Well, the MVP was named, and it's a total joke: Peyton Manning, once again

[MassPats38]

If we put the jersey and the colts rivalry aside not too many would complain.although i have to agree its more of a popularity vote than reality because king etc want a big name to win the MVP. giving it to a rookie like ryan was not possible for them and brees didnt even make the playoffs.Pennington coulve won but brady didnt win in 2006 either when he took reche caldwell to the AFCCG

Again, I do not claim to be a Manning fan but I actually did not disagree with his prior two MVP awards. I also cannot stand Polian's Colts and they top my list of hated teams, so I would prefer to see literally any other team win.

With that said, I respect Manning's abilities (arm, accuracy and field presence) and his status as one of the QB greats. I like the fact he is in the AFC, and do not consider the Colts a threat without him. But this year, with a QB 15 yards away from breaking a season passing record, better in all statistical categories, with fewer weapons, who kept his team in games with a terrible defense, my opinion is Brees deserved it more this season. A QB represents half of the equation, so he can only compensate so much for an inept defense in the wins columns.

And as for Favre, the years he won the award, he generally deserved it. That was a very different Favre than he is now. TDs, yards, fewer INTs, etc. all consistent with an MVP QB. And I will agree, it is often a popularity poll - in this case because other winners would be first-time while Manning's is historical. That place in history should be won, not handed to him in what would typically be an off season for him.

 

[maverick4]

That was always my point and that Brady would probably play different if he had to score every possession. Pats fans spun it as if i was making an excuse for Manning.

Yeah, like Peyton has to score every possession, because his defense was only top-2 twice in the last 4 years, and from 01-04 was still an upper half ranked defense.

The most sad thing about your pathetic excuses are that by bringing up the defense argument, you basically admit that Peyton lets big game pressure get to him and is not mentally strong: a choker.

 

[ScottieC]

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, need some tissue Mr. Sniffles?

Nope. My boys have 3 Super Bowl Championships and 4 SB appearences in the last 7 years. I'm good. Thanks!

 

[BlueCoats]

Us: "Manning doesn't deserve the MVP ths year, though he deserved it other years. Also, he benefits from playing in a dome and his postseason performance has been mostly forgetful, if not horrible."

Colts fans: "Manning does not suck! Brady sucks because he was a low-round pick! Suck on the 2008 MVP!"

Us: "Uh, what?"

My second post: "I knew that was coming when i posted that. Winning the SB is a team accomplishment. Brady would have zero rings if he had the '01, '03, and '04 Colts defenses. Brady or Manning do not tackle any one for a living."

I said i knew that was coming because he mentioned peyton having only 1 SB ring in a post where i mentioned peyton has 3 MVP trophies now, and my point was it's a team game and Brady wouldn't have won one with our defenses in '01, '03, and '04. A point no one has yet answered and only brought up peytons numbers to make him seem bad.

This shows your post is a lie and proves you didn't read the whole thread like you said you did. I didn't start anything on Brady's position in the draft which went over your head.

 

[MassPats38]

you can tell it's a down year in these forums

And yet here you are anyway. I'll take that as an acknowledgment that the Colts are a team happy the Jets choked in their last game. That 18-15 home win probably would have not turned out as well in the Razor in January. Enjoy your good fortune at the Jets' suckishness and keep telling yourself the Colts would have won the rematch. Enjoy the post-season, because once Dungy leaves it will be a return to the bad ol' days when the Colts always enjoyed the full offseason rather than one cut short by playoff appearances.

 

[maverick4]

It's a team game both peyton and the defense has to play well to win a SB, you also need luck something the pats have had. If this is wrong tell me why.

Aside from the win-loss stats, I fail to see how it's a "team game" that contributed to Peyton's sorry looking playoff passing stats, even though he has had all star supporting talent on offense his entire career.

It is too funny talking to a Colts fan who will never admit his QB was the reason his team lost a playoff game.

 

[ScottieC]

It's a team game both peyton and the defense has to play well to win a SB, you also need luck something the pats have had. If this is wrong tell me why.

Big Ben did not need to play well to win a ring. In fact, he played down right horrible.

 

[maverick4]

Dungy I love how you just wrote that long winded post filled with regular season stats, but...everyone here knows about the greatness of A-Rod Manning during the regular season. He will be the best ever at accumulating stats and then choking when it matters in January, we get this.

PLEASE explain to me why Peyton Manning's career playoff passing stats suck, despite having all star supporting players his entire career, and a top-2 scoring defense twice in the past 4 years?

It would be great if you could somehow tie that into why Brady's career playoff stats are way better, despite spending most of his years running an offense full of no-names who did nothing after leaving the Pats.

 

[maverick4]

Bad stats or not he's still going to the HOF, you guys will be crying on that day about how he shouldn't be a hall of famer.

He is a 1st ballot hall of famer no doubt, but to have 3 MVP's and choke so consistently come playoff time, that is just embarrassing.

 

[Deus Irae]

Did you not see where i said peyton and the defense both have to play well for a team to win a SB? I never said peyton never played bad in a playoff game, something which has nothing to do with someone winning the MVP, a regular season award. Quit spinning my font into things which you want me to say and not what i actually said.

Bad stats or not he's still going to the HOF, you guys will be crying on that day about how he shouldn't be a hall of famer.

Why would we be crying about that? Like Marino, he's among the all-time best at the position, even though he gas-pipes it in the playoffs.

 

[wrinkle]

The real joke is all the crying being done on this forum about Manning winning the MVP, grow up you bunch of WhinyBabies!!

 

[SVN]

Fine you don't like Peyton Manning but at least have a credible argument to back up your opinion.

Colts have a great D? The Colts have the WORST 3rd down defense in the NFL - as a result of this the Colts are ranked 26th in TOP and have the FEWEST offensive possessions per game in the NFL with 144 drives on the season (worst in the NFL). Despite this, they are 1st in drive success rate (down series that result in a firstdown or touchdown), 2nd in yards per drive and 4th in points per drive - in other words, the Colts do the most with each posession despite having the fewest opportunities and despite having the 31st rushing attack.

what is your RZ defense ranking.? That is as big a difference as manning in you guys winning a lot games. So dont discount your defense as much as you want to credit manning.Your defense is the reason peyton has had chances to keep the colts in the game.If you had a 31st ranked RZ defense ,you will not be in the playoffs IMO

 

[maverick4]

It depends on what you call choking, if losing in the playoffs is choking then Brady has lost playoff games too. Losing while you're 18-0 is choking.

you pats fans aren't logically consistent, i study philosophy so i can see that and use your same arguments against you guys. Hear me out for a second. Pats fans admit a dome helps a QB, yet when peyton throws INT's in a windy and snowy foxboro the weather suddenly disappears for a reason why peyton might have struggled that game and it's just that peyton sucks.

Yet he can throw for 402 and eat the chargers secondary alive in a playoff game and if he loses he still chokes. He can shred Denver and all the sudden peyton is only doing that cause the other team sucks, but he's suppose to crumble in the playoffs.
.

I already posted the stats for you. Peyton Manning's career playoff passing numbers are horrible for a 3-time MVP, despite having amazing supporting talent around him his entire career.

You are right, Brady did choke last season, 18-1. But including that, he is 14 wins and 3 losses in the playoffs. Peyton is 7 losses, 7 wins. So comparing win-loss and "chokes", Peyton loses.

When we ignore win-loss and look at passing stats, Peyton's numbers also lose.

Sorry, looks like a major league choker to me. The A-Rod of football.

 

[SVN]

Again, I do not claim to be a Manning fan but I actually did not disagree with his prior two MVP awards. I also cannot stand Polian's Colts and they top my list of hated teams, so I would prefer to see literally any other team win.

With that said, I respect Manning's abilities (arm, accuracy and field presence) and his status as one of the QB greats. I like the fact he is in the AFC, and do not consider the Colts a threat without him. But this year, with a QB 15 yards away from breaking a season passing record, better in all statistical categories, with fewer weapons, who kept his team in games with a terrible defense, my opinion is Brees deserved it more this season. A QB represents half of the equation, so he can only compensate so much for an inept defense in the wins columns.

And as for Favre, the years he won the award, he generally deserved it. That was a very different Favre than he is now. TDs, yards, fewer INTs, etc. all consistent with an MVP QB. And I will agree, it is often a popularity poll - in this case because other winners would be first-time while Manning's is historical. That place in history should be won, not handed to him in what would typically be an off season for him.

but the MVP is rarely given for who is most valuable,its usually stats or some superstardom. Brees lost out due to the fact that his team didnt make the playoffs.
I cna make the case the Brady was more deserving in 2006 and 2005 and 2004 when he won with so many moving parts and no superstar wideouts.
Of the 3 mvps manning has won i think this has been his hardest season to win.The 49 TD season, he hardly any issues with injuries and marvin and edge were in prime.

 

[ScottieC]

I already posted the stats for you. Peyton Manning's career playoff passing numbers are horrible for a 3-time MVP, despite having amazing supporting talent around him his entire career.

You are right, Brady did choke last season, 18-1. But including that, he is 14 wins and 3 losses in the playoffs. Peyton is 7 losses, 7 wins. So comparing win-loss and "chokes", Peyton loses.

When we ignore win-loss and look at passing stats, Peyton's numbers also lose.

Sorry, looks like a major league choker to me. The A-Rod of football.

What? In what game did he choke? The Super Bowl? What was he supposed to do Block for himself AND throw throw ball?

You can lay that loss at a lot of feet before you ever get to Brady.

 

[Deus Irae]

It depends on what you call choking, if losing in the playoffs is choking then Brady has lost playoff games too. Losing while you're 18-0 is choking.

Brady is 14-3 in the playoffs. Manning is 7-7. Try to grasp the difference.

you pats fans aren't logically consistent, i study philosophy so i can see that and use your same arguments against you guys. Hear me out for a second. Pats fans admit a dome helps a QB, yet when peyton throws INT's in a windy and snowy foxboro the weather suddenly disappears for a reason why peyton might have struggled that game and it's just that peyton sucks.

1.) philosophy ≠ logic

2.) A dome DOES help a quarterback's numbers. This is just a statistical reality.

3.) Manning struggling outside that dome is evidence that he's not as good a quarterback if he doesn't have perfect conditions.

In other words, your argument really isn't much of an argument.

Yet he can throw for 402 and eat the chargers secondary alive in a playoff game and if he loses he still chokes. He can shred Denver and all the sudden peyton is only doing that cause the other team sucks, but he's suppose to crumble in the playoffs.

He comes back against the pats when after a bad first half he's suppose to crumble cause he's mentally weak but when he comes back blame the flu or polian and the heat. you guys seriously don't think at all.

The irony of you belittling our thought process is interesting, particularly considering your initial tact of blaming your team's defense when it was Manning choking. As for the Patriots game, all a rational person should need to do is take a look at who was on the field for the Patriots defense in that second half. That should be enough for them to understand. Manning apologists ignore the obvious, because they can't just admit that they've got a quarterback who's a regular season stud and a post season dud.

 

[MassPats38]

you pats fans aren't logically consistent, i study philosophy so i can see that and use your same arguments against you guys. Hear me out for a second. Pats fans admit a dome helps a QB, yet when peyton throws INT's in a windy and snowy foxboro the weather suddenly disappears for a reason why peyton might have struggled that game and it's just that peyton sucks.

As a student of philosophy, you would be capable of distinguishing the study of general problems, ie., philosophy, from logic and argument. Apparently your school omits that course from its curriculum.

I'll break the argument down for you.

Premise: Manning plays in a dome.
Premise: Dome play represents an easier environment.
Conclusion: Manning plays in an easier environment.

Premise: Great QBs perform well in all environments.
Premise: Brady performs well in all environments.
Conclusion: Brady is a great QB.

The fact that Manning does not perform well in weather supports the argument he is a dome QB and not an all-round great QB for all environments. As a student of philosophy as you claim to be, that should be apparent. I have heard you for a second, and you in fact have defeated your own argument.

And you need an IQ of a level not reflected in your posts to flip arguments against the proponent of the argument (your "Jedi mind trick" aura is not as apparent as you seem to believe it to be). Go to school, study logic and argument, and come back when you are ready.

It has been amusing talking to the fans of the blue horseshoe. Feel free to return in a week or two when the Colts are bounced from the post-season and we can talk about your team's dark future sans-Dungy. Until then, peace out.

 

[Leave No Doubt]

Sorry for the delay, sometimes it is hard to find the actual football discussion in these threads.

It's a good point, but I'm just not willing to give Pennington that much credit with Ronnie Brown, a stud new left tackle in Long, Tuna, a new coach and staff.

And I agree leadership or inspiring his team's confidence absolutely counts and in a big way. However, for MVP of the league you have to be the best player on your team, at least, and have, at least, a very very good statistical season, imo.

I like Pennington and what he did this year, but more in the way I like what Tennesee's QB did, not in a way that I think he should be MVP of the whole league.

I'd give it to your boy Cassel before Pennington, actually. Not that I'd give it to either, though.

Well, in that case (and no doubt you're right-I just have my own criteria for MVP-isms) then maybe Ronnie Brown should've gotten it. I just disagree with stats carrying that much weight because the stats can easily sneak up and become the player's goal but that's another topic.

MattyIce should get some recognition too, and the fact you'd give it to him over Penny makes you OK in my book Don't come here looking for Peyton Props tho. Pats fans realize his abilities and all that, but we also have LONGGGG memories of Lord Manning

 

[MassPats38]

but the MVP is rarely given for who is most valuable,its usually stats or some superstardom. Brees lost out due to the fact that his team didnt make the playoffs.
I cna make the case the Brady was more deserving in 2006 and 2005 and 2004 when he won with so many moving parts and no superstar wideouts.
Of the 3 mvps manning has won i think this has been his hardest season to win.The 49 TD season, he hardly any issues with injuries and marvin and edge were in prime.

Agree on all counts. It's just a shame to see the award handed out on less than solid grounds. I would classify 2006 as Brady's best season with the tools around him, but he never got the acclaim he should have for that year. In the end, I don't think it matters much to Brady because he has always said the trophy matters the most to him personally (the "next ring").

 

[ScottieC]

observe the Patriots fans train of thought , this same excuse coming from a colts fan and all we hear is "Mannings a choker he's the sole reason for every loss"

but notice for Patriot fans how its okay to credit the team with the losses, but all 14 of those playoff wins were ONLY because of Brady's immortality , riight

Ok, before you gloss over this with sarcasm - answer me a question, actually two:

1. Did you watch the Super Bowl last year?

if so,

2. Do you think Tom Brady Choked.