Worst Case Scenario?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by SoCal Bong, Sep 18, 2007.

  1. SoCal Bong

    SoCal Bong Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    With respect to the league's request for Patriots video footage, what do you think the worst penalty/fine/punishment would be if it was found that the Patriots have video of the play signals for every game they have played for the last 10 years (or any extended duration).

    If the Pats already lost a first round pick and got fined $750k for doing this for one game, what might the league do if they find 50+ or 100+ instances of this?

    Yes I realize I am asking for speculation on a hypothetical situation. Maybe the underlying question is whether the fines and draft pick loss were really fitting of one instance of a rule violation or if it was intended to be broader than that.
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2007
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    There should be no additional penalty for video taping signals. We've paid for that. The only problem should be additional, different things. Whether it's something with headphones or if there's things on the tapes totally outside the scope of signs.
  3. roman_maroney

    roman_maroney Practice Squad Player

    the worst case scenario is if anything valid comes out of these reports stating that they are alleged to have had a D lineman mic'd up with a microphone that could listen to the opponents huddle in real-time.

    While I am pretty sure that is just some piling on, and nothing will come out of it because it wasnt being done... I don't even want to think of the repercussions for something that damning. That goes way beyond gamesmanship, advanced scouting, and competitive edge, and would be the worst case scenario.

    Not gonna happen, though. These new allegations come from the 0-2 Jets wanting a forfeit, and now doing anything they can to get one after the commish determined and stated clearly "after examining the FACTS" that the incident had "no impact on the outcome of the Jets game"
  4. naclone

    naclone Practice Squad Player

    yeah, the only way I see this getting worse is if something conclusive comes out of the investigation into the pats D linemen wearing wires during games or if something BB said to Goodell in his statement is found to be a massive misrepresentation of the truth. In other words, if Bill said, "I swear to God, this is the only time we've ever done this." and they have 10 years worth of tapes, that would be bad. If Bill said, "we've never used these tapes to decrypt the signals, only to study the tendencies of team personnel", and there are binders full of decrypted signals, then we're in trouble.

    Hopefully Belichick didn't say anything to try and get out of this that is going to come back to haunt us.
  5. National Sports Advisors

    National Sports Advisors Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    And if Bill sent any tapes to the NFL that would lead to futher penalties he would have to be the dumbest person alive. I mean, seriously, who in their right mind would do that? I would rather have the commissioner claim they didn't send all the tapes instead of giving them the actual copies if there are any.
  6. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    If there is more than Belichick and Kraft have indicated to the Commissioner, then Belichick will be suspended, if Kraft doesn't suspend him first. If it is within the framework of what ahs already been discussed there should be no further penalty.
  7. Bella*chick

    Bella*chick Addicted to the light

    #12 Jersey

    This is correct.

    We've already admitting to a rule misinterpretation. Therefore, it is no shock that we've done this a bunch of times. THe commissioner is taking all of our perceived "competitive advantage" from the rule misinterpretation to prevent us from enjoying any further gain, big or small.

    There would be trouble if we a. have withheld stuff b. made copies of the stuff we turn over and c. refuse to turn the rest of the stuff over.

    In terms of this defensive miking "investigation", I only recall Kramer saying the Jets were "seriously considering" asking for the investigation. Have they done so? Has that been confirmed?
  8. naclone

    naclone Practice Squad Player

    the problem with not turning everything over is that Goodell will summon guys like Mangini and Daboll and ask them what he's missing. If he feels like we are trying to evade the investigation he's likely to go on a rampage. transparency is almost always the right move because if you are evasive everyone assumes the worst. which we know from personal experience this week.
  9. godef

    godef In the Starting Line-Up

    The Commish is being a real hard-***** about this though, almost vindictive. Could there ever be a chance this could go to the courts if he continues to hound the Pats?
  10. patriotfan32

    patriotfan32 On the Roster

    If someone was really wired up, don't you think that this would have been brought to light by some ex player with an ax to grind? The Jets can make these accusations, but I have a hard time believing it.
  11. upstater1

    upstater1 Pro Bowl Player

    Why didn't the NFL look into this last year when this is exactly what the Dolphins did?

    I bet you anything that miking d-lineman is more widespread than videotaping signals.
  12. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    There seems to be a little uncertainty whether Saban got the audibles through players mics or from buying the network audio iso tape (most say the latter but Mort said the former in a thread here somewhere). Either way the end result is the same.
  13. PatsFanSince74

    PatsFanSince74 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    BB has as much as admitted that he did this before because of his "misinterpretation." So, if that's what Goodell is looking for, then he's up the proverbial creek. However, I don't think that's the case and that he would be penalized again for this "crime." Even Peter King, who is no friend of BB's in this regard, said he thinks it's unlikely that any further penalties will result from this. I think they're looking for other stuff, whatever that might be.
  14. psychoPat

    psychoPat Role Player PatsFans.com Supporter

    yields more and better documentation
    than what one party turns over to the other
    in legal discovery.

    Relax, boys n girls.
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2007
  15. Halifax_Pats_Fan

    Halifax_Pats_Fan In the Starting Line-Up

    worst case senario....the Patriots would have to play in the CFL for a year...

  16. ClevTrev

    ClevTrev Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    The team's issue is if the satellite launched by Krafty Enterprises and shared with Orbital is discovered filming all opponents' practices. This is something the team is definitely concerned about and is doing everything they can to correct this situation by positioning it so the Orbital brand is plainly visible.

    The Elvis with a camera brand is to be rotated and positioned away from the earth using the onboard thrusters. It's felt that it won't be discovered until well beyond the completion of BB's contract term. At that time, it's felt that the Patriots will be so good, that they'll be required to announce their plays in advance to enable the opponents a slim chance in stopping them. This will be referred to as the next step in NFL parity and embraced by media and fans alike.
  17. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Ummmm, I think some people are missing the point. Remember what Bills defense likely was. "I've been doing it for years as I like to catalog coaches tendencies and what not for my library. I did so because of you're lame ass, contradictory by-laws and rules, I thought as long as I wasn't using it for in game use, I was okay (despite the memo you sent telling me not too :singing: ). "

    When Goodell said "Nice try, Bill, but that not gonna fly. You know you can't do that."

    The logical next step is to say ---- "Okay Bill, since we now both know all the tapes were obtained in violation of the rules, you know I can't let you just keep them. You gonna have to give them up so you don't use them in the future to gain some competitive edge."

    Bill: "Okay, I understand {note to self: makes copies, send originals}.

    The rhetoric about continued investigation, blaa, blaa blaa is done....... My guess is they watch about 4 tapes and say, this is boring crap and don't even bother. A few weeks later there will be a statement saying the No evidence of further wrongdoing.

    I think the leak video tape will have that a calming effect. NO ONE will want that investigation to get off the ground. Imagine the ramifications of being busted for that.

    The damage left in its wake will remain, but I think the eye of the storm has moved off shore now.
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2007
  18. Bella*chick

    Bella*chick Addicted to the light

    #12 Jersey

    Again, I think this is 100% correct. Except the copies thing...they are specifically saying if they ever find out we made copies, we'll be dead meat.

    And how could they find out? Another rat turncoat like Mangini.

    Other than that I think this correct.

    I don't think they are looking to widen the penalty. But then, with this story nothing would surprise me any more.

    I think the longer this stupidity goes on, the more everyone just wants to see it go away.
  19. ClevTrev

    ClevTrev Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    Consider that Goodell's ultimate goal aside from maintaining the game's credibility is to put an end to this mindless speculation and false accusations. How does he do that?

    He reviews all of the Patriots' video tape and makes the following statement: "After a thorough review of the New England Patriots' video tapes and taping procedures, I've found no further violations by the team. The penalty stands and the matter is closed with regards to the team found in violation. Vigilant observation and comprehensive league-wide measures are now in place to prevent this from happening in the future, as we are taking our efforts to preserve the ethical standards of the game very seriously. We are prepared to revisit this issue should we find any other team not complying with this rule."

    This will effectively stop the media circus once and for all except for those who have an axe to grind. After awhile, that grinding will be transferred to some other issue.
  20. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    I was actually kidding there. I'm quite sure Goodell {and Kraft} worked the lanquage out exactly for that specific reason. Give us the tapes and it's over.

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