Shawn Springs: Pats D scheme not designed to be dominant

[TB146]

Until this team finds 3 down players the defense will continue to be mediocre. In the old days the opposition didn't know who was rushing the passer or who would drop back in coverage, they could disguise their defense. As long as the team has to constantly use sub packages they will not be an elite defense.

Good point. The first thing this made me think of was Belichick describing McCourty as a "4-down player". At first I only thought he was commenting on his ability to contribute on both Defense and Special Teams, but now that you say this I wonder if BB also meant that he would be participating in all defensive situations.

 

[JSn]

...and a defensive backfield that spent some time playing keystone cops...

Beverage out of nose. Thanks, Deus.

 

[PatsBoy12]

I agree that their defense will work when they get the play-making players like they had in the early 2000's.

But I want to see BB bring back the exotic blitz schemes where you had no idea who was rushing the QB and brought delayed blitzes ala New York Jets in '99 and the 2003 Patriots defense. I had to remind myself the other day that BB's schemes aren't always so vanilla. Because of the lack of play-makers since '05, this defense has looked completely different and makes the one gap look bland. I think those blitzes will come back when the secondary can hold it's own.

I couldn't agree more. I have been wanting this for years now. I, perhaps a bit foolishly, expected this to happen last year with the infusion of draftees, but I think I was expecting too much from them too soon. We'll see this year what Chung, Butler, et al. from two drafts ago have to offer.

I'll also add that I believe our problems on defense in recent years has WAY more to do with personnel than scheme.

 

[Coach42]

I think part of the reason the Pats D has never been considered dominant nationally is that Belicheck doesn't give a crap about yards allowed. It seems to me the fundamentally (extremely basic) philosophy of the D over the Belicheck years is to not give up the big play between the twenties and really turn up the intensity in the red zone. Watching that kind of D does not give the viewer the impression of dominance however, when you look up at the score board and only see 10 points allowed you think, "How the hell did that happen? They seemed to be moving the ball well all game."

 

[mgteich]

You are correct. Yardage allowed means nothing to Belichick. What matters is
1) points allowed
2) red zone opportunities allowed
3) red zone conversion rate
4) big plays allowed

Last year we were aweful on Measure #3, but great on #1 and #2.

Bend and don't break is indeed Belichick's philosphy. Yardage between the twenties means little.

I think part of the reason the Pats D has never been considered dominant nationally is that Belicheck doesn't give a crap about yards allowed. It seems to me the fundamentally (extremely basic) philosophy of the D over the Belicheck years is to not give up the big play between the twenties and really turn up the intensity in the red zone. Watching that kind of D does not give the viewer the impression of dominance however, when you look up at the score board and only see 10 points allowed you think, "How the hell did that happen? They seemed to be moving the ball well all game."

 

[mgteich]

You are correct. Yardage allowed means nothing to Belichick. What matters is
1) points allowed
2) red zone opportunities allowed
3) red zone conversion rate
4) big plays allowed

Last year we were aweful on Measure #3, but great on #1 and #2.

Bend and don't break is indeed Belichick's philosphy. Yardage between the twenties means little. Unfortunately, those field goals sometimes add up to a loss.

I think part of the reason the Pats D has never been considered dominant nationally is that Belicheck doesn't give a crap about yards allowed. It seems to me the fundamentally (extremely basic) philosophy of the D over the Belicheck years is to not give up the big play between the twenties and really turn up the intensity in the red zone. Watching that kind of D does not give the viewer the impression of dominance however, when you look up at the score board and only see 10 points allowed you think, "How the hell did that happen? They seemed to be moving the ball well all game."

 

[jbhiggy]

The biggest problem last season was red zone OFFENSE not our defense.

 

[wcpatsfan]

I'm pretty sure Springs has it backwards. If the Pats had the personnel the last few years I am pretty sure we would have seen an aggresive style of defense. But when you have a poor secondary (like '08 & '09) or a questionable front seven (like '09 & this year), you spend more time making sure you don't get burned than you do trying to make things happen. It is the personnel that have been lacking, not the strategy and scheme.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

You are correct. Yardage allowed means nothing to Belichick. What matters is
1) points allowed
2) red zone opportunities allowed
3) red zone conversion rate
4) big plays allowed

Last year we were aweful on Measure #3, but great on #1 and #2.

Bend and don't break is indeed Belichick's philosphy. Yardage between the twenties means little. Unfortunately, those field goals sometimes add up to a loss.

Do you like this philosophy and do you feel it can be dominant?

I feel some of what Springs said is true. I don't think you can really be a dominant defense if you are basically willing to let a team drive down on you at will, as you sit back and protect against the big play. I think he's right that in order to win this way you need to have a good offense. If Brady is doing his thing and this team is putting up 25-30 PPG, this style of D can take us where we want to go. However, maybe a lack of experience on D led to this team being so vanilla and passive.

 

[DocE]

I think the points per game the patriots gave up last year was really misleading. They benefited from a few games where the weather was terrible and it was extremely difficult to score points. In the 3 dome games, the Patriots gave up 35, 38, and 34 points and then gave up another 33 in the playoffs at home. An inability to hold leads was a recurring theme all year despite the team enjoying a t.o.p. advantage.

That said, not sure it's the scheme that's the problem. Unless/until the Patriots can find a way to pressure the QB with 4 guys, it's very difficult to be better than average defensively. That means we need to see an OLB step up, but we also need more out of the ends in the pass rush department (think Seymour/Jarvis Green of a few years ago).

 

[AzPatsFan]

I think part of the reason the Pats D has never been considered dominant nationally is that Belichick doesn't give a crap about yards allowed. It seems to me the fundamentally (extremely basic) philosophy of the D over the Belichick years is to not give up the big play between the twenties and really turn up the intensity in the red zone. Watching that kind of D does not give the viewer the impression of dominance however, when you look up at the score board and only see 10 points allowed you think, "How the hell did that happen? They seemed to be moving the ball well all game."

Belichick doesn't care about extraneous issues, like "dominance" or yards allowed, except for Rushing yardage allowed. All his Defenses produce fewer points for the opponent than the yardage would be expected to produce.

The only reason that Belichick cares about rushing yardage is because it prevents "Bend don't Break" from working,and it ruins the Pass Rush, like it did last season. Judging from the off season efforts, Belichick spent more effort to patch the Rushing Defense than he did on what everyone else was complaining about, Pass Rushers.

Pass Rush will show up when it is 3rd and 8 and not 3rd and 2, as it was all too frequently last season. Still only the very best Teams were able to march down into the Red Zone and score against the Pats. The tougher Rush Defense will stop that, and the Pats Defense will take a giant leap this season.

I like the Defense now. It is probably sounder than any since 2005. It is young, fast, sizable and talented. All it lacks is experience, but even there there will only be a couple of Rookies in that raw situation, unlike last few seasons.

It has been a long time since the Pats had as much secondary talent as they do now. And i can't remember when it had more speed at LB, inside and out. Last year the loss of Seymour downgraded the defensive line dramatically. While not as good as the Big Three in their prime, they didn't have the D line depth that this edition will sport, either.