Story on Patriots' documentary brings recent dysfunction to light

[upstater1]

Are we talking about the same guy who run the D the year before and let Phi score 41 ? Are we talking about TB throwing in 2018 and beyond to Deebo or Aj Brown (or, why not, maybe both) ?

I have no idea what you mean about 2018 and Deebo or AJ Brown. That makes no sense.

Doesn't matter what happened the prior year.

In February of 2019, they gave up 3 points to a team that had been averaging 34. That team was the 11th ranked offense in NFL history.

That year was also the year that the signing of Stephon Gilmore paid dividends since he became an All-Pro.

It's really crazy we're even discussing this. That was a defensive masterpiece. You don't even need to dissect it.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

You guys ever watch the HBO documentary on Vince Lombardi? These guys are who there are, they bring out the best in their football players, to say if he didn't do this or was a little nicer isn't the way it works. They won because of who they are and they don't change.

 

[Boomer B]

You guys ever watch the HBO documentary on Vince Lombardi? These guys are who there are, they bring out the best in their football players, to say if he didn't do this or was a little nicer isn't the way it works. They won because of who they are and they don't change.

I hear what you are saying but I think there’s a lot more to it. I don’t think being an ******* helped Bill win. He could have been tough, disciplined, etc…but still not be a prick.

If Bill wasn’t an ******* but was still a great coach, teacher, hard worker, innovator, tough, disciplined, …… I still think they’d have won.

 

[signbabybrady]

His unbending ways won them 6 Lombardis. This is not up for debate. I am suggesting that, with the 20/20 benefit of hindsight, could they have won 7 or maybe 8?

I think it's real easy to sit here and say we could have or should have won more and just point to examples like Butler. And there are certainly ways where that could have been true but if he was the kind of person that would compromise for those moments than what other moments change and what kind of Butterfly effect might that have made.

Let's just say for maximum impact that if he were the type of guy to play Butler or Welker despite those situations that it could also correlate to being the kind of guy who just hands the starting job back to the 100 million dollar man.

 

[RIpats88]

The Gronk trade was because he was a distraction that off-season, with his motocross antics. At that point, Gronk was sick of Bill's BS and was trying to shoot his way out of town, and Bill was willing to oblige. BB never expected Gronk to play the retirement card, but he wanted to stay with Tom.

The whole thing was a mess. It's amazing that they held it together as long as they did. This isn't a 3-5 year run. Talking about 20 years. Not surprising that everyone had gotten on each other's nerves.

If bill made that moronic decision we never get Super Bowl #6 and maybe Mahomes is getting his 4th this year….

 

[SVN]

i think this show is going to kill his chances of getting a job again

 

[signbabybrady]

i think this show is going to kill his chances of getting a job again

Most of the quotes are probably followed by yeah buts. He was hard to work for but he got the best out of me. I'm guessing when all the episodes release these will be a very small percentage of the overall content too. I don't think any of this will impact employment. That will come down to his age and if the right situation open ups where the management structure matches up with what he wants and what the owner wants.

 

[PatsfanTN]

Just read what Brady said, it was worse than I thought. To be honest, this may kill his chances of getting another NFL HC job. Man, that’s brutal.

Tom Brady Talks Leaving Patriots as Relationship with Bill Belichick Soured: ‘I Wasn’t Going to Sign Up For More’

Tom Brady talks leaving the New England Patriots as his relationship with coach Bill Belichick soured on Apple TV+'s new series, 'Dynasty: The New England Patriots'

people.com

 

[WesternMAPatsfan]

BB did not pick Corky Mac.

I have my my own issues with kraft, but is there any credible evidence of this?
I hear those over and over, but never any evidence other then " I'm sure he wasn't" or " he probably wasn't"
I've never seen any reports of anyone inside Gillette saying that Mac was Kraft's pic or that he told Bill to pic Mac .

Like asking seriously, did I miss it?

 

[NormZauchin]

well, with a total rebuilding of the coaching staff, this shouldn't be an issue going into next season...right?

Isn't there still someone named Belichick on the coaching staff?

 

[signbabybrady]

I have my my own issues with kraft, but is there any credible evidence of this?
I hear those over and over, but never any evidence other then " I'm sure he wasn't" or " he probably wasn't"
I've never seen any reports of anyone inside Gillette saying that Mac was Kraft's pic or that he told Bill to pic Mac .

Like asking seriously, did I miss it?

My opinion is Bill was still the head guy so it's still his selection to make but it's not some rumor Kraft outwardly stated they were making changes to how the draft process would work or something like that. I don't think that means Bill wasn't still making the choices but it's not like we were ever told what that did entail.

 

[Vindicate]

The reasons he wasn’t going to come back seem to be indicated differently then what you list though. You point out the teams talent level, chance to succeed, etc…while the article points to a lot of unhappiness in the workplace and the way he was treated.

This comes right after Brady’s quote:

“It was brutal,” Matthew Slater said. Rob Gronkowski described pulling up to 1 Patriot Place and not wanting to get out of his car to go into work. Wes Welker compared Brady to an abused dog for continually going back to work for Belichick.”

No where in that article does it mention Tom leaving because of a rebuild, talent level, etc…

Nowhere in those quotes or Brady's quote did he say he left because of unhappiness or how he was treated. It's still kinda all assumption right now.

We're getting small pieces of an entire series, and it's kinda all the negative bits. I'm not sure why we also ignore all the players that say how amazing it is to learn from Bill.

In the end, I'm not too concerned who thinks what - but it is frustrating to see the tunnel vision in people's post-mortems.

 

[venecol]

Players are different. They have much lower standards. They don't have the same responsibilities that coaches do. And apparently they forgive a lot. I mean, Brady took in Antonio Brown to live with his family, and this was after Brown had his thugs physically threaten the children of a woman he defrauded.

Bill was an adulterer with his wife and was having an affair with a married woman, while HC of the Pats, to the point her husband had to denounce Bill to a judge. I guess in your book, that's having higher standards than trying to help out a teammate with mental issues. Congrats, you're a ****ing scumbag just like your hero.

 

[Guts]

Bill was an adulterer with his wife and was having an affair with a married woman, while HC of the Pats, to the point her husband had to denounce Bill to a judge. I guess in your book, that's having higher standards than trying to help out a teammate with mental issues. Congrats, you're a ****ing scumbag just like your hero.

 

[SVN]

Nowhere in those quotes or Brady's quote did he say he left because of unhappiness or how he was treated. It's still kinda all assumption right now.

We're getting small pieces of an entire series, and it's kinda all the negative bits. I'm not sure why we also ignore all the players that say how amazing it is to learn from Bill.

In the end, I'm not too concerned who thinks what - but it is frustrating to see the tunnel vision in people's post-mortems.

I think most of the people who have watched the show, say the players say it was brutal without much +ve towards bill. it really is towards the end of the series where this all comes out.
The director was in curran's podcast and even curran wrote that BB was the most guarded of them all.

Curran: 'The Dynasty' delivers the goods on Pats' Shakespearean story

Tom E. Curran breaks down what to expect from the Apple TV docuseries on the Patriots’ dynasty and explains why it’s a must-watch for anyone who follows the team.

www.nbcsportsboston.com

We’ve described the Patriots' story as Shakespearean. This documentary brings that home in a way a writer, reporter or author never could. The protagonists deliver their soliloquies directly to the camera, giving THEIR version of what happened and why without the intrusion of a writer’s interpretation.

All of them – with the exception of Bill Belichick, who gives off a “I’m not into this one flocking bit because I know where this project is going” vibe in later episodes – are unguarded.

I think thats what is going to unforutnately come out of this series. A lot of -ve press about bill which will lessen his chance that he is hired. Especially becsause BB never refutes or confirms anything anyone says. So amendola can say one thing or slater but Bill will just say "no comment" . We never really hear his side. And had he known he was going to go 4-13 and fired, he likely wouldve declined this

 

[venecol]

Sorry about not reading the previous 8 pages, but MY first reaction on seeing the Brady quote about knowing he wasn't going to sign another contract with the Pats after the 2019 season was "Finally, I'm vinficated".

Lol, you haven't been vindicated at all. He wanted to retire a Patriot. He was pushed out by Bill.

I DO believe that Brady (after 20 years) did get tired of Bill's voice in his ear. But that was the least of big reasons Brady left. He left because it was CLEARLY in his own best interests of his very limited career time. Brady was NEVER going to be part of a rebuild. FINALLY 4 years after the fact the truth came to light. Brady LEFT, he was never forced out

No, that was the #1 reason why he left. He said so himself. He was 100% forced out by ******* Bill. It was because of Bill being a monumental ******* that he left. Therefore, Bill pushed him out.

 

[Vindicate]

I think most of the people who have watched the show, say the players say it was brutal without much +ve towards bill. it really is towards the end of the series where this all comes out.
The director was in curran's podcast and even curran wrote that BB was the most guarded of them all.

Curran: 'The Dynasty' delivers the goods on Pats' Shakespearean story

Tom E. Curran breaks down what to expect from the Apple TV docuseries on the Patriots’ dynasty and explains why it’s a must-watch for anyone who follows the team.

www.nbcsportsboston.com

I think thats what is going to unforutnately come out of this series. A lot of -ve press about bill which will lessen his chance that he is hired. Especially becsause BB never refutes or confirms anything anyone says. So amendola can say one thing or slater but Bill will just say "no comment" . We never really hear his side. And had he known he was going to go 4-13 and fired, he likely wouldve declined this

Just wondering what you mean by those terms (+ve/-ve)?

 

[venecol]

Thank you, I agree. And almost everyone agreed at the time that the run was over.
All this drama over keeping him when it was clear it was the best move for Brady (and for Belichick in starting the rebuild) to move on at that point.

It was a great move for Brady. He got rid of ******* Bill, got welcomed with open arms by Tampa Bay, was beloved, and collected another chip.

Brady retired on top of the world.

It was a monumental failure for Bill, exposing him as a below average coach w/o the GOAT to the point he alone crashed and burned the franchise to a 4-13 record, leaving it devoid of talent and causing the Owner to fire him.

Bill got fired, just like he was fired in Cleveland. He failed to even land a job out of 7 openings. His career took a major hit since pretty much everyone that isn't one of his blind sycophants now agrees it was Brady that carried the Patriots. I'm not even sure he's a first ballot HOF given all the dirt coming out on him.

 

[venecol]

Disagree. Yeah, it was HARD to come into Foxborough to work day in and day out. But a lot of that was masked by winning on Sundays...which we did OK until the end of the 2019 season.

Remember Brady saying that he was "the most miserable 8-0 QB in league history"? That season was filled with us trying to give Brady weapons from Josh Gordon-->AB-->Snau after Gronk retired....and Brady being frustrated with N'Keal Harry and etc...

I mean, we had no cap money in 2020...could have cut guys to offer Brady 25M....maybe, but the team would have been far worse. Also, the mistake was actually in not offering Brady a 2 year 50M deal in 2018...which led to him asking for the promise of not being franchised in 2020 at the end of his deal.

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the grass was a lot greener down in Tampa... (or San Francisco where Brady wanted to go initially). I mean...Evans, Godwin, that defense, and etc...compared to what? Meyers, N'Keal Harry, and some cast offs....we paid Cam Newton 1M to play QB here....1M! Geno Smith is gonna make 20M this year man....a NFL QB doesn't carry a clipboard for 1M or less....

Nah, Brady won with less. Bill pushed him out because Brady finally had enough of his ****. It wasn't worth it anymore. Brady said so himself. He was waaaay happier in Tampa.

 

[venecol]

Doesn't matter what happened the prior year.

You mean the 2017 SB when Bill's brilliant D plan allowed Nick ****ing Foles to put up 538 offensive yards, 63% on 3rd downs, 100% on 4th downs, and 41 points? The one where he benched Malcolm?

Yes, I'm sure you don't want to talk about that brilliant D plan against a back-up QB that wasted Tom's 613 yards on offense and 33 pts.

Wilks got fired for allowing Mahomes 19 pts in regulation. Bill should've been fired for that fiasco.