Sey and #21 for Hawk?

[Flying Fungi]

Firstly, ya, Sey and #21 for #5 and #36 from GB.

That would be a horrendous trade!

Seymour was #6 and has realized his potential. Seymour for #5 alone is terrible, and then you have us trading our first for a second straight up.

Any GM that makes this trade can expect to file his unemployment papers.

 

[mavfan2390]

seymour for number one overall......(bush)

would you do it?

 

[Flying Fungi]

seymour for number one overall......(bush)

would you do it?

I would not--unless there was more than just #1 involved.

 

[BelichickFan]

We used a #6 for him. He is oft injured and could be a contract issue for anyone who wants him. If we were offered a #5 for him, that would be a gift.

Who cares what we used on him, he has become a way better player than you can realistically expect from the #6 pick of the draft.

 

[spidey2559]

I understand BB values linebackers over D-line, but...

Yeah, a sold D line is only necessary if you want to keep our LBs in a position to make plays. It works from the line on down.

....but you need at least one D lineman that can command a double team. Green doesn't. Wilfork in a blue moon. Sey all day. You need that stellar D lineman to command the double team and allow the inner linebackers to stuff the run or blitz.

If you let Sey go, you lose the ability to tie up multiple blockers. Mario Williams is not a guarantee you will get that by drafting him.

Sey is as close to the Brady exception as you can get. Remember Patriots are one of the highest revenue organizations in the league so a huge signing bonus to knock down Sey's cap hit would be a strong possibility...

 

[BelichickFan]

I would probably trade Seymour for a top 5 pick, or even better a 10-15 pick with that team's #1 next year. We would then be able to sign almost all our upcoming FA and have loads of picks for young guys. It would suck to lose him but that would be difficult to complain about. Adding #21 ? No.

 

[flutie2phelan]

....
This trade could never happen. The GB fans would roast their ownership alive.

Uniquely in the case of the Packers ... a textbook example of self-immolation.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

....but you need at least one D lineman that can command a double team. Green doesn't. Wilfork in a blue moon. Sey all day. You need that stellar D lineman to command the double team and allow the inner linebackers to stuff the run or blitz.

If you let Sey go, you lose the ability to tie up multiple blockers. Mario Williams is not a guarantee you will get that by drafting him.

Sey is as close to the Brady exception as you can get. Remember Patriots are one of the highest revenue organizations in the league so a huge signing bonus to knock down Sey's cap hit would be a strong possibility...

Settle down neighbor, Wilfork draws more double teams per game than Sey as far as I can see, even when he was playing lousy technique last season. And Green is doubled at the point of attack the same way Seymour is, not to mention that he is the third down pass rush specialist (reportedly the 3rd best in the league based on a poll of O-line coaches as I recall) whose pass rush requires him to be doubled as often as Sey.

John, you've undervalued Sey's trade value. Until an extension is unlikely or too costly, there is no need to trade him for the uncertainty of draft picks. But if he was to be traded, Sey and #21 for #5 is backwards for starters.

 

[Pats726]

But if he was to be traded, Sey and #21 for #5 is backwards for starters.

Absolutely...AND a 21??? No way!!!

 

[mavfan2390]

ok, im bored, and i have time on my hands so here goes nothing....

first trade sey for mario, stallworth, and watson

next, draft with these people as the major picks (with us filling several needs through the sey trade, we can afford to take projects)

Cromartie, Hodge, Drew, Nance, Connor Hughes,

and in the supp take brooks in the second

then update your depth chart....and voila!



Stallworth.........Light, Mankins, Koppen, Neal, Kauczar........Branch
Caldwell/ Nance/ Brown Brady.............Watson
Dillon/ Drew/ Faulk/ Pass/ Evans Graham



Harrison, Wilson

Brooks, Brushci, Vrabel, Colvin
Hobbs....................Williams, Vince, Warren....................Cromartie

 

[DaBruinz]

Sorry, please explain. If you trade a guy for a pick, how does that involve a Franchise tag?

Jczxohn -
Seymour = Franchise Player who will get tagged. A franchised player is = to 2 1st round picks if signed by another team.

Now, you take those 2 1st round picks and add them to the #21 pick you want to trade and you get 3 1st round picks.

You are suggesting that AJ Hawk, who has NEVER played a single down in the NFL is worth 3 1st round picks. And its absurd. For all we know, he's another Andy Katzenmoyer.

 

[DaBruinz]

We used a #6 for him. He is oft injured and could be a contract issue for anyone who wants him. If we were offered a #5 for him, that would be a gift.

What we used on him makes no difference.

The only reason he's been injured was because the Pats, erroneously, attempted to use Seymour as a lead blocker on offense. Its unlikely they will do that again.

You're as insane as jcxzohn to think that a single 1st round pick would be a gift.

 

[DaBruinz]

Do we have the best QB in the NFL? the best RB? the best TE? the best NG? More importantly, 4 of the best LB's to play in the 3-4?

And yes, I do remember Katz and I've always regretted he broke his neck.

The only time the Pats have ever given up a future #1 pick was for Belicheck.

Yes, we DO have the BEST QB in the NFL. While we don't have 4 of the best LBs who play in the NFL, you can't just lump all the LBs into one pot. You have to look at ILB and OLB seperately. And I would say you'd be hard-pressed to find a better 3-4 ILB than Tedy Bruschi. Vrabel and Colvin are probably in the top 5-10 for 3-4 OLBs.

 

[DaBruinz]

The LB corp is the KEY to BB's defense, a solid D line is only necessary.

This sentence shows me you don't understand the Patriots 3-4 defense or BB's philosophy.

BB's philosophy is that the wars are won in the trenches. BB's defense has ALWAYS been about the lines. Yes, the LBs have to be athletic enough to move around in coverage, but strong enough to take on O-linemen at times. But they aren't the KEY to the defense.

 

[dryheat44]

We used a #6 for him. He is oft injured and could be a contract issue for anyone who wants him. If we were offered a #5 for him, that would be a gift.

Cool. We got Brady in the sixth round. Maybe somebody will give us a third rounder for him? That would be sweet. A real coup. Hope BB can fleece someone.

 

[spidey2559]

Now do you still want Sey?

For all of those Patriots fans who were so quick to get rid of Sey, you're going to have to wait four more years.

I am extremely pleased that they kept the premier DE in the game. We will have a stellar D-line for years to come. The LB's will have open lanes to stuff, and CB's will have one less tight end or slot back to deal with (probably blocking Sey).

Four years for 30 million.....isn't Lavar Arrington asking that money???

Does anyone know if any of that 30 million will count towards signing bonuses? I don't have that info.

 

[flutie2phelan]

.... While we don't have 4 of the best LBs who play in the NFL, ... I would say you'd be hard-pressed to find a better 3-4 ILB than Tedy Bruschi. Vrabel and Colvin are probably in the top 5-10 for 3-4 OLBs.

Is it accurate to say that the Patriots have the best front 7 in the league?

Real question ... not rhetorical.

Who is close? Steelers? Broncos? Panthers? I dunno.

 

[jczxohn1]

Jczxohn -
Seymour = Franchise Player who will get tagged. A franchised player is = to 2 1st round picks if signed by another team.

Then the reason to franchise him before the trade is to get two 1st rd picks.

Now, you take those 2 1st round picks and add them to the #21 pick you want to trade and you get 3 1st round picks.

Or is it you take those two 1st rd picks you get and subtract them from the #21 you gave up and you get a higher 1st rd pick this yr plus their 1st rd next yr.

You are suggesting that AJ Hawk, who has NEVER played a single down in the NFL is worth 3 1st round picks. And its absurd. For all we know, he's another Andy Katzenmoyer.

IIRC, regardless of who initiates the trade, the team with the franchised player gets the picks. Also, about 4 posts later I amended the trade to include their #36 pick w/o the franchise tag, which made Sey's contract GB's problem and gave us the 2,3,or4th rated DE in the draft.

As for Hawk being another Katz, yes, I suppose he could break his neck and quit football.

Thank heaven this is all a moot point but I couldn't let your shell game stand.

 

[jczxohn1]

Yes, we DO have the BEST QB in the NFL. While we don't have 4 of the best LBs who play in the NFL, you can't just lump all the LBs into one pot. You have to look at ILB and OLB seperately. And I would say you'd be hard-pressed to find a better 3-4 ILB than Tedy Bruschi. Vrabel and Colvin are probably in the top 5-10 for 3-4 OLBs.

As a faithful Pats fan, I agree on Brady, but it's debatable. I would rate Bruschi below Vrabel at this point in his career. Colvin is an OLB and has a lot of upside. Bruschi's got about one yr left if we expect him to fill TJ's role, as people say he is doing. TJ was a 2nd round pick 11 yrs ago and we haven't drafted one thathigh since. None of our current b/u's have shown they could start at either spot. (Chatham came closest, but he's gone.) People say we can do without a 1st and 2nd down run-stopper, but I say it is key, Tedy needs to get back to his old role. Vrabel is too valuable at OLB to play in the middle.

Since you mention ILB and OLB separately, Who is our ILB b/u? Beisel? Claridge? Beisel can't tackle (he's really a 4-3 guy) and Claridge can't blitz. (TC comments- he had no moves.) Late rd draft Parham. Experienced 3-4 ILB run-stopper written all over him.

We have plenty of OLB b/u's. In fact, they all are. And, they are all mediocre, to date at least. 1st rd-draft Lawson. We'll have to now, anyway. He could break in in the Phyfer role, possibly take over for Colvin when his contract explodes next yr. If you're thinking he'll get redone,forget it.(He's a guy who mows his own lawn and collects the deposit on his soda bottles.) And don't forget, Wilfork or Warren (forget which) is going to want to get paid, too. And the following year the other. Enjoy Colvin while he's here.

Seymour staying is really great news, I'm glad it's worked out this way. But Hawk and Jarvis with #36 of Watson, Bunkley or Wroten would have been fine with me. We will need another stud LB soon.

 

[jczxohn1]

This sentence shows me you don't understand the Patriots 3-4 defense or BB's philosophy.

BB's philosophy is that the wars are won in the trenches. BB's defense has ALWAYS been about the lines. Yes, the LBs have to be athletic enough to move around in coverage, but strong enough to take on O-linemen at times. But they aren't the KEY to the defense.

Since Sey was re-signed (which is a good thing), you must be right. But if you think all LB's do in BB's defense is move around in coverage and take on the occassional OG, the you are the one who knows little.