Six months after SB win, what little thing sticks in your memory?

[Tony2046]

Amen, it was def a "What the hell is there to discuss?' moment.

I agree 100% but we had a die hard " Gostkowski has missed a few" lady at the party.

 

[luuked]

Read it. You’re still describing momentum. Confidence is a part of that, as anyone who has ever played a sport competitively can tell you.

Momentum is a myth made up by people who have a need to make every random thing that happens in a game a part of some overarching narrative. But whatever go on believing in a concept that regularly switches around between teams multiple times within a single drive and therefore is meaningless and worth zilch.

 

[Patstastic]

I remember never really being nervous during the game. Sometimes against a top offense, you just feel like it's only a matter of time before they put something together. I never got worried against the Rams, even when it was tied and we had to punt. Phenomenal performance by our defense.

Bingo. In a way, it reminded me of SB 39. Despite the score, I never felt the Pats were going to lose that game. The final score isn't indicative of how lopsided that game (SB 39) was.

 

[luuked]

A) Matt Patricia looks like an absolute clown (Pun intended) after the SB 53 performance. His defense gives up 41 to a backup QB in the SB. The next year (Without him) the defense gives up three to arguably the best offense in Football.

It is funny how you think Patricia is a clown for maybe his finest coaching job in his entire tenure here. With Branch rather standing in line at Panda Express than defending the line on the field, Hightower lost to IR leaving absolutely no LB depth and losing Jonathan Jones who had challenged Butler as a starting CB. His defenses in 2014, 2016 and especially 2015 were really good.

But that's par for the course for some around here. Success (or lack of) has not particularly much to do with how someone performed and most certainly should not be used in any way to evaluate people.

 

[Patstastic]

It is funny how you think Patricia is a clown for maybe his finest coaching job in his entire tenure here. With Branch rather standing in line at Panda Express than defending the line on the field, Hightower lost to IR leaving absolutely no LB depth and losing Jonathan Jones who had challenged Butler as a starting CB. His defenses in 2014, 2016 and especially 2015 were really good.

But that's par for the course for some around here. Success (or lack of) has not particularly much to do with how someone performed and most certainly should not be used in any way to evaluate people.

His defense was shaky throughout the 2017 season. And whatever he called got exploited. He was a deer in the headlights in SB 52. The Philly special fiasco is absolutely on him. Not saying it's 100 percent his fault. But he gets alot of blame in my book.

 

[maust]

I agree 100% but we had a die hard " Gostkowski has missed a few" lady at the party.

Of course you did. I am fairly certain that it is some immutable sports gathering law that there always has to be someone of that ilk when real and casual fans are forced together in a group of ten or more. No doubt someone mentioned the missed 46 yarder in the 1st and attributed it to the Pats '1st quarter SB scoring jinx' smdh

 

[Kontradiction]

Momentum is a myth made up by people who have a need to make every random thing that happens in a game a part of some overarching narrative. But whatever go on believing in a concept that regularly switches around between teams multiple times within a single drive and therefore is meaningless and worth zilch.

First off, my last post came off as condescending. I didn’t do that intentionally.

Secondly...

Belichick said it usually takes him three days to get through all the reminders he gives his team before the game, covering topics such as the pacing of the game, which will have 11 commercials in each half and a 29-minute halftime. "There's no momentum to it," he said. "It's like going to a traffic light, stop, traffic light, stop -- that kind of thing. But that's the game, so you've gotta play it that way."

Belichick on why he isn’t a fan of the pacing in Super Bowls, citing Lady Mo specifically.

If you’ve played any kind of organized sport in your life, you know that there is such a thing as momentum throughout points in the game. Be it positive or negative. Doesn’t mean that it will translate to a W or an L, because you’ve still got to take advantage of it either way. But it definitely exists. You already admitted as much yourself because you defined it.

I’ll use an example and frame it was a simple question: at the coin toss in OT for Super Bowl 51, were you hoping that the Patriots would win the toss or did you simply not care?

 

[luuked]

His defense was shaky throughout the 2017 season. And whatever he called got exploited. He was a deer in the headlights in SB 52. The Philly special fiasco is absolutely on him. Not saying it's 100 percent his fault. But he gets alot of blame in my book.

How is a play that was not legal because the Eagles didn't line up correctly on Patricia ?

I guess the Saints OC is responsible for not coaching around potential pass interferences then ?


Sometimes I don't understand where this zero sum mentality is coming from. The Eagles playing well on offense doesn't automatically make Patricia a joke. Similarly, McDaniels outcoaching the Eagles defense with a brilliant gameplan doesn't make all of their coaches clowns.

I am sure both staffs would have done things differently if they were able to redo it but that doesn't mean that they didn't come up with the best they could at that point given the information they had and this is all you can really ask for.

 

[maust]

How is a play that was not legal because the Eagles didn't line up correctly on Patricia ?

Obviously Patricia didn't do his homework on the ineptitude of the zebras involved

 

[luuked]

If you’ve played any kind of organized sport in your life, you know that there is such a thing as momentum throughout points in the game. Be it positive or negative. Doesn’t mean that it will translate to a W or an L, because you’ve still got to take advantage of it either way. But it definitely exists. You already admitted as much yourself because you defined it.

If it can switch around between teams in a single drive multiple times within a single drive then it is meaningless. Look no farther than the favorite examples of some of the board clowns here which is that abysmal game we lost in 2015 against the Eagles and how people say the dropkick affected momentum.

Except 2 plays after the dropkick it was 3rd & 10+. Where was the momentum the Eagles gained for those two plays ? Did we have it back ? Was it on pause ? Then even though everything went wrong for them they suddenly convert a long pass (with a bit of luck) and suddenly have it back ? How did we lose it after two great plays ?

If it can ping-pong around like that then whats the inherent value except for sports writers and fans to frame a hindsight based narrative around it ?

Maybe my issue is that media and people have started to use it way too often to the point where it really doesn't describe anything relevant anymore whereas you think of it more of the "playing with confidence" or "flow" kinda way that I was talking about.

 

[Hyped]

We were a Johnson Bademosi missed tackle from winning SB 52 and probably a missed PAT away from winning SB 50....

Still eats at me, LOL.

 

[Kontradiction]

If it can ping-pong around like that then whats the inherent value except for sports writers and fans to frame a hindsight based narrative around it ?

Maybe my issue is that media and people have started to use it way too often to the point where it really doesn't describe anything relevant anymore whereas you think of it more of the "playing with confidence" or "flow" kinda way that I was talking about.

Because football is the kind of game that can change in a single play. A reeling defense can pick the ball off at the 10 and trot it in for a score. Because it can change hands quickly does not negate the fact that momentum exists in sports, and especially in American football. You have the GOAT HC of all time saying outright that it exists. I can find you multiple examples of all-time great athletes across every sport referencing momentum that they either had or lost.

Back to my question - were you hoping the Pats won the OT coin toss in Super Bowl 51, or were you indifferent about it either way?

 

[40yrpatsfan]

And it's not like the offense was giving the defense a ton of help. They didn't possess the ball a ton (33:10 is pretty good but not over-the-top dominating). They didn't roll up the points so that the defense could just focus on stopping the Rams' passing attack. This was a nip-and-tuck game where the defense needed to play ALL GAME LONG at the top of their ability.

And they did it.

I agree - the best Super Bowl performance, all things considered, by any defense ever.

Mid way through the 2nd half we had 3 or 4 consecutive 3 and outs, and I was beyond frustrated but Brady just trotted off the field with no anger or emotion, like a summertime scrimmage game. And it struck me that their plan was to wait the Rams out, not press or make any mistakes on offense, and that they knew LA wasn't gonna score. And BB on the sideline at one point told his D that the Rams couldn't score on them as long as the defense lined up right and ran the right play.

The whole team was playing for a 13-3 result from the get go.

 

[Steve102]

Amen, it was def a "What the hell is there to discuss?' moment.

It was the first time I popped open the celebratory bottle of bourbon before the game was over. My buddy was all over me.

What are you doing?
This game is over. 1:12 left, two scores. We are all set. Pour it.

 

[ivanvamp]

Mid way through the 2nd half we had 3 or 4 consecutive 3 and outs, and I was beyond frustrated but Brady just trotted off the field with no anger or emotion, like a summertime scrimmage game. And it struck me that their plan was to wait the Rams out, not press or make any mistakes on offense, and that they knew LA wasn't gonna score. And BB on the sideline at one point told his D that the Rams couldn't score on them as long as the defense lined up right and ran the right play.

The whole team was playing for a 10-3 result from the get go.

I don't agree with your last statement. The Pats were trying to score right out of the chute, and BB also went for it on 4th down early in the game instead of kicking a field goal. They were trying to score as many points as possible without taking unnecessary risks. I'm 100% sure they'd rather have been up 20-3 rather than 10-3.

 

[ivanvamp]

Uh, I’m not so sure about that last sentence there, chief. It was a great performance, no doubt. But best performance by any defense, ever, in the Super Bowl?

I think so, given the caliber of opponent, yes. Here are, IMO, the candidates for best defensive performance in a Super Bowl:

SB 3 - Jets 16, Colts 7
SB 18 - Raiders 38, Redskins 9
SB 20 - Bears 46, Patriots 10
SB 35 - Ravens 34, Giants 7
SB 42 - Giants 17, Patriots 14
SB 48 - Seahawks 43, Broncos 8
SB 53 - Patriots 13, Rams 3

Ok so let's break those down.

SB 3: Colts had the #2 scoring, #4 yardage offense in the NFL that year. They averaged 28.7 points a game, so the Jets held them to 21.7 fewer points than average. They allowed 324 total yards to Baltimore that day.

SB 18: Redskins had the #1 scoring, #3 yardage offense in the NFL that year. They averaged 33.8 points a game, so the Raiders held them to 24.8 fewer points than average. They allowed just 283 total yards to Washington that day. But the Raiders blew them out, so it made defense easier as the game went on.

SB 20: Pats had the #10 scoring, #9 yardage offense in the NFL that year. They averaged 25.8 points a game, so the Bears held them to 15.8 fewer points than average. They allowed just 123 total yards to NE in that game, but just as was the case with SB 18, the Bears were up by so much that it made NE one-dimensional, and a bad one at that.

SB 35: Giants had the #15 scoring, #13 yardage offense in the NFL that year. They averaged 20.5 points a game, so the Ravens held them to 13.5 fewer points than average. They allowed just 152 total yards to NY in that game, but see the previous two situations, as the lopsided score made playing defense easier. Also, the Giants' offense was the definition of mediocre that year.

SB 42: Pats had the #1 scoring, #1 yardage offense in the NFL that year. They averaged 36.8 points a game, so the Giants held them to 22.8 fewer points than average. They allowed just 274 total yards to NE in that game. Great performance against maybe the greatest offense the NFL has ever seen. -sigh-

SB 48: Broncos had the #1 scoring, #1 yardage offense in the NFL that year. They averaged 37.9 points a game, so the Seahawks held them to 29.9 fewer points than average. They allowed just 306 total yards to Den in that game. Great performance against an all-time great offense, but the lopsided score made it far easier to play the suddenly one-dimensional Broncos' offense.

SB 53: Rams had the #2 scoring, #2 yardage offense in the NFL that year. They averaged 32.9 points a game, so the Patriots held them to 29.9 fewer points than average. They allowed just 260 total yards to LA in that game. Great performance against one of the great offenses in history, AND the score was so tight all game long that there was absolutely no room for error.


So in SB 53, the Patriots tied the SB 48 Seahawks for the record of holding their opponents to more points under their average than any other team in SB history. Moreover, they held the Rams to fewer total yards than Seattle did Denver. AND the game was much tighter, meaning the defense had no margin for error all game long until the last drive of the game.

So yes, at WORST, it's on the short short list of best defensive performances in SB history, but a strong case can be made that it was numero uno, all things considered.

 

[Patjew]

For me it was watching it with my old man. Other than my kids, the Pats are what bind us most.

That and the halftime show which I cannot remember AT ALL.

 

[luuked]

Because football is the kind of game that can change in a single play.

Which again makes my point. There is no value to whatever people call momentum if anything can change within a single play. If it can just ping-pong between teams based on how a play ended then it is a completely redundant device just for the sake of narrative.

"Because C happened it must have been connected to A and B before".

Back to my question - were you hoping the Pats won the OT coin toss in Super Bowl 51, or were you indifferent about it either way?

Hoping that we win the coin toss had nothing to do with momentum. I think despite giving up their 28-3 lead if the Falcons had won the toss there was a legit chance they would have ended the game as well.

The word momentum just by its definition implies a continuous effect that holds at least for some time which it absolutely does not have as you have pointed out yourself. The Seahawks had "all the momentum" in the closing seconds of the SB and yet it didn't matter.

The way people tend to use the word is just to try to create some connection between random events thanks to hindsight.

I am simply sick of people trying to artifically create narratives out of their asses because it just enables them to keep ignoring how much of this highly complex game is often close to random chance.

 

[luuked]

We were a Johnson Bademosi missed tackle from winning SB 52 and probably a missed PAT away from winning SB 50....

Still eats at me, LOL.

Similarly, we are the Seahawks not running a ******ed pick play (pass all you want but make it absolute low risk; fade ?) and the Falcons running the ball and kicking a FG away from losing 49 and 51.

You shouldn't lament the ones you lose and take the ones you won in similar lucky fashion for granted at the same time.

 

[Kontradiction]

Which again makes my point. There is no value to whatever people call momentum if anything can change within a single play. If it can just ping-pong between teams based on how a play ended then it is a completely redundant device just for the sake of narrative.

"Because C happened it must have been connected to A and B before".

It can change on a single play because that’s the sport. That doesn’t negate the fact that momentum doesn’t exist. It does. That you’re saying otherwise has me asking myself whether or not you’ve ever actually played anything competitively.

Here’s another quote on momentum within a game, this time coming from the GOAT QB of all time...

Brady 10/26: "We've got a lot of momentum"

You now have direct quotes from the mouths of both the GOAT HC and the GOAT QB in the history of American football on momentum.

Hoping that we win the coin toss had nothing to do with momentum. I think despite giving up their 28-3 lead if the Falcons had won the toss there was a legit chance they would have ended the game as well.

The word momentum just by its definition implies a continuous effect that holds at least for some time which it absolutely does not have as you have pointed out yourself. The Seahawks had "all the momentum" in the closing seconds of the SB and yet it didn't matter.

The way people tend to use the word is just to try to create some connection between random events thanks to hindsight.

I am simply sick of people trying to artifically create narratives out of their asses because it just enables them to keep ignoring how much of this highly complex game is often close to random chance.

Sure it did. You hoped they’d win the coin toss because they couldn’t be stopped on offense late in the game once they started attacking the boundary. They had built momentum and had it going into the OT period. Therefore, you hoped they would get the ball back because you were confident that they could ride that positive momentum to score. Furthermore, there is literally nothing in the Oxford definition about momentum in sports stating a requirement that it “must be held for some time.” It’s sport. Big plays get you positive momentum. Big plays against you take it away. Hell, even if the only sport you play nowadays is a pick up game of hoops against other jabronis, you should be very familiar with momentum in sports.