realistic FA class for pats

MaineMan said:

What characteristics are those?

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Big powerful runner type.

The point is not Pierre Thomas but a RB with this traits. Maybe BB didn't really want "Pierre Thomas" but if he's the only guy with the traits you are looking for, it is what it is.

I really don't understand why we didn't run more last week. If BJGE is not your guy, what's the point of the regular season.

However, one thing we can conclude is this is a piece to the 2011 puzzle.

patsfaninpittsburgh said:

Big powerful runner type.

The point is not Pierre Thomas but a RB with this traits. Maybe BB didn't really want "Pierre Thomas" but if he's the only guy with the traits you are looking for, it is what it is.

I really don't understand why we didn't run more last week. If BJGE is not your guy, what's the point of the regular season.

However, one thing we can conclude is this is a piece to the 2011 puzzle.

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BGE, I think, runs with just as much power as Thomas and his ball security is better. It's not a matter of whether or not BGE is "my guy." I like what BGE does; it's very useful in the appropriate situations. For me, the thing is that both BGE and Thomas need an extra blocker - FB or TE - to make consistent progress into the LB level of the defense. That typically takes one of our better pass-catchers off the field any time we want to threaten to run. So, Thomas makes little difference in that regard.

OTOH, Thomas is a better pass-catcher than BGE, has a bit more long speed and can occasionally make a 2nd cut. So, yes, he would add variety to the ground game, which would help some. But he's a far cry from being the "beast" that a lot of folks seem to assume he'd be.

Brian Robison of the Vikings and Joseph Addai from the colts are the two players I want.

Robison blew up the combine in 2007 running in the mid 4.6 at almost 260 lbs.

Addai will be a solid back-up and is good in Blitz pick up and receiving and give 7-10 carries a game. If BJGE goes down there is a proven back to count on.
He is now 3rd on the colts behind Brown and Mike Hart

Robinson would probably command about 4.5 mill a year to pry him from the Vikings which makes him risky. But It will allow the Pats to rebuild the lines by taking take two of from each group in the draft.

Jordan/Watt/Wilkenson/Guy on the dline
Wisenewski, Sherrod, Iljanna, Watkins on the oline.

I really want them to stay away from the big time FA aside from maybe Haloti Ngata should he reach free agency. I think that is very unlikely and given what happened with Adalius Thomas, I'm weary of the attitude Baltimore players are bringing with them. Those fears aside he is capable of playing 3 downs and next to Wilfork he creates a nightmarish tandem to scheme against.

Mike Sims-Walker is exactly what this team needs on the offensive end. We've got good WRs but the one thing we are completely lacking on the outside is size. I have nothing wrong with small and shifty but when that is all you are bringing to the table you can get a little ordinary in the face of physical cornerback play. Taylor Price is a step in the right direction in that department but his role is difficult to project given that he spent the year as a practice squad coaching and system project. Adding Sims-Walker (6'2" - 215lbs) gives us that big outside threat we don't have.

I love the Ricky Williams idea. He's never been an injury problem, has plenty of tread on the tires after spending 3+ years not playing football and would be a great 5-10 carry change of pace guy who can also play some 3rd down passing situations.

And finally bring in Champ Bailey if at all possible. Relegate Leigh Bodden to slot and nickel duty and let Bailey play opposite of Devin McCourty. I don't know what his thoughts about New England and the Patriots are but I would guess there is a snowball's chance in hell that he stays in that abyss Denver turned into. If his demands lie anywhere near reasonable, bust ass and bring him here.

what about ochocinco

Yes, let's have a guy who would count over 5 million dollars against the cao next season as our Slot Corner.. That makes a LOT of sense..

No to Ricky Williams. First is that he's 34. This idea that he's still got tread on his tires after having over 2300 carries in his career is just silly..

If the Pats bring in a RB, I'd rather see them bring in a guy like Michael Bush who really does still have tread left on his tires..

As for having someone "tall" on the outside, the Pats have Tate and Price who they are brining along. Tate is 5'11 7/8 and Price is 6'0 and 3/8. They are both ample size. Especially when you have Gronkoski and Hernandez who are 6'6 and 6'2 3/8 respectively.

The Pats need to focus on the O-line. Mankins, Someone for RG, and a center. They also need to look at someone for either LT or RT depending on where they see Vollmer and Maneri fitting.

aurakilla said:

what about ochocinco

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The only way I'd want him on the team is for the vet minimum and for him to leave the gold teeth and his antics at the door.

DaBruinz said:

The only way I'd want him on the team is for the vet minimum and for him to leave the gold teeth and his antics at the door.

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what about for 1-2 mil, he would be a great addition in terms of quality at wr. definitely free up welker a lil

aurakilla said:

what about for 1-2 mil, he would be a great addition in terms of quality at wr. definitely free up welker a lil

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I question whether or not he is still quality. He's 33 and the last 3 years have been subpar for him. I'd rather give the reps to Tate and Price and let them develop than bring in Chad and the circus that follows him..

realistically mankins and pierre thomas

i think we could get moss... just don't know if we want him

i want woodley out of all the FA's but probably too many dollars

patman52 said:

Brian Robison of the Vikings and Joseph Addai from the colts are the two players I want.

Robison blew up the combine in 2007 running in the mid 4.6 at almost 260 lbs.

Addai will be a solid back-up and is good in Blitz pick up and receiving and give 7-10 carries a game. If BJGE goes down there is a proven back to count on.
He is now 3rd on the colts behind Brown and Mike Hart

Robinson would probably command about 4.5 mill a year to pry him from the Vikings which makes him risky. But It will allow the Pats to rebuild the lines by taking take two of from each group in the draft.

Jordan/Watt/Wilkenson/Guy on the dline
Wisenewski, Sherrod, Iljanna, Watkins on the oline.

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Where did you get that idea?

MaineMan said:

Where did you get that idea?

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Just my take

The best case scenario is to sign an interior lineman and a running back. Pierre Thomas wound be ideal. Course if they would spend the cash on an OLB it would solidify the team perfectly pre-draft....

DaBruinz said:

Yes, let's have a guy who would count over 5 million dollars against the cao next season as our Slot Corner.. That makes a LOT of sense..

No to Ricky Williams. First is that he's 34. This idea that he's still got tread on his tires after having over 2300 carries in his career is just silly..

If the Pats bring in a RB, I'd rather see them bring in a guy like Michael Bush who really does still have tread left on his tires..

As for having someone "tall" on the outside, the Pats have Tate and Price who they are brining along. Tate is 5'11 7/8 and Price is 6'0 and 3/8. They are both ample size. Especially when you have Gronkoski and Hernandez who are 6'6 and 6'2 3/8 respectively.

The Pats need to focus on the O-line. Mankins, Someone for RG, and a center. They also need to look at someone for either LT or RT depending on where they see Vollmer and Maneri fitting.

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Oh, please. The aggregate cost that they would be allocating to corners would still be very reasonable with respect to the rest of the teams salary cap situation. Darius Butler and Devin McCourty are still on very cheap rookie deals and Arrington is earning the salary of a UDFA. Not adding a better corner, if the opportunity arises, because you're afraid of spending $5M on a slot corner is foolish. Besides, with the amount of 3WR sets that are in the game now it makes sense to be 3 deep at cornerback.

As for Taylor Price and Brandon Tate, the average height of an NFL WR is 6'1" and at 6'0" and 5'11". They both fall short. I think Price has the ability to beat physical corners but he wasn't given the opportunity to prove it so that is at best a faith based assumption at this point. Brandon Tate showed he isn't particularly adept at breaking off the line in the face of physical play and all he really showed is that he can run fast but has a long way to go in terms of the more basic aspects of his position. Like catching a ball that hits you in the numbers. Sims-Walker, on the other hand, is a finished project with very good size and leaping ability. He can go up and get balls that other WRs on our team can't. I like the size that Gronk and Hernandez have too, but they're TEs. It's in their job description to be big. They can definitely play but you can't expect them to beat CBs deep in a vertical passing situation and any big gains they get are going to come off of running the seam or yards after the catch.

Oh, and Ricky Williams has averaged 4.1, 4.7, and 4.2 YPC over the past 3 seasons on a bad team. He hasn't shouldered a team's running since 2003 when he was 26 and has been given an average of 182 carries over the past 3 seasons. The best statistical metric to view a RB in decline is their affect in the passing game. Generally RBs who were good passing threats see their production in the passing game drop of dramatically, a la Ladanian Tomlinson in 2009. Ricky Williams career percentage of touches that were catches is 12.4%. Over the last 3 years his receptions have accounted for 15.3%(2008), 12.7%(2009), and 10.7%(2010). And before you decry that as proof of him losing it due to age with the regression in those numbers, consider that the Dolphins changed from the noodle-armed Chad Penninginton(2008-2009 QB) who lived on screen passes, RB swings, and short passing to Chad Henne(2009-2010) who has the ability to throw the ball downfield...although not particularly well.

the wrothbroughterer said:

Oh, please. The aggregate cost that they would be allocating to corners would still be very reasonable with respect to the rest of the teams salary cap situation. Darius Butler and Devin McCourty are still on very cheap rookie deals and Arrington is earning the salary of a UDFA. Not adding a better corner, if the opportunity arises, because you're afraid of spending $5M on a slot corner is foolish. Besides, with the amount of 3WR sets that are in the game now it makes sense to be 3 deep at cornerback.

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What is foolish is thinking that adding someone like Champ Bailey or Asomugha is going to magically help the defense. You seem to overlook that the real issues are at the D-line and OLB postion.

the wrothbroughterer said:

As for Taylor Price and Brandon Tate, the average height of an NFL WR is 6'1" and at 6'0" and 5'11". They both fall short. I think Price has the ability to beat physical corners but he wasn't given the opportunity to prove it so that is at best a faith based assumption at this point. Brandon Tate showed he isn't particularly adept at breaking off the line in the face of physical play and all he really showed is that he can run fast but has a long way to go in terms of the more basic aspects of his position. Like catching a ball that hits you in the numbers. Sims-Walker, on the other hand, is a finished project with very good size and leaping ability. He can go up and get balls that other WRs on our team can't. I like the size that Gronk and Hernandez have too, but they're TEs. It's in their job description to be big. They can definitely play but you can't expect them to beat CBs deep in a vertical passing situation and any big gains they get are going to come off of running the seam or yards after the catch.

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Please show me where the "average height for an NFL WR is 6'1." Seriously. Please provide a link because I believe that is you spewing BS. In fact, if you go an look, the top 5 receivers this year were all 6'0 and under...

This was Tate's rookie season for all intents and purposes. He's still learning. Acting as if he's a 4th or 5th year man who still hasn't figured it out shows that you really have a serious lack of understanding.

Also, if you think that Sims-Walker is going to be cheap, your smoking some cheap stuff. The Pats have a very good to excellent corps of receivers. They need help on the O-line and D-line. Yet, you'd have them blow money on positions that are their strengths.. That makes no sense at all.

For FA RBs, look no further than John Kuhn. The guy can do it all: FB, short yardage RB, good pass catcher, and a solid special teams guy. Plus, he's only 28 and has a good amount of tread left on the tires. And most of you guys should know how good he is by now after that solid performance he had against us this season. I'd lock this guy up to a 2-3 yr deal in a heartbeat.

the wrothbroughterer said:

I really want them to stay away from the big time FA aside from maybe Haloti Ngata should he reach free agency. I think that is very unlikely and given what happened with Adalius Thomas, I'm weary of the attitude Baltimore players are bringing with them. Those fears aside he is capable of playing 3 downs and next to Wilfork he creates a nightmarish tandem to scheme against.

Mike Sims-Walker is exactly what this team needs on the offensive end. We've got good WRs but the one thing we are completely lacking on the outside is size. I have nothing wrong with small and shifty but when that is all you are bringing to the table you can get a little ordinary in the face of physical cornerback play. Taylor Price is a step in the right direction in that department but his role is difficult to project given that he spent the year as a practice squad coaching and system project. Adding Sims-Walker (6'2" - 215lbs) gives us that big outside threat we don't have.

I love the Ricky Williams idea. He's never been an injury problem, has plenty of tread on the tires after spending 3+ years not playing football and would be a great 5-10 carry change of pace guy who can also play some 3rd down passing situations.

And finally bring in Champ Bailey if at all possible. Relegate Leigh Bodden to slot and nickel duty and let Bailey play opposite of Devin McCourty. I don't know what his thoughts about New England and the Patriots are but I would guess there is a snowball's chance in hell that he stays in that abyss Denver turned into. If his demands lie anywhere near reasonable, bust ass and bring him here.

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This is the one part of your plan I strongly disagree with. Why would we go and sign another veteran DB just to relegate our other vet. cb (who is 3yrs younger by the way) that we just signed to a pretty decent contract to slot and nickel back duties? If anything, Champ is closer to being relegated to Safety/or nickel duties at this point in his career than Leigh is. Plus, having a CB like Champ pushes a CB like Arrington or Darius further down the depth chart, limiting their playing time and thus, stunting their growth as football players. And as a result, when Champ retires and or leaves us, people are going to complain again about Arrington and Darius when they have to fill in for him because they HAVEN'T IMPROVED!!:bricks:

What about DeAngelo Williams?

One of the silver linings to being eliminated where the Pats were is the opportunity to coach the pro bowl and get to know some of these players.

If you have the opportunity to sign Ngata to a deal similar to Wilfork, you do it. Football is won in the trenches and he'd be the perfect guy to replace Seymour. I think he's the one guy who would add the most value to the D.

Patsbacker said:

I want Jason Snelling...he'd be a beast in this offense.

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Snelling or John Kuhn would be fantastic additions. Both are the type of RB/FB whom would mesh well with BJGE and Woodhead...

Either Cliff Avril or Kamerion Wimbley would significantly upgrade the pass rush...

If they're looking to add another receiver, then Lance Moore would be a nice addition...

Harvey Dahl seems likely to re-sign with Atlanta, but he's the type of interior lineman the Pats should be targeting...