Smerlas comments on Sports Final

[Mainefan]

I second Spacecrime's motion. Except for the rare football posts, this thread don't contribute anything useful to patsfans.com.

 

[atomdomb]

Sorry, I don't keep a log book. Racism isn't necessarily overt. Sometimes a racist doesn't even realize he is one. They aren't all cross burners. Its my opinion. You can disagree, that is fine. But I also disagree with your convenient requirements. Makes it easy on Fred or anyone else. You're free to feel he isn't one. I am free to feel he is one, based on years of listening to his opinions, who he rips and why and positions. That is my proof. So if you want to analyze it, I guess you'd have to get a tape of every single time he has ever been on 'EEI and take it in total. If this isn't good enough for you, sorry. But you just look at it different. My opinion is my opinion. I'm pretty confident I'm right. Smerlas is one.

J D Sal

good thing stupidity is. by your comments i can prove you are stupid.

 

[PonyExpress]

I have known many lawyers, several in my immediate family. Many of them are honorable people who represent a desire to do good for society. But there is another kind. This kind is the type who immediately resorts to an unproveable ad hominem attack to silence a critic, just as JDSal did against Smerlas. It is a typical political tactic of the far left, used to smear a man and so polarize the climate that actual evidence, even the original argument itself, can no longer be coherently discussed. JDSAL launched such a bomb on this thread, polluting an interesting discussion of Meriweather's play with character assassination and inuendo, making only smirking, smug efforts to justify his charge. This is a perfect illustration of how damaging licensed practitioners of the law can be when they are infected with an extreme agenda. Rather than offer a single anecdotal example of Smerlas' supposed bias, he knew from his cynical legal training that the charge itself overwhelms the need for evidence. IMO JDsal is an unethical man, and his cynical smear of Smerlas is EVIDENCE to that effect.

 

[Deus Irae]

Bruinz, just leave. Get all your bluster out and take a hike. JD has just so summarily beaten your ass down in this latest debate that you need to go off somewhere and lick your wounds. Give our best to those other blowhards like Rummy and Cheney and Wolfie, and a special shout-out to that nasty-boy, Larry Craig, who is - for the record - not gay and never has been.

Actually, JD is wrong in his assertions, as any decent attorney should know. Defamation law varies from state to state, and his original comments did not assert that Smerlas being a racist was just his opinion. Now, Smerlas is a public figure who, therefore, is not given as strong a protection against slander/libel as non-celebrities, but this is still a valid case and JD would have to defend his comments in court if Smerlas took action. JD would likely have to show that this was just his opinion and he'd have to prove a reasonable basis for that opinion, or he'd have to prove the truth of the matter. In other words, he'd have to come up with more than "I've been listening for 10 years!". Again, state laws vary, but that's the basic thrust of this situation.

As for you, Patsox23, political affiliation has nothing to do with this. You can be an idiot no matter how you vote, as Democrats and Republicans have both shown us with ample proof over the years.

 

[DaBruinz]

Bruinz, just leave. Get all your bluster out and take a hike. JD has just so summarily beaten your ass down in this latest debate that you need to go off somewhere and lick your wounds. Give our best to those other blowhards like Rummy and Cheney and Wolfie, and a special shout-out to that nasty-boy, Larry Craig, who is - for the record - not gay and never has been.

Thanks for the laugh, PatSox23. Sorry to say, but JD didn't beat me at all. But I wouldn't expect you to understand that.

 

[DaBruinz]

Are you serious? You should restrict your posts to the confines of your personal knowledge.

First, I can call Fred Smerlas, you, or anyone else a racist without fear of legal repercussions. Perhaps you have heard of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution? The 1st Amendment protects opinions, such as these. Only purported statements of fact are actionable.

Yes, I've heard of the First Amendment. I referenced it. You clearly missed it. See, the 1st Amendment does NOT protect you from the repercussions of your voicing your opinion. And that is what so many people FAIL to understand. The first Amendment protects your right to have an opinion and to voice it. But, if its inflammatory, then you are responsible for the repercussions. Any good lawyer will tell you this.

Second, defamation is basically impossible to prove if you are a public figure, such as Smerlas.

Third, lawyers are no less protected by the First Amendment then are ordinary citizens. Saying that he should be disbarred is hysterical and anti-american.

Actually, defemation can be proven, regardless of if you are a public figure or not.

Why is my saying that he is being irresponsible and should be dis-barred? Its my right to say such. And its a believe that I hold to. There is NOTHING Anti-American about it. That is just plain ignorance on your part. But thank you for sharing your opinion. It wasn't enlightening at all.

 

[patsox23]

DaBruinz - Angry. White. Male.

 

[patsox23]

That description, by the way, often describes myself, as well.

 

[DaBruinz]

DaBruinz - Angry. White. Male.

Opinionated. White. Male. That is more like it.

Thanks for your "opinion."

 

[patsox23]

Opinionated. White. Male. That is more like it.

Thanks for your "opinion."

LOL. I'd definitely say that's fair. Well played, DaCheney.

 

[DaBruinz]

LOL. I'd definitely say that's fair. Well played, DaCheney.

Thank you.

In general, I have no issues with people having their opinions. I take issue with cowards who defame a person by calling that person a racist, bigot, or whatever and then refuse to give examples. Its even worse when the accuser basically says "Well, I don't have any proof, but I just know it." That has got to be the biggest cop out. To me, if you are going to say something like that, you damn well better "strap on a pair of balls" and be prepared to back it up. If not, then keep it to yourself because no one wants to hear that garbage.

 

[patsox23]

I guess I know what you're saying, DaCheney, but don't you ever have a situation where you have listened to/read someone's views over a long period of time and have formed a more or less legit, well-formed point of view on what they're about (not from a superficial, one time situation but from YEARS of exposure to it) and feel like it's a fair assessment in your view - but can't immediately think of concrete examples? I think that's perfectly plausible.

There seems to be a sense of Smerlas as having picked on black players more often than white players, a certain political/cultural perspective that is continually hinted at (or, at times, overtly asserted) that comes across, quite clearly, as bigoted or close-minded, and slanted against certain demographics and backgrounds. A body of work that includes discussion on a daily basis over YEARS seems like not the most irresponsible place from which to form a judgment worthy of posting on a messageboard, no?

 

[Deus Irae]

I guess I know what you're saying, DaCheney, but don't you ever have a situation where you have listened to/read someone's views over a long period of time and have formed a more or less legit, well-formed point of view on what they're about (not from a superficial, one time situation but from YEARS of exposure to it) and feel like it's a fair assessment in your view - but can't immediately think of concrete examples? I think that's perfectly plausible.

There seems to be a sense of Smerlas as having picked on black players more often than white players, a certain political/cultural perspective that is continually hinted at (or, at times, overtly asserted) that comes across, quite clearly, as bigoted or close-minded, and slanted against certain demographics and backgrounds. A body of work that includes discussion on a daily basis over YEARS seems like not the most irresponsible place from which to form a judgment worthy of posting on a messageboard, no?

No, that's not correct. Something like "He comes across as racist to me for some reason I can't explain" is a perfectly valid, if cowardly, way to avoid defamation issues in some places. However, the blanket statement "He is a racist" is not.

P.S. Sorry, two posts got garbled

 

[DaBruinz]

I guess I know what you're saying, DaCheney, but don't you ever have a situation where you have listened to/read someone's views over a long period of time and have formed a more or less legit, well-formed point of view on what they're about (not from a superficial, one time situation but from YEARS of exposure to it) and feel like it's a fair assessment in your view - but can't immediately think of concrete examples? I think that's perfectly plausible.

There seems to be a sense of Smerlas as having picked on black players more often than white players, a certain political/cultural perspective that is continually hinted at (or, at times, overtly asserted) that comes across, quite clearly, as bigoted or close-minded, and slanted against certain demographics and backgrounds. A body of work that includes discussion on a daily basis over YEARS seems like not the most irresponsible place from which to form a judgment worthy of posting on a messageboard, no?

First, and foremost, if I felt that someone was a racist, I wouldn't be listening to them. Regardless of what they do. And I sure wouldn't listen to them for 10 years.

Secondly, if it was me, I'd have examples that I could pull from memory to support my claim that the guy was a racist. I wouldn't make the statement without having some support. And, in this day and age, anyone knows that you need to have a good foundation for an argument of that volatility.

Third, its well known that people from the media (Reiss, Breer, Casale, etc) come to this forum. They find many fans to have good insight and we've earned their respect. When someone comes out and makes an unfounded comment like JD did, it takes away from the credibility of the whole board, whether we like it or not.

Lastly, if I had read/listened to someone for an extended period of time and formed an opinion on them, then I'd have examples to support that opinion. I wouldn't hide behind some lame excuse of "not having a notepad to give examples." No, I don't think its plausible that one wouldn't have examples unless one suffers from long term memory loss. That is a coward's talk. That's someone who just wants to bash another person for the sake of bashing them. Not because they have anything relevant to bash them on. Had JD just bashed Smerlas on his statements, and not thrown in the BS about Smerlas being racist, I wouldn't have had any issues.


I may be wrong at times, but I am willing to admit my mistakes (Caldwell, Dillon). And, generally, I don't hold onto my opinions as if they were worth more than gold unless I know for 100% certainty that I know I am right. And there aren't enough instances of that. The only things that I know for a certainty is that everyone's body dies and that the various governments will take 20-50% of my earnings during my lifetime and waste 25% on their inefficiency and another 25% on people who abuse the system.

 

[letekro]

I have known many lawyers, several in my immediate family. Many of them are honorable people who represent a desire to do good for society. But there is another kind. This kind is the type who immediately resorts to an unproveable ad hominem attack to silence a critic, just as JDSal did against Smerlas. It is a typical political tactic of the far left, used to smear a man and so polarize the climate that actual evidence, even the original argument itself, can no longer be coherently discussed. JDSAL launched such a bomb on this thread, polluting an interesting discussion of Meriweather's play with character assassination and inuendo, making only smirking, smug efforts to justify his charge. This is a perfect illustration of how damaging licensed practitioners of the law can be when they are infected with an extreme agenda. Rather than offer a single anecdotal example of Smerlas' supposed bias, he knew from his cynical legal training that the charge itself overwhelms the need for evidence. IMO JDsal is an unethical man, and his cynical smear of Smerlas is EVIDENCE to that effect.

Don't you think that you're laying the self-righteousness on a little bit thick there Pony?

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Fred is a racist and because of Meriweather's somewhat thug reputation coming from U of Miami, of coruse it will be an opportunity for Fred to find a conventient black man to pick on. Being a first round choice, Meriweather is the perfect target with some light on him in which Fred can veil his comments.

J D Sal

That is a completely stupid thing to say.

 

[PonyExpress]

Don't you think that you're laying the self-righteousness on a little bit thick there Pony?

Could you be more specific?

 

[Bertil]

Sorry, I don't keep a log book. Racism isn't necessarily overt. Sometimes a racist doesn't even realize he is one. They aren't all cross burners. Its my opinion. You can disagree, that is fine. But I also disagree with your convenient requirements. Makes it easy on Fred or anyone else. You're free to feel he isn't one. I am free to feel he is one, based on years of listening to his opinions, who he rips and why and positions. That is my proof. So if you want to analyze it, I guess you'd have to get a tape of every single time he has ever been on 'EEI and take it in total. If this isn't good enough for you, sorry. But you just look at it different. My opinion is my opinion. I'm pretty confident I'm right. Smerlas is one.

J D Sal

In other words, "Uh, Duh, look at me. I'm starving for attention."

 

[basement zombie]

 

[Caspir]

I have not read this entire thread because it devolved into an is he/isn't he racist thing, and I want no part of that beef.

That said, when we drafted Merriweather, he called him the next Ed Reed. So he either has memory probems, or he flip flops more than a politician.