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The Long Ball

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Schmo, Nov 25, 2008.

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  1. Schmo

    Schmo Rookie

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    Now I know that there are a bunch of Cassel vs Brady posts, but I am simply curious and on a fact finding 'mission' (and I guess a little too lazy too look into it myself because I don't remember - but I'm sure common knowledge among everyone here will suffice). What did Brady's long ball look like in his first year? I know Cassel has been slammed for "only hitting the short passes," but I was wondering about the difference in this area.

    I know Brady has the downfield accuracy, but did he have to develop it?
  2. ScottieC

    ScottieC Rookie

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    I think Brady has always had decent arm strength.

    The deal here is that he's never really had a deep threat before, like Randy is now. So, I'm not sure if you ever saw what he could do, because he rarely would have a need to throw it 40-70 yards. Unless it was a Hail Mary in the last few sec's of a game, which thank GWAD because he's Tom F'n Brady we have not seen very often.
  3. JSn

    JSn Rookie

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    I believe hard work to enhance natural gifts is the reason TFB is who he is.

    Here's Tom's Scouting Report:

    Last edited: Nov 25, 2008
  4. scout

    scout Rookie

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    It was somewhere around the 2002 season where there were abundant posts here stating that Brady couldn't throw deep. It was just as abundant as any of the other cycle of rants that take place here.
    I think Cassell can throw long, he just needs to find the rhythm. I heard an announcer state that he can throw just as hard as Brady but can't throw long. Well, if someone can sling it just as hard, they can pretty much throw it deep. There was a lot more touch on those longer passes last week and I think we'll see more of those throws in future games.
  5. letekro

    letekro Rookie

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    I seem to remember him uncorking a bomb in that David Patten game against Indy, but he was inaccurate on long passes until 2004.
  6. Sicilian

    Sicilian On the Roster

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    Not necessarily true. You can have a cannon on short passes where your muscle memory can keep the pass accurate. Throwing a deep ball has to be thrown hard AND be a lot more precise, because even a slight variation in arm angle can lead to a floater or an overthrown ball. Hell, with some weight training, any of us could whip the ball 70 yards eventually, but could we drop it into a trash can 70 yards down the field consistently? Definitely not.
  7. PatsFan2

    PatsFan2 Rookie

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    It Took Tom Brady a couple of years to get that down to an exact science. It wasn't a strength for him in 2002.
  8. PATS68

    PATS68 Rookie

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    This long ball thing, John Clayton is on this kick that Cassel can't throw the ball more than 10 to 15 yards down the field. Heard him on all night on espn radio and just watched him on Mike & Mike.

    So Cassel is just supposed to throw it up to Moss even though there is safety over the top? That is a low % throw, and I rather see him take the 10yard pass to the open WR. 10 yards in my book moves the chains does it not?

    Clayton goes and says that Cassel is throwing it 10 yards and Moss and Welker are extending the play, that is why he has all the yards the last few games.

    So Clayton, help me out. So a nice high % throw for 10 yards that turns into 60 is somehow not as good as forcing a 60 yard deep ball for an INT?

    How many teams are throwing 30 yard pass play every other play? I don't know many.

    Also kind of lost here with the espn guys here. Farve somehow has gotten better by taking the 10 yard pass and letting his play makers make plays. He has gotten better by not throwing it deep and throwing it to the other team.
  9. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Cassel can do it, he's just inconsistent. We all saw the perfect pass to Moss in the SF game and the perfect pass that Gaffney dropped in the Indy game. He can do it, he just needs to work on his consistency a lot.

    FWIW, Cassel's YPA (which includes yards after catch) is 7.28, Brady's career high through 2003 was 6.9. I couldn't find stats on "length of throw" unfortunately.
  10. swheeler23

    swheeler23 Rookie

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    Brady got better receivers.
  11. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    brady spent 18 months in a weight room before stepping onto the field.......he started out not having NFL-level arm strength, but the thing that got him there more than pure arm strength was mechanics..........he pretty much throws the tightest spiral out there which makes his deep throws more accurate and go a bit further

    I think cassel's biggest problem on the long plays is that he puts too much 'thought' into the throws and is simply over throwing them........every time he is under pressure and has to depend on instinct, he makes the right throw......the placement of the TD throw to moss to force OT against the jets is an example of what he can do when he doesn't think about it
  12. bostonia3333

    bostonia3333 Rookie

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    John Clayton is a Colts homer. Of course he's gonna say 400 yds passing by Cassel was a deceptive stat. The way Clayton writes it makes you think Cassel had a lucky performance.
  13. Krugman

    Krugman Rookie

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    I remember Brady having some problems with the deep pass,he wasn't known for it for a few years.He got better,his recievers got better.
  14. PAPatsjunkie

    PAPatsjunkie Rookie

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    Clayton's a moron who probably didn't even watch the game. Wasn't one of Moss' TDs a 40 yard pass, all in the air? He's getting more accurate every week with the deep pass, it just takes some time.
  15. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Brady was a dink and dunk passer in 2001. He was really bad on deep corner passes and anything on the sidelines, he always overthrew or was inaccurate. He was deadly in the middle of the field.

    Obviously he got a ton better every year since.
  16. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    Looking back to 2001, there were two issues that limited Brady's deep passing game.

    #1 - they wanted him to keep things simple and use the run and short pass, utilizing the weapons at his disposal and;

    #2 - he didn't have Randy Moss to throw to. Troy Brown was the main WR threat - 101 passes caught - perfect for their game plan and Brady's capabilities.

    He threw enough to David Patten to keep defenses honest but not much more than that - they preferred a low risk approach to the game instead of many deep throws. Terry Glenn was in turd mode that season and eventually was cut loose - so that didn't help the game plan any.

    In Cassel's case its a very different situation. Early on in the season he was still finding himself - as was the opposing Defense because the O Line's protection of him was horrendous - so there's no point in a deep game when your OL can't even protect you for short passes. Sure Cassel's pocket skills and holding onto the ball too long played a role there too - but the protection was just outright bad for a long time.

    Now things are different. Cassel's more comfortable, is making better reads, the OL is protecting him more, and he has Randy Moss to throw to....

    One should never discount game planning either - some games and teams you play will give you the short pass and not the deep ball, in part because of their own capabilities.

    The Patriots, regardless of QB, take what teams give them - so its not always about the OL or the QB either. I suspect you'll see some more shorter passes against the Steelers for example because frankly, that's about all I exptect their D to allow.

    So while there's some similiarties between the two QBs and Seasons there's a lot of significant differences as well.
  17. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    Brady was very inaccurate on his long ball early in his career -- as bad as Cassell.

    I ascribe his improvement to ALL of:


    • Getting stronger
    • Practice
    • Having more incentive to practice because he had Randy Moss
    • Having Randy Moss to bail him out

    He's still far from perfect. Perhaps most memorable is that flea-flicker w/ Moss, which while thrown straight was so underthrown the pass almost got broken up. But at least it's no longer a surprise when he's on-the-money with a home run ball.
  18. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    By the way, it should be obvious that the ability to throw the long ball is valuable, even if you have great YAC guys. It allows receivers to usefully space themselves further apart on the field. That makes it harder both to cover them and to tackle them after the catch.
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