bust CBs.

Instead of going down hypocrisy lane, maybe we could just stick with the obvious, which is that the numbers are just guides, and not guarantees in any direction, at least until it gets to the point where it's way beyond even the outliers.

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40 times give you an impression of the speed, sure, but if they were the end-all/be all, Philip Dorsett would just run by everyone on the field (4.27 and 4.29) on every play.

When you're talking about tenths and hundredths of a second, the tiniest thing matters. The post about Joejuan coming out of his crouch too soon points to something that matters.

Also, a guy who can bench 225 27 times can probably handle the 12-15 pounds of equipment a lot easier than a guy like Dorsett.

I'd love to see them do the 40 in pads, starting upright.

Heck, I was high on Kaden Smith this year, and his 40 was dismal.

DaBruinz said:

Sorry, Scott, but there is so much wrong with your post it's ridiculous.

- It's not the new "Patriots" rule. And no, the only play mentioned wasn't the one from the SB

- Williams won't be a yellow flag machine. Unless you've suddenly become clairvoyant..

- Your claim that JoeJuan Williams was only rated above Greedy Williams on the Pats board is BOGUS and the draft is proof. Hell, teams had other CBs rated above Greedy. That should tell you right there that your statement is wrong.

- I noticed that while mentioning that Greedy went right after JoeJuan, you failed to mention that he went to the Browns. Not exactly the best example to use.

- Jonathan Jones, our normal slot corner, is only on a 1 year deal. The nice thing about JoeJuan is that he has the agility to play in the slot.

- Clearly you've forgotten how the Patriots grade players. They grade them by where they are and what they feel they will become. Clearly they felt Williams will become a starting level player sooner than anyone else on the board. They have never EVER drafted strictly on need.

- As others have mentioned and you seem to have ignored, the Patriots have had some issues covering TEs.. Williams gives them the kind of player who can do that. And, from what I've seen, he gets his head around a lot more than Greedy Williams does when in coverage.. That was what stood out to me in all the "highlights" that were shown of the two..

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Your statement is completely correct thought I’d add some other bits in

I don’t get the understanding why some have said he is going to be a flag Machine, he’s going to play bump and run coverage with safety rotation, he also tackles very very well and gives us plenty of versatility for our scheme. He could even play SS/LB he has the size at 6’4.

The other thing that people forget to mention is um Defence wins championships... every Super Bowl a Defence has had to make a play to win it.

One other point in the Greedy/Joejuan discussion:

Joejuan statement: Transcript: Patriots DB Joejuan Williams Conference Call

BB said out loud that he only wants to coach players he likes. Hard not to like that interview.

Hey, I root for almost every player to do well - Greedy Williams has a ton of talent. But I'm not going second-guess this one before they even put on pads. There are roles Joejuan can fill that Greedy can't. JJ will find himself near the line a lot, taking on big guys.

Patsgofor4 said:

Finally:
William Belichick’s CB analysis skills plus hours upon hours of film review and background checks by Pats scouts >> scott99’s CB analysis skills and 43 minutes of youtube film review on his MacBook Air with PornHub bookmarked.

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Bill's second round history with CBs suggests that maybe he'd be better off taking scott99’s CB analysis skills and 43 minutes of youtube film review on his MacBook Air with PornHub bookmarked over his own.

50-yard-line said:

One other point in the Greedy/Joejuan discussion:

Joejuan statement: Transcript: Patriots DB Joejuan Williams Conference Call

BB said out loud that he only wants to coach players he likes. Hard not to like that interview.

Hey, I root for almost every player to do well - Greedy Williams has a ton of talent. But I'm not going second-guess this one before they even put on pads. There are roles Joejuan can fill that Greedy can't. JJ will find himself near the line a lot, taking on big guys.

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I think it's telling that Greedy Williams didn't run any agility drills. No Shuttle or 3 cone at the Combine or his Pro Day.

Also, something that is overlooked: Greedy's issues at the Combine.

"But he wasn't that impressive in the pedal-and-react, had to restart in the next drill multiple times and then said he was done for the day due to cramping. "

It's also interesting that Greedy didn't have a single visit with a team prior to the draft..

Why Greedy Williams didn’t visit NFL teams before the draft

Deus Irae said:

Bill's second round history with CBs suggests that maybe he'd be better off taking scott99’s CB analysis skills and 43 minutes of youtube film review on his MacBook Air with PornHub bookmarked over his own.

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Because 3 Corner (Cy Jones, Terence Wheatley, and Ras-I Dowling) picks in the 2nd round over the course of 20 years is such a huge number of data points to be able to make a scientific determination..

long distance said:

The idea that only one player from last class played has little to do with evaluation of draft class itself - since most players were lost to injuries (6 out of 9). Its also wrong.

From the 3 that remained (relatively) healthy and available only Etling didn't contribute - drafted as #3 developmental QB in the 7th round him being inactive is actually a positive thing.

From the 2 that did play Sony was the cornerstone of ultimate success (despite also being injured) and Crossen was a cornerstone of improved ST in the second part of the season while also seeing some DB snaps. He was pick #243.

And lets not forget JC Jackson who belongs to this class as an UDFA (BB always sees it this way) who stepped up in a major way to solidify problems at #2 CB. That would be the equivalent of the second round pick id guess.

From the players lost to injury Bentley actually earned his spot as a starting LB and showed glimpses of next LB stud and defensive leader - the next Mayo - now groomed by Mayo himself. If his development goes as started this can be an equivalent of a first round pick.

I still believe in Duke Dawson as integral chess piece of best secondary in football despite the JoJu pick. To me these are two strong DB picks for the future, both different in characteristics, both very versatile and matchup friendly.

Sam entered the core ST rotation before injury took him away, Izzo showed some serious blocking for a rookie TE in preseason and Berrios certainly deserves time to develop like Jules did so hopefully he can remain healthy from now on.

Last but not least, Pats highest pick Isaiah Wynn is clearly projected to start at LT (given they let Mount Brown go and did not pick one of the top OT).
______

To me it was an amazing 2018 Draft for NE and still is. I actually prefer it to this year. In a weaker class they managed to get 2 elite prospects/players and at least 2-3 more core starters for 2019. It will be quite a challenge for 2019 class to provide that - esp. in the elite category.

In addition to all these players - they managed to add 3 more 2019 Draft picks: a 2nd rounder (roughly) used on JoJu Williams, a high 3rd rounder (roughly) used on Winovich and a 7th rounder.
______


Considering all that 2018 might be one of best drafting games BB or anyone else ever played:

1st round pick (23rd overall): Isaiah Wynn, offensive lineman, Georgia
1st round pick (31st overall): Sony Michel, running back, Georgia
2nd round pick (56th overall): Duke Dawson, cornerback, Florida
5th round pick (143rd overall): Ja’whaun Bentley, linebacker, Purdue
6th round pick (178th overall): Christian Sam, linebacker, Arizona State
6th round pick (210th overall) Braxton Berrios, wide receiver, Miami
7th round pick (219th overall): Danny Etling, quarterback, LSU
7th round pick (243rd overall) Keion Crossen, cornerback, Western Carolina
7th round pick (250th overall) Ryan Izzo, tight end, Florida State
UDFA -- JC Jackson
+
2019 2nd rd pick #56 (CHI)
2019 3rd rd pick #73 (DET)
2019 7th

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It's not that I dont like this class. I do, a lot. That said Wynn was the highest graded player we ever drafted since I started doing this. Probably wouldn't have gone Sony Rd1 but he was as much PTP as anyone recently.

Had a 2nd on Dawson & I love that we essentially, potentially, have to "match-up" DB's in JJ & Dawson. Dawson in nickel/slot, S & JJ looks like a bully on the outside that will get TE, Big WR/Maybe Big slot duties.

Jackson, Bentley, Crossen etc

Again though Wynn just puts it over the top for me. Still feel gut punched from that injury & others tbh.

Hopefully the last 2 classes stay healthy & we get a bit of luck w either Gordon or Gronk coming back.

50-yard-line said:

40 times give you an impression of the speed, sure, but if they were the end-all/be all, Philip Dorsett would just run by everyone on the field (4.27 and 4.29) on every play.

When you're talking about tenths and hundredths of a second, the tiniest thing matters. The post about Joejuan coming out of his crouch too soon points to something that matters.

Also, a guy who can bench 225 27 times can probably handle the 12-15 pounds of equipment a lot easier than a guy like Dorsett.

I'd love to see them do the 40 in pads, starting upright.

Heck, I was high on Kaden Smith this year, and his 40 was dismal.

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The underwear Olympics are just data points. There isn't any drill there that guarantees NFL success. Everyone knows that, yet many of the people pounding the table against the 40 times will insist that 3 cone, or broad jump, or some other drill, is really where it's at. We go through the same routines time after time here:

• Player does combine
• Guys who like player rave about 'good' combine numbers
• Guys who don't like player point to 'bad' combine numbers
• If player gets taken, people attack pretty much anyone pointing to 'bad' combine numbers and/or dismiss the numbers

It's a silly ritual, because it'll mean nothing in the end. Great numbers don't insure success and average/poor numbers don't insure failure.

And angles, cushions, zones, press coverages and the like are part of why a Phillip Dorsett doesn't run by a Richard Sherman every time. If they just lined up side by side and ran at the snap, Dorsett would clear from Sherman quickly enough. So you've given us a very good example of why the numbers (be it 40 times, cone drills, or whatever) should only be used as guides.

One more example, though, just because you brought up the following:

50-yard-line said:

The post about Joejuan coming out of his crouch too soon points to something that matters.

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I remember having discussions about "something that matters" with regards to Devin McCourty, and getting slammed for daring to dislike the player as a CB because of his hips. I took **** from a bunch of people here, and McCourty's had a fine career as a safety rather than CB. The point being that even discussions about non-number issues end up with the homers flinging poo at anyone who dares to question the picks made by BB & Co..

So, no matter what issue scotty might have pointed to, the homers were going to jump on him. Because that's how it's done here.

scott99 said:

But it wasn’t needed THIS year. And I thought it was a bad move, especially with key elite offensive weapons still there and needed.

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BB always drafts with the future in mind, not just for the 2019 season. And a guy like Williams who is more versatile will always get the nod over a corner who sucks at tackling.

The 10 UDFA that the Patriots have supposedly signed are as follows:

Patriots Undrafted Free Agent Tracker: New England Add More Receiver Help

Jakobi Meyers - WR
Xavier Ubosi - WR
Ryan Davis - WR
Calvin Anderson - T/G
Terez Hall - LB
Malik Grant - S
Tyree St. Louis - OT
Tyler Gauthier - OC/OG
Andrew Beck - TE
Nick Brossette - RB

Interesting Notes:
Ryan Davis was a teammate of Jarrett Stidham at Auburn
Calvin Anderson and Andrew Beck were teammates at Texas
St. Louis and Gauthier were teammates at Miami..

Deus Irae said:

The underwear Olympics are just data points. There isn't any drill there that guarantees NFL success. Everyone knows that, yet many of the people pounding the table against the 40 times will insist that 3 cone, or broad jump, or some other drill, is really where it's at. We go through the same routines time after time here:

• Player does combine
• Guys who like player rave about 'good' combine numbers
• Guys who don't like player point to 'bad' combine numbers
• If player gets taken, people attack pretty much anyone pointing to 'bad' combine numbers and/or dismiss the numbers

It's a silly ritual, because it'll mean nothing in the end. Great numbers don't insure success and average/poor numbers don't insure failure.

And angles, cushions, zones, press coverages and the like are part of why a Phillip Dorsett doesn't run by a Richard Sherman every time. If they just lined up side by side and ran at the snap, Dorsett would clear from Sherman quickly enough. So you've given us a very good example of why the numbers (be it 40 times, cone drills, or whatever) should only be used as guides.

One more example, though, just because you brought up the following:



I remember having discussions about "something that matters" with regards to Devin McCourty, and getting slammed for daring to dislike the player as a CB because of his hips. I took **** from a bunch of people here, and McCourty's had a fine career as a safety rather than CB. The point being that even discussions about non-number issues end up with the homers flinging poo at anyone who dares to question the picks made by BB & Co..

So, no matter what issue scotty might have pointed to, the homers were going to jump on him. Because that's how it's done here.

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Yeah, I'll give you that. Human nature, though. I tend to skip the numbers unless something really jumps out as a red flag or a wowza moment, but even then, big grain of salt.

As I said, I was high on Kaden Smith.

I've learned how to read reviews over the last few decades, so I read the analyses I can find on a player and look for telling trends in how the scouts are describing the game - and that even includes what people here are saying about players in the draft forum.

Also, JJ coming out of his crouch too soon ONLY matters with regard to a 40 time. A good coach would train him down an extra stride or two and his time would improve - that why a tenth or so isn't really that big a deal to me.