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Sey and #21 for Hawk?

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by jczxohn1, Apr 9, 2006.

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  1. jczxohn1

    jczxohn1 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Would you do it?

    GB would. And Favre would play.

    The essence of BB's D is it's LB corps, IMO. That would give us Rosie, Vrabel, Tedy, and Hawk. And #52 to backup Jarvis. Plenty of mid-level slots to fill other needs.

    The reason I keep thinking about this is quality of our D-line. Going forward it will cost a lot to keep these three starters together (all potential Pro-Bowlers, IMO). Sey is the one with an experienced, more-than-adequate back-up. If BB sets a value on positional groups, Sey may not bust the cap, but he will certainly force a weak link on the line.

    To me, the only question is- Just how good is Hawk?
     
  2. stinkypete

    stinkypete In the Starting Line-Up

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    #24 Jersey

    At the very least, the deal would be Seymour for #5 straight up. In fact, I would demand #5 as well as either a 3rd rounder this year or a 2nd rounder next year. Accept any less and we would be getting hosed.
     
  3. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Seymour is a player that comes around once every 10 years on the DL.

    Having said that , I would trade him if we can't reach a deal with him. But I would not trade him straight up for a #5 first round pick. There would have to be a hell of alot more in the pot.

    Giving Seymour and our #21 would be just stupid.
     
  4. jczxohn1

    jczxohn1 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    GB wouldn't do it. They would have to have something to sweeten the pot for Favre. He doesn't care how good the D is. How about their #5 and their 2nd rd pick this yr?
     
  5. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    NO WAY. Hawk isn't worth 3 #1 draft picks. PERIOD. Why do I say 3#1s? Because of the 2 from the Franchise tag and the 1 you included.

    Sorry, this is just absurd.
     
  6. jczxohn1

    jczxohn1 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Sorry, please explain. If you trade a guy for a pick, how does that involve a Franchise tag?
     
  7. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams pfadmins PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    You might need to seek professional help, honestly trade Seymour, by all accounts the BEST DEFENSIVE LINEMAN IN THE NFL, for the ability to draft another standout Linebacker from THE Ohio State? Does anyone remember Katzenmoyer? I believe that his numbers at Ohio St are much better than Hawk's. A.J. Hawk may well be a good linebacker in the NFL, but to trade Seymour for him, BB and SP would have to have their head's examined. You can find a good LB, you have to draft a great DL.

    Re-sign Seymour or franchise him (he is going to be the highest paid DL either wya, so it is in his best interest to sign now and get the bonus money. If they really want Hawk, they can trade #21 and next year's #1 for him, throw in a thrid rd pick and that should do the trick.
     
  8. Flying Fungi

    Flying Fungi In the Starting Line-Up

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    If we do not extend Seymour, he will be franchised. If he is franchised, he will then be worth 2 #1s.

    Frankly, I think he is worth at least 2 #1s as is--so they'd have to offer a hell of a lot more than the #5 if they want Seymour...
     
  9. Chevy

    Chevy Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    We used a #6 for him. He is oft injured and could be a contract issue for anyone who wants him. If we were offered a #5 for him, that would be a gift.
     
  10. rookBoston

    rookBoston 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    #12 Jersey

    The deal would have to be #5, this year's 3rd and next year's 1st, in exchange for seymour to be remotely appealing.

    But then, BB would probably spend the pick on Mario Williams, in order to backfill for the big gaping hole we've left on the DL. Williams actually fits the profile for a BB DE to a T. The extra picks are compensation for the risk associated with "trading down" from Seymour to Williams.

    And, Green Bay should be willing to pay the cost, because if they want to win with Favre, they need to pay a premium for a veteran who is ready to contribute immediately at a Pro-bowl level.

    This trade could never happen. The GB fans would roast their ownership alive.
     
  11. bosfan

    bosfan On the Game Day Roster

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    #12 Jersey

    This is exactly why you are in 'draft board purgatory' and will remain there until you can resist these demonic ideas that are controlling you........... :D
     
  12. jczxohn1

    jczxohn1 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Firstly, ya, Sey and #21 for #5 and #36 from GB. If we can get more, good for us.

    If we trade him before the draft, doesn't that pass his current contract onto GB? Why the Franchise? Resigning him is GB's problem and the price they pay for the better of the deal. No one questions his worth. What I question is what he does to the DL price group. For their #5 and #36 we get Hawk and Watson, Bunkley, or Wroten to play behind Jarvis.

    Frankly, I don't like any of the LB scenarios after loosing Willie. Any of our current b/u's are going to have to do something I haven't seen them do yet,in order to be just adequate. None of the LB's available at #21 could start w/o some caveat or another. The LB corp is the KEY to BB's defense, a solid D line is only necessary.
     
  13. jczxohn1

    jczxohn1 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Thank you for your concern.:D
     
  14. jczxohn1

    jczxohn1 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Do we have the best QB in the NFL? the best RB? the best TE? the best NG? More importantly, 4 of the best LB's to play in the 3-4?

    And yes, I do remember Katz and I've always regretted he broke his neck.

    The only time the Pats have ever given up a future #1 pick was for Belicheck.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2006
  15. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    It doesn't matter where we drafted him. He could have beeen a complete bust.

    But instead, he is the best all around DL in the NFL. A #5 is just not enough.

    Don't forget, the day after the draft, all of the players chosen are unknows as to what they are going to be as NFL players. There ar plenty of top 5 players that turned out average or total bust.
     
  16. mavfan2390

    mavfan2390 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    if we did end up trading him, it would be for #2 to take mario williams,

    seymour >>> mario williams

    so the saints would have to throw in...lets say donte stallworth, and courtney watson just to make me bite,


    you seriously underestimate seymour, the vikings got #7 for moss, who is a serious headcase, and doesnt play a position that affect the game as much as DL,

    the saints are obviously ready to win now (they signed brees didnt they), so theyd want seymour
     
  17. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no.

    Nyet. Lo. Non. Nan-kaaaaa.

    Okay, now that I've channeled David Spade, let me explain the logic.

    Draft picks are either what they seem, or they are not. Hawk and the additional number 1 can be busts. BUSTS, I tell you. Mistakes. KiJana Carters. Ryan Leafs. Rick Mirers.

    Think about giving up Sey for Rick Mirer and KiJana Carter. It could happen.

    Sey is worth what it will likely cost to sign him long-term, and he is as close to the "Brady exception" as you can get on the defense. He makes everybody around him better, and with three guys doing four guys' jobs, that's an impressive trait. We won't go into Sey's "real" value too much further. I know people have challenged the concensus among coaches and players in the NFL, and, based on stats, claimed Sey is nothing special. I just plain disagree, based on what happens when he is in, versus what happens when he is not. Edge containment, disruption on passing downs, run stuffing, eating up O-linemen in the twos and threes, so LBs can make their plays - he does plenty to earn the rep. Unfortunately, it does not come back to him in statistical categories. You can only tell by watching the games.

    That said, you're introducing additional risk in exchange for cap dollars, a formula the Pats have worked for years now. The difficulty is, we might have a player here who's better judged on the Brady model than on, say, the McGinnest model.

    For my money, this sounds good, until you realize that the whole point of the high draft pick is to get a guy that might end up in Sey's category. He's that good.

    PFnV
     
  18. Ice Cold Bruschi

    Ice Cold Bruschi Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Once again you people blow my mind with how you devalue Seymour. Ask Philly if they could do it over again if they would have let Reggie White go.
     
  19. Feep_FLA

    Feep_FLA Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I love these threads and I entertain crazy trades in my head also, but Sey and our 21 for #5???? NO WAY this ever happens..... Sey and our 21 for #5 and GB's 2nd this year and their 1st next year..... Now your talking a fair trade and that would never happen also......:rocker:
     
  20. T-ShirtDynasty

    T-ShirtDynasty Moderator

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    Yeah, a sold D line is only necessary if you want to keep our LBs in a position to make plays. It works from the line on down.
     
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