Wes Welker Contract Talk

[convertedpatsfan]

I didnt know he went back on the name bit, that's rather disappointing, I was hoping he'd turned over a new leaf. That said I'm forced to agree with you, I don't want him on my team if he's not willing to ditch "OchoCinco" and I hope BB is of the same opinion.

Really? It's the name that makes the difference here? Not the drop in production or the constant tweets or the bull-riding or the reality TV show. But he doesn't change his name back and that's the deal-breaker?

 

[Ring 6]

I think you don't quite give Johnson enough credit as a player, he'd have rough spots but I think he'd take direction from BB just fine, and I think they would both have realistic expectations.

OchoCinco is a bit of a marketing gimmick, IMO, one which he gave up. The guy has a top-notch work-ethic and I dont have any doubt he would get right in line under BB and do what he was told.

I can't really assess his work ethic from my living room, but even if it is Jerry Rice-like, what is clear is that he is working for himself, and is not a team player, and IMO would fail miserably in our locker room.
On top of that, the fact that he doesnt produce much any more kind of takes away the whole reason to want to acquire him.
His production the last 3 years has been less than 60% of what is was the 3 before that when he was a great WR. Now he is 33 years old, with declining production.
Moss? Ocho? Are you guys trying to gather up every WR who was good in his prime and over the hill now?

 

[Snake Eyes]

Really? It's the name that makes the difference here? Not the drop in production or the constant tweets or the bull-riding or the reality TV show. But he doesn't change his name back and that's the deal-breaker?

It demonstrates that he's not willing to part with his past identity.

I would have taken a chance on him IF he ditched the name, got rid of the stupid mouth grill, no TV shows while on the Patriots, took a deal for the league minimum with NO guaranteed money and incentives based on production, and a "once strike and you're out" clause.

IF he was willing to do that I'd take a chance on him, since he hasn't demonstrated that he's willing to become a team player I wouldnt waste my time on him.

 

[Ring 6]

It demonstrates that he's not willing to part with his past identity.

I would have taken a chance on him IF he ditched the name, got rid of the stupid mouth grill, no TV shows while on the Patriots, took a deal for the league minimum with NO guaranteed money and incentives based on production, and a "once strike and you're out" clause.

IF he was willing to do that I'd take a chance on him, since he hasn't demonstrated that he's willing to become a team player I wouldnt waste my time on him.

In others words he'd be great for our team if he was just an entirely different person.

 

[Snake Eyes]

In others words he'd be great for our team if he was just an entirely different person.

Moss wasn't exactly a model citizen before he came here, neither was Cory Dillon, but they became solid Patriots. I would have be open to the possibility that Ocho realized most of his career was behind him and decided to grow up and do what was necessary to get a ring before he left the game, people are capable of turning over a new leaf, but since he's not willing to ditch "Ocho" I don't have time for him.

 

[Ring 6]

Moss wasn't exactly a model citizen before he came here, neither was Cory Dillon, but they became solid Patriots. I would have be open to the possibility that Ocho realized most of his career was behind him and decided to grow up and do what was necessary to get a ring before he left the game, people are capable of turning over a new leaf, but since he's not willing to ditch "Ocho" I don't have time for him.

Moss and Dillon have nothing to do with Ocho. He is no more or less likely to change because they were miscast as bad attitudes before getting here.
I dont think what he calls himself means anything, but Dillon and Moss were thought to have bad attitudes because they were outspoken about losing. Ocho is 100% self promotion, 24/7 and even if not, he doesnt produce like a good WR any longer and is 33.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Moss and Dillon have nothing to do with Ocho. He is no more or less likely to change because they were miscast as bad attitudes before getting here.
I dont think what he calls himself means anything, but Dillon and Moss were thought to have bad attitudes because they were outspoken about losing. Ocho is 100% self promotion, 24/7 and even if not, he doesnt produce like a good WR any longer and is 33.

Where are you going with all this? I thought he could be a productive player here based upon certain circumstances, it's obvious that those circumstances don't exist and I've therefore changed my opinion and no longer want him here. Just so we can be completely clear and there's no confusion:

I DON'T WANT OCHO ON THE PATRIOTS!

There, all better now? I'm done discussing this, if you're simply looking to argue talk to someone else.

 

[Ring 6]

Where are you going with all this? I thought he could be a productive player here based upon certain circumstances, it's obvious that those circumstances don't exist and I've therefore changed my opinion and no longer want him here. Just so we can be completely clear and there's no confusion:

I DON'T WANT OCHO ON THE PATRIOTS!

There, all better now? I'm done discussing this, if you're simply looking to argue talk to someone else.

I'm sorry, I didnt know I wasn't allowed to disagree with you.
I was simply pointing out that you were asking the guy to be something totally opposite of what he is, and qualified it by saying if he changed his name back to Chad Johnson, you would think he would be a good fit.
I am just saying that he is an aging, declining, selfcentered player.
You were the one who said that Dillon and Moss were proof that he could be, so if there is an argument, its you creating it.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

It demonstrates that he's not willing to part with his past identity.

I would have taken a chance on him IF he ditched the name, got rid of the stupid mouth grill, no TV shows while on the Patriots, took a deal for the league minimum with NO guaranteed money and incentives based on production, and a "once strike and you're out" clause.

IF he was willing to do that I'd take a chance on him, since he hasn't demonstrated that he's willing to become a team player I wouldnt waste my time on him.

That's understandable, but it's pretty clear he hasn't changed, no matter what his last name is.

In the past 5 months alone, he's talked about setting up a steel cage match to fight his head coach, tweeted about wanting to be on several other teams despite still being under contract with the Bengals, tried out for a Major League Soccer team, challenged Tom Zbikowksi and Ndamukong Suh to fights (joking around, but still), and tried to ride a bull as a publicity stunt.

What exactly had made you think he turned over a new leaf?

 

[borg]

Let's see. Head coach benches WR for telling some foot jokes....yet some believe this same head coach would embrace Ocho D bag....a guy more interested in celebrity, a guy who openly challenges his head coach, a guy willing to subject his team to celebration penalties....etc....etc....etc.
Clearly, some haven't paid attention to how Bill Belichick runs his football team

 

[Uncle Rico]

I thought these comments were a lot more pertinent to this thread...

You might be right. At this point it's all rhetoric, and there are many factors that can go into the negotiation: Welker's fondness for the Patriots, Welker's amazing productivity, major knee surgery, age, evolving offense, development of young receivers, being benched to start a playoff game because of comments to the media, the owners — among whom Kraft has significant sway — using Welker's joking comments against players in court documents. And, apparently from where this thread has gone since your post, the symbolic significance of "Johnson" vs. "Ochocinco."

I do agree with the notion that Welker is a perfect Patriots player and I think he's in for a big season (if they play). It all comes down to how much the Patriots will be willing to pay a player his age going forward, and his willingness to choose potential championships over money.