Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

supafly said:

I think it’s faulty to assume that an inconsistent 2017 version of Malcolm Butler may have been some type of savior for us. He may have helped a little, a lot, or not at all—but there were also a lot of things that happened away from him that may not have made it the slam dunk victory that some are suggesting.

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You still try to play him when things are going badly. BB didn't even do that. At least try him for a series and see what happens. It couldn't have gotten any worse.

I still cant believe we have a debate over this. in 2015, the Patriots had Leonard Johnson during the final stretch of the season and in one of the two last games (cant remember if it was in NY or Miami, probably Miami) he was literally responsible for every new set of downs, QB was picking on him all night long. And we were fighting for HFA with such a liability in the secondary. And now there is a talk Butler would not have been useful out there at all, a guy with 2 SBs under his belt.

supafly said:

I totally hear what you’re saying. It should be noted that we had held Philly to 10 points (increasing their total from 22 to 32) after the switch of Gilmore on Jeffrey, and that lasted up until the last 5 minutes of the game or so until they converted on those 3rd/4th down attempts to Ertz on the controversial TD to move back ahead

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There 4 drives in the 2nd half: TD, FG, TD, FG. They didnt stop them once. The only reason it was 'only' 10 points was that the Patriots were also marching down the field and kept them to 2 possessions before losing the lead. It had nothing to with the defense playing better. They didnt, they played worse. And also that 3rd drive, ending a TD, took over 7 minutes, exactly what Philly wanted. That litterally was the worst thing the Pats D could have let happen. It sucked

Almost 2900 posts later and there is scant evidence that if Butler played the outcome would have been different, I know I am in the minority, but thought Malcolm had a bad year for the Pats and was often out of position and confused in his role. He was not a difference maker on the Defense this year..

He may have made a difference, but no one really knows.. my hope for Butler is that he finds a competent agent, not someone aunt Tilly knows, and navigate the waters of free agency with a favorable outcome...

What is not talked about is how well Foles played in that game, pinpoint accuracy in pretty good coverage.. some of the completions were as good as any I have ever witnessed in a SB..

The Eagles outplayed the Patriots and this is what happened..

DarrylS said:

my hope for Butler is that he finds a competent agent, not someone aunt Tilly knows, and navigate the waters of free agency with a favorable outcome...

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This is how I felt at the last preseason, that the resolution would wind up being bad for all parties: Butler, the Patriots, and Butler's agent. One of the worst player negotiations I've seen in a long time.

DarrylS said:

Almost 2900 posts later and there is scant evidence that if Butler played the outcome would have been different, I know I am in the minority, but thought Malcolm had a bad year for the Pats and was often out of position and confused in his role. He was not a difference maker on the Defense this year..

He may have made a difference, but no one really knows.. my hope for Butler is that he finds a competent agent, not someone aunt Tilly knows, and navigate the waters of free agency with a favorable outcome...

What is not talked about is how well Foles played in that game, pinpoint accuracy in pretty good coverage.. some of the completions were as good as any I have ever witnessed in a SB..

The Eagles outplayed the Patriots and this is what happened..

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Yes, but honestly how could it have gotten worse? I mean, if you asked 100 people who the two best CB on the Pats were, I think 100% would say Gilmore and Butler. When your team is getting torched in the passing game, does it not make sense to use your (arguably) 2nd best cover guy? Maybe it may not have made a difference but the point is, something personal wise should have been done and it was not.

Often, why out think yourself. You ride the horse that brought you there. The duo of Butler and Gilmore was playing well and had finally come together. Why change at the last moment?

I would also say that how it was done seemed to cause issues. Butler was clearly upset and who knows how that impacted the team. Honestly, we will never know but it will pass and we most likely will never know. Butler want's a new job and he (and his agent) knows bashing the Pats and BB will not do him any good. Will be interesting to see where he goes.

DarrylS said:

Almost 2900 posts later and there is scant evidence that if Butler played the outcome would have been different, I know I am in the minority, but thought Malcolm had a bad year for the Pats and was often out of position and confused in his role. He was not a difference maker on the Defense this year..

He may have made a difference, but no one really knows.. my hope for Butler is that he finds a competent agent, not someone aunt Tilly knows, and navigate the waters of free agency with a favorable outcome...

What is not talked about is how well Foles played in that game, pinpoint accuracy in pretty good coverage.. some of the completions were as good as any I have ever witnessed in a SB..

The Eagles outplayed the Patriots and this is what happened..

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Eagles outplayed us? Lol Brady threw for 500yrds and Foles went up against a trash defense

robertweathers said:

Add 8 SB using a QB he picked, mentored, coached and built an offensive system around.

Oh but that doesn't fit your narrative....

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You won’t see me lobbying for a coaching change.....I appreciate having him as the coach, but........

This doesn’t change the fact that he completely f*cked up Sunday

DarrylS said:

Almost 2900 posts later and there is scant evidence that if Butler played the outcome would have been different, I know I am in the minority, but thought Malcolm had a bad year for the Pats and was often out of position and confused in his role. He was not a difference maker on the Defense this year..

He may have made a difference, but no one really knows.. my hope for Butler is that he finds a competent agent, not someone aunt Tilly knows, and navigate the waters of free agency with a favorable outcome...

What is not talked about is how well Foles played in that game, pinpoint accuracy in pretty good coverage.. some of the completions were as good as any I have ever witnessed in a SB..

The Eagles outplayed the Patriots and this is what happened..

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Malcolm was somehow adequate enough to see 98% of the defensive snaps against all kinds of WRs and QBs all season long. Explain what was so different about last week that he saw zero snaps.

IllegalContact said:

You won’t see me lobbying for a coaching change.....I appreciate having him as the coach, but........

This doesn’t change the fact that he completely f*cked up Sunday

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After sleeping on it (again) I think there is still way more to this than we know.

It makes zero sense on multiple levels.

I think there are multiple liers here

Satchboogie3 said:

There 4 drives in the 2nd half: TD, FG, TD, FG. They didnt stop them once. The only reason it was 'only' 10 points was that the Patriots were also marching down the field and kept them to 2 possessions before losing the lead. It had nothing to with the defense playing better. They didnt, they played worse. And also that 3rd drive, ending a TD, took over 7 minutes, exactly what Philly wanted. That litterally was the worst thing the Pats D could have let happen. It sucked

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The last 10 points happened within the last 5 min or so. While I agree with you that they didn’t stop them, the choice to put Gilmore on Jeffrey was certainly helping, as was the fact that they were limiting their possessions.

As you said, the backbreaker was the long drive that saw Philly take the lead late in the game. The question is how much Butler may have helped due to what they were doing.

Jackson 2 said:

Sure as hell? Come on...

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Do yourself a favor and visit the game rewatch thread. I'm posting plenty of information that shows that not putting Butler in the game was in itself, a big game changer.

robertweathers said:

After sleeping on it (again) I think there is still way more to this than we know.

It makes zero sense on multiple levels.

I think there are multiple liers here

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Maybe....but to me, the current optics dictate he should have been on the field and the fact that he wasn’t rests with B.B. only

I certainly don’t believe his skills diminished to the point where they had to play Bademosi and Richards instead.... no fricking way

DarrylS said:

Almost 2900 posts later and there is scant evidence that if Butler played the outcome would have been different, I know I am in the minority, but thought Malcolm had a bad year for the Pats and was often out of position and confused in his role. He was not a difference maker on the Defense this year..

He may have made a difference, but no one really knows.. my hope for Butler is that he finds a competent agent, not someone aunt Tilly knows, and navigate the waters of free agency with a favorable outcome...

What is not talked about is how well Foles played in that game, pinpoint accuracy in pretty good coverage.. some of the completions were as good as any I have ever witnessed in a SB..

The Eagles outplayed the Patriots and this is what happened..

Click to expand...

I agree with much of what you've said. Playing Butler may have made no difference but we'll never know. And let's be honest, he could not have played any worse than the guys who replaced him. And if he played better, because he has shown the ability to be a much better player than the guys who replaced him does he make a key tackle, a key strip, an INT?? And to me an even bigger issue is how everyone in the defensive backfield were "out of sorts". Other than Gilmore the whole group looked "off" and I think Butler not being back there had a domino effect in terms of everyone else's assignments.
For 4 quarters they got terrible play from that cornerback spot and Belichick left Butler on the sidelines. INEXCUSABLE!

not buying the "package" crap. If Butler didn't practice in a certain game plan "package", or didn't seem to grasp it....shouldn't that game plan be scrapped when they see it isn't working at all? At that time you change up and put Butler in..should have been on Agholor.

IllegalContact said:

Maybe....but to me, the current optics dictate he should have been on the field and the fact that he wasn’t rests with B.B. only

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The optics are/were pathetic.

IllegalContact said:

I certainly don’t believe his skills diminished to the point where they had to play Bademosi and Richards instead.... no fricking way

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Agree. Did he have a not-as-good-year as 2016, absolutely.

Thats why I don't believe Malcolm and I don't believe Bill one bit.

PP2 said:

Do yourself a favor and visit the game rewatch thread. I'm posting plenty of information that shows that not putting Butler in the game was in itself, a big game changer.

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Are there people disagreeing with that?

robertweathers said:

Thats why I don't believe Malcolm and I don't believe Bill one bit.

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we will learn the truth when we don't give a crap anymore

Problem I have in this thread is the members discussing Butler as the 2016 version ... which is way off base. There are threads and many posts in this forum relating to Butler falling off the cliff this year.

He really fell off the cliff vs Titans and Jaguars ... add in he had the flu and struggled in practice and the rest is history. We got beat by a great team that has an awesome O-line needs to be a part of any intelligent discussion.

supafly said:

I truly believe that Butler could’ve made a difference, then I look back to the 42 points given up to KC and a similar offensive scheme and I’m not as sure. It isn’t like he didn’t have communication issues or play poorly at times this year, that’s for sure.

...but there were a LOT of things that were wrong in this game, and I think it’s faulty to assume that an inconsistent 2017 version of Malcolm Butler may have been some type of savior for us. He may have helped a little, a lot, or not at all—but there were also a lot of things that happened away from him that may not have made it the slam dunk victory that some are suggesting.

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Ignore the clickbait headline and go through to the piece.

Benching Malcolm Butler was another stroke of genius from Bill Belichick ... in theory