Butler & Saints working towards finalizing a deal (Thread now UFC Pats Fans Event)

Mack Herron · Mar 16, 2017

Sam Bam Cunningham said:
See below...exact wording from NFL CBA. It does NOT say that team that signs an RFA to an offer sheet must give their original first round draft pick (#11), it just states they must give one first round selection. Therefore, it may be OK for Saints to give #32 after Butler signs offer sheet, although there is no precedent..so if the Patriots and Saints disagreed on this point Goodell would have to arbitrate. Since he hates both teams I wonder who he would rule for????

(4) Right of First Refusal and One First Round Draft Selection: one year Player Contract with a Paragraph 5 Salary of at least (a) $2,611,000, or (b) 110% of the player’s prior year’s Paragraph 5 Salary, whichever is greater; in addition, if option (b) applies, all other terms of the player’s prior year contract are carried forward unchanged.

Interesting if it can be any #1. Still, leverage is NO still has to pay Butler and fork over a #1, and BB has Gilmore so doesn't need Butler. It won't be a right of first refusal situation though. If they agree to terms with Butler, he calls BB to discuss compensation. If there is an agreement, #32 is a good guess.

Not clear NO can entice Butler. If Butler plays in NE he makes $4M then hits FA and goes to the highest bidder for, what? At least $10M? That makes his average for next 2 at least $7M. How much more do you think NO is prepared to offer to take him away from a SB champion with $12M in cap available?

QuantumMechanic · Mar 16, 2017

Sam Bam Cunningham said:
See below...exact wording from NFL CBA. It does NOT say that team that signs an RFA to an offer sheet must give their original first round draft pick (#11), it just states they must give one first round selection. Therefore, it may be OK for Saints to give #32 after Butler signs offer sheet, although there is no precedent..so if the Patriots and Saints disagreed on this point Goodell would have to arbitrate. Since he hates both teams I wonder who he would rule for????

(4) Right of First Refusal and One First Round Draft Selection: one year Player Contract with a Paragraph 5 Salary of at least (a) $2,611,000, or (b) 110% of the player’s prior year’s Paragraph 5 Salary, whichever is greater; in addition, if option (b) applies, all other terms of the player’s prior year contract are carried forward unchanged.

If you go further down the CBA, to the part that talks about what happens when a team does not exercise its right to match you will find the following:

Any Club that does not have available, in the upcoming Draft, the selection choice or choices (its own or better choices in the applicable rounds) needed to provide Draft Choice Compensation in the event of a timely First Refusal Exercise Notice may not sign an Offer Sheet in such circumstances.

So I read that as saying that a team needs to have on hand either its own selection or something better than its own. So the Saints will have to give up #11 if they sign Butler to an offer, IMHO.

yopats · Mar 16, 2017

Butler's agent shouldn't settle for anything less than what Gilmore received.

Which he would get next year in free agency.

Not sure what they are negoating about right now. It's all about that guaranteed $$$ . Gilmore got $40m and Boyue got $26m. He should be shooting for somewhere in between.

convertedpatsfan · Mar 16, 2017

QuantumMechanic said:
If you go further down the CBA, to the part that talks about what happens when a team does not exercise its right to match you will find the following:

Any Club that does not have available, in the upcoming Draft, the selection choice or choices (its own or better choices in the applicable rounds) needed to provide Draft Choice Compensation in the event of a timely First Refusal Exercise Notice may not sign an Offer Sheet in such circumstances.

So I read that as saying that a team needs to have on hand either its own selection or something better than its own. So the Saints will have to give up #11 if they sign Butler to an offer, IMHO.

I read that too but it pertains to making the offer sheet, and it simply states that a team that doesn't own a pick in that round can't make an offer sheet. I think the intent of that is that if they had traded away their own selection in that round but had another one, they could still prepare an offer sheet.

But I didn't see anything specifically saying the higher of the picks would be the one that must be used. Which is weird. I thought for sure that's what it would be, but I don't really see it there.

QuantumMechanic · Mar 16, 2017

But look at the words around the parenthetical...

the selection choice or choices needed to provide Draft Choice Compensation

So that's talking about the pick(s) that the acquiring team would actually have to give up if they sign the player away. The parenthetical is modifying "choice or choices" and those "choice or choices" are used "to provide Draft Choice Compensation". So I think it is clearly saying that a team has to give up its own or better choice in the appropriate round when it signs away a player.

Sam Bam Cunningham · Mar 16, 2017

QuantumMechanic said:
If you go further down the CBA, to the part that talks about what happens when a team does not exercise its right to match you will find the following:

Any Club that does not have available, in the upcoming Draft, the selection choice or choices (its own or better choices in the applicable rounds) needed to provide Draft Choice Compensation in the event of a timely First Refusal Exercise Notice may not sign an Offer Sheet in such circumstances.

So I read that as saying that a team needs to have on hand either its own selection or something better than its own. So the Saints will have to give up #11 if they sign Butler to an offer, IMHO.

thanks, I missed that.

JMC00 · Mar 16, 2017

Elijah said:
What could have been...

Edelman wouldn't be on the team.

The_Riddler · Mar 16, 2017

Love you Malcolm, Please, Please Stay Home...

SHOWTIME15 · Mar 16, 2017

Mike lombardi says he thinks butler stays a patriot

Michael Lombardi of The Ringer believes Malcolm Butler will return to New England Patriots in 2017

supafly · Mar 16, 2017

TommyBrady12 said:
Mike lombardi says he thinks butler stays a patriot

Michael Lombardi of The Ringer believes Malcolm Butler will return to New England Patriots in 2017

How often is big mouth Lombardi correct, and is there anything Patriots related that he doesn't have a strong public opinion on? I honestly don't know, but it seems like he just throws **** at the wall like everyone else.

Belichick has to get a kick on some of his takes. He just has to.

VectorPrime · Mar 16, 2017

Lombardi is a Bleichick mouthpiece so...

Todd Bradley · Mar 16, 2017

supafly said:
How often is big mouth Lombardi correct, and is there anything Patriots related that he doesn't have a strong public opinion on? I honestly don't know, but it seems like he just throws **** at the wall like everyone else.

Belichick has to get a kick on some of his takes. He just has to.

He was very, very right about the Collins trade. He was one of the first to say Jimmy G would very likely not be traded.

Has been right about a lot of things. He's been right way more than he's been wrong since going the media route.

Big Bucks · Mar 16, 2017

TommyBrady12 said:
Mike lombardi says he thinks butler stays a patriot

Michael Lombardi of The Ringer believes Malcolm Butler will return to New England Patriots in 2017

The word 'hopefully' goes back quite a while does it not with corners drafted by the Saints.

TommyD4207 · Mar 16, 2017

supafly said:
How often is big mouth Lombardi correct,

Quite a bit, actually.

HawaiianPatsfan · Mar 16, 2017

The more I think about the saints going after Butler, the more I just don't understand why.
1. Giving up a potentional 1st in a draft that is stacked in CB's
2. For the first time time in many season's the saints aren't in cap hell... why the rush to go out and get back into in by back loading a contract and borderline overpaying a CB 1/2
3. And my most recent train of thought. The one complaint against Butler by most patriot fans is, he isn't capable of matching up against big receivers all game, especially 1 on 1. Which is very much true. Why would the saints want Butler when they are in a Division that' has the biggest WR's in the entire league?
Car : Benjermin 6'5/ Futches 6'5
Tampa : Evans 6'5/ Jackson 6'5 (not sure if he's returning)
ATL : Jones 6'4/ sanu 6'2

I just think all things considered, especially the whole division height thing, it's just a bad idea/fit on the Saints part.

kennyb · Mar 16, 2017

HawaiianPatsfan said:
The more I think about the saints going after Butler, the more I just don't understand why.
1. Giving up a potentional 1st in a draft that is stacked in CB's
2. For the first time time in many season's the saints aren't in cap hell... why the rush to go out and get back into in by back loading a contract and borderline overpaying a CB 1/2
3. And my most recent train of thought. The one complaint against Butler by most patriot fans is, he isn't capable of matching up against big receivers all game, especially 1 on 1. Which is very much true. Why would the saints want Butler when they are in a Division that' has the biggest WR's in the entire league?
Car : Benjermin 6'5/ Futches 6'5
Tampa : Evans 6'5/ Jackson 6'5 (not sure if he's returning)
ATL : Jones 6'4/ sanu 6'2

I just think all things considered, especially the whole division height thing, it's just a bad idea/fit on the Saints part.

Makes no sense on butler's either unless they're offering huge money, which is doubtful. He thinks he's worth top cb money. They won't offer that. So from his point, better to play for one year and hit fa.

Utterly delusional. He's a slightly above average cb.

He's signed his tender from what i've read. Pats could now trade him even without a long term deal. Just to get rid of him. Tempting.

QuantumMechanic · Mar 16, 2017

kennyb said:
He's signed his tender from what i've read.

I can't find anything to that effect online.

kennyb · Mar 17, 2017

QuantumMechanic said:
I can't find anything to that effect online.

I can't find it either, so i must be mistaken.

JMC00 · Mar 17, 2017

kennyb said:
I can't find it either, so i must be mistaken.

You might have saw that Coleman signed his EFRA tender.

supafly · Mar 17, 2017

TommyD4207 said:
Quite a bit, actually.

Todd Bradley said:
He was very, very right about the Collins trade. He was one of the first to say Jimmy G would very likely not be traded.

Has been right about a lot of things. He's been right way more than he's been wrong since going the media route.

I'm not saying that he doesn't have insider sources, but it seems like he makes a lot of noise about the inner workings of the organization just about every single week.

Butler & Saints working towards finalizing a deal (Thread now UFC Pats Fans Event)

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