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The Old-Tyme PatsFans Draft Contest


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I don't know about you, but I have a real hunch about that Malcolm Willliams kid.

Who the hell is that? I'm guessing Herzlich instead!
 
you had a great list, but i hate to break it to you...the cannon pick doesn't count because he was the 11th of 12 in your list of 9. :bricks:

I tend to miss things, but who won?

A suggestion, the winners name should be posted as a Sticky for the entire year. Kind of like wearing a public championship belt, each year the frustrated masses compete for the coveted belt and insignificant sense of self worth.
 
And the winning score was: 2.

Not a huge number, but in a year when 2 of the Pats picks were too obscure for NFL.com to even know their height, very respectable. And as a group, we put in a strong showing -- I counted 30 different posters who got at least one pick right, and 5 tied for the win. Your 2011 PatsFans draft champions:

jays52
Seneschal2
jmt57
OldEngland
Thirdbasekid24

:eat1:

Vereen was the most common correct pick with 14 votes. Solder got 12, Dowling 7, Ridley and Mallett one apiece. After round 3, nada.

Come back next year for another round of ritual humbling!

Indeed very humbling, as usual. Nice job guys.

I say post their names as a sticky, official belt holders for the year. Something for us to strive for. I almost looked at a list of 2012 prospects, it never stops.

Have a nice summer, hopefully there is football by August.
 
Ryan Kerrigan, Purdue - went pick 16, I think some sort of trade could have been worked out, also Robery Quinn was within reach
Cameron Heyward, Ohio State - could have picked
Orlando Franklin, Miami - went 46, good have picked at 33 or traded back
Ryan Williams, Virginia Tech - went 38, may not have been available
John Moffit, Nebraska - went 75, in round 3, was available
Bruce Carter, North Carolina - went pick 40, may not have been available
Andre Holmes, Hillsdale - went undrafted
Allen Bailey, Miami - went 86, was available
Buster Skrine, Tennessee-Chattanooga - was available, went pick 137


Mr. hindsight... this column is called "I still like my draft better"

Test 1 - were the players available - results, most were available
Test 2 - are the drafted players making an impact, it is tough to get analysis on most of the players but Kerrigan was player of the month, I will try to find info on the rest but will start and end my argument with "Kerrigan was player of the month"

It would have added a youth infusion to the front seven. The problem is re-building a front seven takes years, and the Patriots haven't made the necessary investments and are forced to try and catch lightening in a bottle with has been vets (Ellis, Haynesworth, Warren, etc.).

On the flip side they invested significantly in the secondary, the jury is still out but the verdict is leaning heavily towards poor talent evaluation.

It may be too late for Brady but hopefully this is some sort of lesson learned, the front seven requires constant grooming, lots of draft picks and a free agents sprinkled in. Just my opinion but even in the pass heavy NFL I would rather have a superior front seven and an ok secondary than the inverse.

At this point I have to question the Patriots team building approach and overall strategy. The drafts are disjointed and without a clear pattern, other than trade back, make lots of picks and spread the risk across a lot of mediocre talent.
 
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Mr. hindsight... this column is called "I still like my draft better"

Test 1 - were the players available - results, most were available
Test 2 - are the drafted players making an impact, it is tough to get analysis on most of the players but Kerrigan was player of the month, I will try to find info on the rest but will start and end my argument with "Kerrigan was player of the month"

It would have added a youth infusion to the front seven. The problem is re-building a front seven takes years, and the Patriots haven't made the necessary investments and are forced to try and catch lightening in a bottle with has been vets (Ellis, Haynesworth, Warren, etc.).

On the flip side they invested significantly in the secondary, the jury is still out but the verdict is leaning heavily towards poor talent evaluation.

It may be too late for Brady but hopefully this is some sort of lesson learned, the front seven requires constant grooming, lots of draft picks and a free agents sprinkled in. Just my opinion but even in the pass heavy NFL I would rather have a superior front seven and an ok secondary than the inverse.

At this point I have to question the Patriots team building approach and overall strategy. The drafts are disjointed and without a clear pattern, other than trade back, make lots of picks and spread the risk across a lot of mediocre talent.

I agree, BB has over drafted the secondary and ignored a depleted DL situation.

I like the scheme behind the 2011 draft. He reinforced one of the two lines first, then looked to the secondary and then RB.

For the 2012 draft, he needs to use his highest pick for the D Line and/or DE/OLB and then safety and O line help followed by more D Line developmental help.
 
Couldn't agree more.

I understand that Solder has been invaluable because of the season-threatening back injury to Vollmer
(the reason why nobody had him rated as worthy of a top-60 pick), but either Kerrigan or Cam Jordan
sure would look good in our front-7 right now, and Solder still might've been avail. at 28.

But even if Solder's the pick at 17, then either Brooks Reed or Jabaal Sheard would've been a helluva lot
better than glass-made Ras IR Dowling at 33...or Justin Houston, Martez Wilson or Allen Bailey
instead of MIA RB Vereen at 56...or Chris Carter, Pernell McPhee, Chykie Brown or Tyler Sash
instead of UDFA-talent, blocking-only TE Lee Smith...or Mark Herzlich, Greg Romeus, Cliff Matthews,
Jeremy Beal, Brandon Bair, Pierre Allen, Ugo Chinasa, Lawrence Guy, Eric Hagg, Jeron Johnson,
Joe Lefeged, or Jerrod Tarrant instead of the pile of useless garbage that was Mal Williams.
 
Couldn't agree more.

I understand that Solder has been invaluable because of the season-threatening back injury to Vollmer
(the reason why nobody had him rated as worthy of a top-60 pick), but either Kerrigan or Cam Jordan
sure would look good in our front-7 right now, and Solder still might've been avail. at 28.

But even if Solder's the pick at 17, then either Brooks Reed or Jabaal Sheard would've been a helluva lot
better than glass-made Ras IR Dowling at 33...or Justin Houston, Martez Wilson or Allen Bailey
instead of MIA RB Vereen at 56...or Chris Carter, Pernell McPhee, Chykie Brown or Tyler Sash
instead of UDFA-talent, blocking-only TE Lee Smith...or Mark Herzlich, Greg Romeus, Cliff Matthews,
Jeremy Beal, Brandon Bair, Pierre Allen, Ugo Chinasa, Lawrence Guy, Eric Hagg, Jeron Johnson,
Joe Lefeged, or Jerrod Tarrant instead of the pile of useless garbage that was Mal Williams.

Also in my mind, it is much easier to find UDFA secondary help than DL or pass rushing help. BB has a history of finding a lot of secondary guys on the open market and hit yet again last year with Arrington.

If BB drafts Sheard instead of Dowling, I would have been very upbeat about our draft. Instead he takes an injured Dowling and guess what, Dowling is injured again.

BB must get back to fortifying the D line and finally addressing the DE/OLB spot with EARLY draft picks. And a few developmental DE/OLB players would not hurt as well, and keep us out of the veteran retread market.
 
Couldn't agree more.

But even if Solder's the pick at 17, then either Brooks Reed or Jabaal Sheard would've been a helluva lot
better than glass-made Ras IR Dowling at 33...or Justin Houston, Martez Wilson or Allen Bailey
instead of MIA RB Vereen at 56...or Chris Carter, Pernell McPhee, Chykie Brown or Tyler Sash
instead of UDFA-talent, blocking-only TE Lee Smith...or Mark Herzlich, Greg Romeus, Cliff Matthews,
Jeremy Beal, Brandon Bair, Pierre Allen, Ugo Chinasa, Lawrence Guy, Eric Hagg, Jeron Johnson,
Joe Lefeged, or Jerrod Tarrant instead of the pile of useless garbage that was Mal Williams.

I absolutely agree that if you have the knowledge of four weeks of an NFL season, it is easy to put together a draft class that in 3 years might be better than the one BB actually drafted.

The thing that I've been trying to figure is why BB passed on all of those 4-3 pass rushers if he was planning on changing his defense to a 4-3 base.
 
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Couldn't agree more.

I understand that Solder has been invaluable because of the season-threatening back injury to Vollmer
(the reason why nobody had him rated as worthy of a top-60 pick), but either Kerrigan or Cam Jordan
sure would look good in our front-7 right now, and Solder still might've been avail. at 28.

But even if Solder's the pick at 17, then either Brooks Reed or Jabaal Sheard would've been a helluva lot
better than glass-made Ras IR Dowling at 33...or Justin Houston, Martez Wilson or Allen Bailey
instead of MIA RB Vereen at 56...or Chris Carter, Pernell McPhee, Chykie Brown or Tyler Sash
instead of UDFA-talent, blocking-only TE Lee Smith...or Mark Herzlich, Greg Romeus, Cliff Matthews,
Jeremy Beal, Brandon Bair, Pierre Allen, Ugo Chinasa, Lawrence Guy, Eric Hagg, Jeron Johnson,
Joe Lefeged, or Jerrod Tarrant instead of the pile of useless garbage that was Mal Williams.

Although it’s possible that Solder would have been there at #28 how much would you want to risk it? IMO the priority off the team should be keeping TFB upright, he’s the biggest impact player and if we keep him healthy our chances are pretty good. I’d much rather take a risk by trading #28 and some later picks to move up and grab an impact defensive player.
 
I have to admit that the more Solder plays, the more comfortable I am with the decision to draft him at 17, esp. when taking Vollmer's season (career?) threatening back issues under consideration.

That still does not excuse Bill, however, from ignoring the front 7 or safety positions during the rest of the draft.
 
I have to admit that the more Solder plays, the more comfortable I am with the decision to draft him at 17, esp. when taking Vollmer's season (career?) threatening back issues under consideration.

That still does not excuse Bill, however, from ignoring the front 7 or safety positions during the rest of the draft.

Ok, who do you think he should have taken at what spot?
 
I have to admit that the more Solder plays, the more comfortable I am with the decision to draft him at 17, esp. when taking Vollmer's season (career?) threatening back issues under consideration.

That still does not excuse Bill, however, from ignoring the front 7 or safety positions during the rest of the draft.

Ok, who do you think he should have taken at what spot?

It's tricky, because the most obvious answer to the front 7 question is Jabaal Sheard at #33. The problem is that would have totally ruled out safeties. IMO there were only 3 decent safety prospects left in the whole draft by #33 (including Dowling), and they were all long gone before #56.

So if you take your safety at #33, who's your difference-making front 7 guy at #56? The biggest name left is Justin Houston, but I didn't want him at all. IOW, it had to be either S or DL/OLB...unless you pass on the offer of a 1st + 2nd to take Muhammad Wilkerson or Cameron Heyward at #28.
 
Can we at least wait for Vollmer to go on IR before we say that this injury could derail his career?
 
Can we at least wait for Vollmer to go on IR before we say that this injury could derail his career?

Back injuries are no joke, especially the kind one gets surgery for, if BB knew that SeaBass wasn't 100% than I think the Solder pick was a great move, the guy has the potential to be the next Jake Long or even better, having that guy protect TFB for the remainder of his career is a great thing, now if I can just get my time machine working and have BB draft Jared Veldheer like I wanted we'd be set!
 
It's tricky, because the most obvious answer to the front 7 question is Jabaal Sheard at #33. The problem is that would have totally ruled out safeties. IMO there were only 3 decent safety prospects left in the whole draft by #33 (including Dowling), and they were all long gone before #56.

So if you take your safety at #33, who's your difference-making front 7 guy at #56? The biggest name left is Justin Houston, but I didn't want him at all. IOW, it had to be either S or DL/OLB...unless you pass on the offer of a 1st + 2nd to take Muhammad Wilkerson or Cameron Heyward at #28.

Sorry for taking a bit to respond, but I haven't had the time over the last couple of days
to give the response that Snake's question deserves.

Anyway, when we look back at the draft, we need to remember where we stood with personnel & scheme.
At Safety, we had Chung, Stomper & Sanders plus poss. Page & McGowan with Barrett & Sergio as TC bodies. All but Chung were replaceable, but at least there was depth & experience with room to add a legit developmental FS.
As Patchick astutely as usual noted, this wasn't a good year to draft Safeties early, and those worthy of top-100 consideration (Amukamara, Jimmy Smith, Aaron Williams, Rahim Moore, Gilchrist, Jarrett) were gone by #56 (Smith & the Prince by 28/33).
Considering the qualitiy of avail. Safeties w/ our 2nd pick (and I thought that Williams & Moore were the only ones worthy of such consideration at that time), the current depth we had at that position, and the state of our front-7, I would not have taken a Safety at 28/33.
And speaking of our front-7, we were all still under the ass-umption that our scheme would remain as it had remained since 2003: stout NT, tall & strong DEs, and OLBs big enough to play 4-3 DE.


Had Bill convinced NO to take 33 instead of 28 (and I can't see why NO wouldn't - nobody else was taking Ingram from 28-32), then I would have strongly considered using 28 on either Mo Wilkerson or Cam Heyward. Bill had drafted only one DLman with a top-100 pick (Brace) since Wilfork & Marquise Hill in 2004. We need both quality & quantity at that position, instead of retreads & mediocrities.
Had Bill not convinced NO to take 33, then I too would have def. taken Jabaal Sheard, or perhaps Brooks Reed. We desperately needed then - and still do now - to draft & develop our own Pass-Rushers instead of relying (hoping, praying) on expensive past-their-prime geezers like Derek Burgess & AFailus Thomas, or on dime-a-dozens like TBC, Ninko & Eric Moore.

At 56, instead of taking the mid/late 3rd-round talent of Shane Vereen (who wasn't even the best damn RB avail.), I would've seriously considered doubling-down on Pass-Rusher with the enigmatic top-40 talent of Justin Houston or ILB-to-OLB candidate Martez Wilson.
There were no 3-4 DEs or Safeties worthy of taking at 56, but CB Brandon Harris, WRs Torrey Smith & Randall Tex Cobb, or RB Mikel Leshore would have provided appropriate value. Who knows, maybe Glas-IR Dowling might still have been on the board, too. If he were, then the risk-reward ratio would've been more palatable at 56 than at 33.

At 73/74, if DE hadn't been addressed, then Allen Bailey should've been the choice; if Pass-Rusher hadn't been addressed, then Sam Acho should've been the choice. Again, there were no Safeties worthy of consideration here, but since we still had all of the aforementioned Safeties on the roster, there was no reason to panic & over-draft a lesser talent. If both DE & OLB needs had been addressed, then perhaps we could've started to consider Vereen here.

Our next pick wasn't until 138, but Marcus Cannon provided too much upside to quibble with this choice.

At 159, there were too many better options than UDFA-talent, blocking-only dime-a-dozen TE Lee Smith: Fresno State OLB Chris Carter, CB Chykie Brown, DE Pernell McPhee, C/G Brandon Fusco, X-Back Charles Clay, WR Ron Johnson.
And if Stevan Ridley were still avail., then he could've been the first choice here; if he weren't, and Vereen hadn't been drafted either, then local dude Jordan Todman would've been a good fallback.
Safety Tyler Sash would also have provided good value here, even though he wasn't chosen until almost 40 picks later. And if he wasn't chosen here, then he would've been my only choice at 194. The combination of need + value would've been impossible to resist. I know that he's a bit of a tweener - not quick-twitch fast enough for FS, not stout enough for SS, but his instincts, hands, toughness & technique would've made him a perfect developmental candidate.

As for the complete, predictable waste that was Mal Williams, there were so many better prospects from which to choose that I won't even bother to name them all (cough-Mark-cough-Herzlich-cough). Included among those names were Safeties Eric Hagg, Jeron Johnson, Jerrard Tarrant, Deunta Williams and Rutgers alum Joe Lefeged.

In conclusion, there might not have been many Safeties worthy of early-round consideration, but there were plenty of them worthy of late-round consideration.
Next year, however, a FS must be chosen somehow with one of our top-100 picks; that's how dire Bill has left that position.
 
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